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Mars
21-12-2005, 11:18
Still a bit early, but for the new Eldar Codex I'm wishing for the following for Saim-Hann jetbikes:

- Furious Charge.
- Hit & Run.

Any other idea's?

boogle
21-12-2005, 11:57
not a bad starting guess, possibly Evade as standard for Jetbike Squadrons

Mars
21-12-2005, 12:11
Thanks for moving this thread, I wasn't sure where to put it.

I'm doubting Evade, under the new rules they can already just "hover" over terrain, and I'm guessing they'll try to stick to the Universal Special rules, ie Skillfull Rider is probably in (not that a cover save matters much when you're turbo-boosting). In the same way I'm also expecting Hit-and-Run and May Always Make An Assault Move for Warp Spiders (Jetpacks seems better for this, but that would slow them down conciderably).

I am curious about the shurikats: currently they're just not very effective (a bit like Marine Bikers, whom got a price drop and access to grenades). I am hoping they'll make the Shuriken Cannon rending (3 shots at 18" or something, the Assault Cannon's little brother so to speak).

The Shuriken Cannon changes, if any, I think will be very important for Saim-Hann armies: Jetbikes, Vypers, Falcons, Wave Serpents, Wild Riders, ...

Although in that case Rending will probably overdo it, concdering the sheer number of Shuriken Cannons they can field.

So my conclusion: no rending for Shuriken Cannons in the new Eldar dex.

Okay than, how about them Shining Spears? A price drop (in points at least) will definitly be in order. I've read rumours on their laser lances becoming something la Hunting Lances: ignore armour saves would definitly make them a good unit, even at their current cost.

Mars
21-12-2005, 12:14
Although that would make the current Exarch model with a power weapon useless, so I'll doubt that.

Unless they change the models, which I haven't heard anything about. So it'll still be the old bike models I'll have to buy, which is okay with the new Guardian Sprue and Ebay.

Fallen Angel
21-12-2005, 12:20
They'll make shruiken cannons rending more than likely. Jetbikes need a drop in points really as they are pretty pants at the moment. Probably drop shining spears in points as well.

For Saim Hann overall, skilled riders USR obviously for everything. Hit and run would be a cool thing for Saim Hann only jetbikes.

Venomizer
21-12-2005, 13:02
hit and run would be very nice....

also either a reduction in cost for jetbikes or make them a more viable option

bryankia
21-12-2005, 14:41
I hope they pull the army out of the game all together. I play Eldar and I love the idea of the army, that said it lends itself to abuse. All it takes is one person playing this army to ruin the fun of a lot of people and give the entire Eldar race a bad name.

I do not want to start a war just voicing my opinion.

Respectfully,
Bryan

boogle
21-12-2005, 14:43
can you expand on why you think this, i've never seen a cheesy Saim Hann army

bryankia
21-12-2005, 15:25
@boogle

Thanks for not calling me out with a flame thrower :)

From the three Saim-Hann armies that I have seen they have north of ten star cannons with plenty of brightlances also. And the whole army does the hokey poky (Crystal targeting matrix). In the current rules if 25% of the board has terrain and a reasonable amount of that terrain is woods then you should be able to bring tremendous firepower down on your opponent with them having little to no recourse.
Don't get me wrong the army is not unstoppable but it is incredibly frustrating to play against. I also don’t like the all tank IG army.

Respectfully,
Bryan

Mars
21-12-2005, 15:27
That's the thing about the current Saim-Hann armies:

Either you take loads of Jetbikes, which is exactly what I mean to do, and you'll have an army that is less competitive than most.

Or you take loads of Vypers, usually with Starcannons.
18 Vypers with Starcannons are 1170 points, and if they get the first turn they'll throw out 54 Starcannon shots. The ultimate weapon against Marine armies, but as far as other armies go I'd think only Guard might have the slightest chance agianst it. And maybe Tau.

So either you take a lot of bikes and are playing an underpowerd army.
Or you take a lot of Vypers and are playing an overpowered army.

For the next dex, they might go with the "you can have no more Vyper units than you have Jetbike units"-mainstain rule.

boogle
21-12-2005, 18:43
then this army suffers from the malais that all Eldar players suffer from; the proliferation of Star Cannons, hopefully it'll be evened out in the new Codex

Fallen Angel
21-12-2005, 18:49
I hope they pull the army out of the game all together. I play Eldar and I love the idea of the army, that said it lends itself to abuse. All it takes is one person playing this army to ruin the fun of a lot of people and give the entire Eldar race a bad name.

I do not want to start a war just voicing my opinion.

Respectfully,
Bryan

meh its the same as IW in my book. One person takes the 9 obliterator,4 heavy support thing and then all IW players get branded the same.

Orbital
22-12-2005, 01:40
then this army suffers from the malais that all Eldar players suffer from; the proliferation of Star Cannons, hopefully it'll be evened out in the new Codex

Again with the Starcannon talk. :rolleyes:

Mad Doc Grotsnik
22-12-2005, 20:20
Being an occasional Saim Hann player, I hope they don't get too spoilt. They are a tough army to play with, and a frustrating one for your opponent.

I don't want too many new rules myself!

That being said, I am looking at selling my army on, to make way for my spanky new Tau!

Killgore
22-12-2005, 22:22
I just hope they'll keep to Eldar fluff this time and let Saim Han take more vehicle heavy support, like Falcons and Fire Prisms,

I remember reading somewhere saim han where renouned for their mass of jetbikes and armored fast vehicles

TomKamakazi
22-12-2005, 22:35
The chances are that there may not BE a Saim-Hann list in the next codex. I'd like to think it will be something akin to SM traits and IG docterins, but insted of "Swift as the Wind" we will have "Wind Host contingent" or some such.

I don't play Saim Hann, but I do love my jet bikes. I'd really like to see fielding a 6 man squad plus a Warlock be something more than a point sink.

Orbital
23-12-2005, 04:42
The chances are that there may not BE a Saim-Hann list in the next codex.

I, personally, haven't seen anything which supports the idea that Saim Hann are more likely to be killed off than any other Craftworld. I follow the rumors pretty rigorously, but obviously I'm not an expert. It just doesn't seem particularly likely to me, given how fluffy Jetbikes are to the Eldar army.

Grand Master Belial
23-12-2005, 12:43
All the craftworlds have a special trick to them.

Beil-Tan is an Aspect Warrior Craftworld
Alatioc is an Outcast (Ranger) Craftworld
Iyaden is the Undead (for lack of a better term) Craftworld
Ulthwe was the Psyker and Guardian Craftworld
Saim-Hann is the High Speed Craftworld

We still haven't seen the Exodites or Feral Eldar and the Harlequins have failed to make a reappearance since the death of the Citadel Journal. Though if GW hits the Eldar like they did with the Marines, we may see a a lot more easily convertable Eldar miniatures with little details that can be used to separate the Craftworlds besides their army lists and paint jobs.

Belial out.

Wraithbored
23-12-2005, 12:56
All the craftworlds have a special trick to them.

Beil-Tan is an Aspect Warrior Craftworld
Alatioc is an Outcast (Ranger) Craftworld
Iyaden is the Undead (for lack of a better term) Craftworld
Ulthwe was the Psyker and Guardian Craftworld
Saim-Hann is the High Speed Craftworld

We still haven't seen the Exodites or Feral Eldar and the Harlequins have failed to make a reappearance since the death of the Citadel Journal. Though if GW hits the Eldar like they did with the Marines, we may see a a lot more easily convertable Eldar miniatures with little details that can be used to separate the Craftworlds besides their army lists and paint jobs.

Belial out.
I am highly sceptical as Eldar are not space marines... that being said I hope that Saim-Hann stays the way it is, it's a great list and can be very balanced(you take SOME Vypers and SOME jetbikes and voila.)

Dark Muse
23-12-2005, 14:05
I am highly sceptical as Eldar are not space marines... that being said I hope that Saim-Hann stays the way it is, it's a great list and can be very balanced(you take SOME Vypers and SOME jetbikes and voila.)


True but then neither are the IG. All armies can be balanced, and most abused. Saim Hann are a little harder to abuse and still be usable as an all comers army though.

It would be nice to see something like the chapters or doctrines for Eldar. I am not holding my breath though.

heretic
23-12-2005, 14:40
I am highly sceptical as Eldar are not space marines... that being said I hope that Saim-Hann stays the way it is, it's a great list and can be very balanced(you take SOME Vypers and SOME jetbikes and voila.)
it may be sometimes abused, but spending over $500 on 1500 points makes them rarer than pre-plastic IG

Grand Master Belial
23-12-2005, 16:37
I am highly sceptical as Eldar are not space marines... that being said I hope that Saim-Hann stays the way it is, it's a great list and can be very balanced(you take SOME Vypers and SOME jetbikes and voila.)

Are they much different in terms of background? Each craftworld is unique and the Eldar that chose to join each had a certain idea as to what they thought the Eldar lifestyle should be to prevent another fall. Saim-han were the least civilized of the 'good' Eldar that hailed from the now Crone Worlds. Even the symbols of the Craftworlds hold certain meanings that reflect in their way of life.

How is that not similar to a Space Marine Chapter like the White Scars or Blood Angels?

Belial

Wraithbored
24-12-2005, 01:42
Are they much different in terms of background? Each craftworld is unique and the Eldar that chose to join each had a certain idea as to what they thought the Eldar lifestyle should be to prevent another fall. Saim-han were the least civilized of the 'good' Eldar that hailed from the now Crone Worlds. Even the symbols of the Craftworlds hold certain meanings that reflect in their way of life.

How is that not similar to a Space Marine Chapter like the White Scars or Blood Angels?

Belial
I was merely being sarcastic at the fact that GW literally drowns space marines with support and new releases and not to mention web and of course White Dwarf space, I should have added a smiley. Hope that cleared it up a bit