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View Full Version : My IG Veteran Squad with Shotguns - Which Special Weapons should i give them



boogle
02-05-2009, 18:44
Just a quick one this time, i have been putting my IG together today, and have half built my 2nd Veterans squad, my 1st squad has 3 Plasma Guns, Lascannon, Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon, the second squad is currently 5 armed with Shoguns (for the cool, rather than effective factor), with the Veteran Sergeant also having a Power fist, so my question to you guys is: what special weapons would you give them?

Plasma Guns
Pros: BS 4 leading to statistically more shots hitting, adds some hard hitting power to the squad
Cons: Duplication of the special weapons in the 1st Veteran squad, something i do not like doing beyond Infantry Squads, lack of medic could lead to lots of self kills, loss of Shotgun shots

Melta Guns
Pros: As above, also allows the Squad to take out Heavy Armour if Demolitions doctrine is taken.
Cons: will force a re-jig of Special Weapons squads i have already built up (does that sound like a pathetic reason?), if used against armour, makes shotguns redundant.

Grenade Launchers
Pros: Good all round weapon, with good range, being Assault Weapons, allows me to thin out light/medium infantry should i wish to charge, not overly expensive.
Cons: already have a whole platoon armed with Grenade Launchers, so face the duplication problem

Sniper Rifles
Pros: good BS should cause at least 1 pinning test per turn, with possibility of rending meaning even heavy infantry would be a bit wary.
Cons: being a heavy weapon reduces total squad effectiveness, only have 2 models with Sniper Rifles built.

3 Flamers or 2 Flamers/1 Heavy Flamer
Pros: allows me to thin out light infantry, denying them their much needed cover saves, doesn't rely on BS to hit.
Cons: Possible waste of Veterans BS4, extremely short range means the unit will be assaulted in the enemies turn, so may require the Forward Sentries to be purchased.

Heavy Weapon (Any type)
Pros: Adds a bit of kick to the squad
Cons: restricts mobility

Please note:
I do not have any Chimeras and Valkyries, nor do i have the money to purchase them at this time, so please don't factor them into your responses.

The 1st Veteran squad is all metal hence it's composition, so although it's a pretty expensive unit to field, it won't be changed.

Anyone got any ideas on how to equip this squad?

Many thanks

EVIL INC
02-05-2009, 19:11
Haveing the unit armed with shyotguns shows that it should be a highly mobile assault style unit. Flamers would match it well as would meltas. Plasma guns being rapid fire instead of assault will mean that you wont be able to assault if you shoot it. Heavy weapons means you will be too static to effectively use your assault style weapons.
Personally, I would go with a flamer and 2 meltas. The flamer to hit enemy in cover and hel whittle down "hoard" targets and the meltas to help with the "tougher/better armored targets as well as help against vehicles.
Comebine that with the camo and scout and you have a decent unit.

Orcboy_Phil
02-05-2009, 19:24
I'd say give them Melta's. They give you an anti-tank role or anti-heavy infantry roll. Also you can still assualt after shooting them off. The same goes with Flamers. There a very good way of taking care of thinning out the ranks before the assualt. As for grenade launcers; Whilst I love them there a little too much of a jack for the focussed role a vetrans unit should be filling.

BuFFo
02-05-2009, 19:26
Meltas all the way. If not, then maybe 2 meltas and a flamer. Great all arounder unit.

boogle
02-05-2009, 19:36
Should i go 2 Meltas and 1 Heavy Flamer or 2 Meltas and a normal Flamer?

eek107
02-05-2009, 19:39
Agrred with the above, meltas and/or flamers would compliment the shotguns nicely. I'd be more inclined to go heavier on the meltas, but that would depend how much anti-tank you already have.

boogle
02-05-2009, 19:44
what I have built up is:

Company Command Squad (50)
Commander – Laspistol, Power Sword (10)
Veterans – Medic (30), Regimental Standard (15), Vox Caster (5), Melta Gun (10)
120

Infantry Platoon Alpha
Command Squad (30)
Commander – Boltgun (2), Power Fist (15)
Veterans – Platoon Standard (15), Vox Caster (5), 2 Sniper Rifles (10), Medi-Pack (30)
107

Squad 1 (50) – Vox Caster (5), Grenade Launcher (5)
60

Squad 2 (50) – Vox Caster (5), Grenade Launcher (5)
60

Squad 3 (50) – Vox Caster (5), Grenade Launcher (5)
60

Squad 4 (50) – Vox Caster (5), Grenade Launcher (5), Bolt Pistol (2)
62

Squad 5 (50) – Vox Caster (5), Grenade Launcher (5), Plasma Pistol (10)
70

Special Weapons Squad (35)
3 Plasma Guns (45)
80


Infantry Platoon Beta (30)
Commander – Power fist (15)
Veterans - Platoon Standard (15), Vox Caster (5), Flamer (5), Heavy Flamer (20)
90

Squad 1 (50) – Vox Caster (5), Flamer (5), Bolt Pistol (2)
62

Squad 2 (50) – Vox Caster (5), Flamer (5), Power Sword (10)
70

Squad 3 (50) – Vox Caster (5), Flamer (5)
60

Squad 4 (50) – Vox Caster (5), Flamer (5)
60

Squad 5 (50) – Vox Caster (5), Flamer (5)
60

Special Weapons Squad 1 (35)
3 Melta Guns (30)
65

Special Weapons Squad 2 (35)
3 Melta Guns (30)
65

Veteran Squad 1 (70)
Veterans – 3 Plasma Guns (45), Lascannon (20), Plasma Pistol (10), Power Weapon (10), Vox Caster (5)
160

catbarf
02-05-2009, 21:20
Haveing the unit armed with shyotguns shows that it should be a highly mobile assault style unit. Flamers would match it well as would meltas. Plasma guns being rapid fire instead of assault will mean that you wont be able to assault if you shoot it. Heavy weapons means you will be too static to effectively use your assault style weapons.
Personally, I would go with a flamer and 2 meltas. The flamer to hit enemy in cover and hel whittle down "hoard" targets and the meltas to help with the "tougher/better armored targets as well as help against vehicles.
Comebine that with the camo and scout and you have a decent unit.

This post for the win. Assault troops need assault weapons, and meltaguns are a surefire way to poke save-denying holes in MEQs, as well as armor.

boogle
02-05-2009, 21:24
I'm with you guys on the Meltaguns, just want feedback on Flamer or Heavy Flamer to compliment them

Gen.Steiner
02-05-2009, 21:42
Heavy Flamer. It's more expensive, but is still Assault and hits harder, too. My own Veteran units are set up as follows:

7 Veterans with Shotguns, 2 with Meltas, 1 with Flamer.
5 Veterans with Lasrifles, 2 with Grenade Launchers, 1 with Plasma gun, rocket launcher. Forward Scouts
6 Veterans with Shotguns, 2 with Meltas, 1 with Heavy Flamer, 1 with Demolition Charge. Demolitions

ehlijen
02-05-2009, 21:53
Demo charge :D

It's assault and just plain fun.

boogle
02-05-2009, 22:16
Gen Steiner - you can actually have 7 Shotgun toting Vets, 2 Meltas, 1 Heavy Flamer and 1 Demo Charge as the Demo Charge is in addition to his equipment

Ehlijen - i'm tempted especially with the twin Melta Gun, it would allow me to assault any vehicle that they don't kill, if i had my company command squad in range, i could use the 'Bring it Down' order on them as well for lots of nastiness against either a vehicle or an MC

RichBlake
03-05-2009, 13:41
I'd have to rule out Plasma Guns on the basis that they are rapid fire. No point in taking assault weapons as the standard weapons then taking rapid fire weapons as the special weapons.

I actually find that meltaguns + Target On My Command is generally better then bring it down. Mainly for vehicles that are obscured.

Also I did find out one fun trick, Bring It Down gives you a twin-linked Demo-Charge. Awesome!

boogle
03-05-2009, 13:45
I'd have to rule out Plasma Guns on the basis that they are rapid fire. No point in taking assault weapons as the standard weapons then taking rapid fire weapons as the special weapons.

I actually find that meltaguns + Target On My Command is generally better then bring it down. Mainly for vehicles that are obscured.

Also I did find out one fun trick, Bring It Down gives you a twin-linked Demo-Charge. Awesome!

I was going to post on that last night, but the server went down, how wold that actually work?

Orcboy_Phil
03-05-2009, 13:48
The same as all twin linked blast weapons. You get to reroll the scatter dice.

freddieyu
03-05-2009, 13:53
I also have vets with shotguns, and I have always given them a flamer and 2 meltas. Now with the option to have a heavy flamer, I will get the heavy flamer as long as I can afford it.

They have done well for me, and will continue to do so.

boogle
03-05-2009, 13:57
Well after lunch i should have my 2nd Vet Squad finished

RichBlake
03-05-2009, 14:04
The same as all twin linked blast weapons. You get to reroll the scatter dice.

Well, you get to re-roll the Scatter Dice and the 2D6.

I think twin-linking a demo charge changes it froma 33% chance of hitting directly to a 66% chance? I'm not brilliant at the whole mathammer thing though.

SonofUltramar
03-05-2009, 14:22
Have to agree with the whole two Meltagun and Heavy Flamer option, i've got that twice in my mechanised army and have to say I feel pretty confident about taking the fight to the enemy.

Nostro
03-05-2009, 14:25
I think twin-linking a demo charge changes it froma 33% chance of hitting directly to a 66% chance? I'm not brilliant at the whole mathammer thing though.

Actually 56% ;)

Snotteef
03-05-2009, 15:44
I'm with the 2 meltaguns and 1 flamer crowd. I'd go basic flamer. Heavy flamer is nice, but the points are steep. I don't think it's worth quadruple the cost of a basic flamer.

boogle
03-05-2009, 15:45
The ability to negate all but marine saves is worth the extra 15 points IMHO

SonofUltramar
03-05-2009, 16:03
The ability to negate all but marine saves is worth the extra 15 points IMHO

Pretty much what i was going to say, that along with wounding most opponents on at worst a 3 is not to bad IMHO

RichBlake
03-05-2009, 16:04
Actually 56% ;)

I DID say that i wasn't good at the mathammer :p

Still, 56% chance of automatically hitting plus the chance it'll scatter 4 inches (i.e nothing) is good.

Snotteef
03-05-2009, 16:13
Heavy Flamers are good, no doubt, but I can't see myself paying that many points on a single guardsman who has to be less than 10" away to make use of it. It's a good choice for some, but I like to keep my guys cheap.

Also, the increase in AP is HIGHLY situational. Most troops in the game have either 3+ or better OR 5+ or worse. I'm sure it pays for itself when you do play against Tau or hit a unit of 'ard boyz, but it's just too situational for my liking. To each their own.

RichBlake
03-05-2009, 16:24
Also, the increase in AP is HIGHLY situational. Most troops in the game have either 3+ or better OR 5+ or worse. I'm sure it pays for itself when you do play against Tau or hit a unit of 'ard boyz, but it's just too situational for my liking. To each their own.

Stormtroopers
Veterans with Carapace Armour
Command Squads with Carapace Armour
Scouts
Black Templar Initiates
Fire Warriors
Path Finders
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
Aspect Warriors of all sorts bar Striking Scorpions and Dark Reapers
Probably some Dark Eldar stuff
Probably some nid stuff

As you can tell that list isn't exhaustive but heavy flamers are really useful. Also don't underestimate the difference between wounding T4 on 2s instead of 3s, plus it can actually glance rear armour of vehicles and hurt T8 creatures.

It's not as specific as you think.

Snotteef
03-05-2009, 16:32
I wasn't implying that my list was exhaustive, but I still think that it's situational. The only troops on that list that are army mainstays are Firewarriors, Inq Stormtroopers (sometimes), and Dire Avengers (sometimes). You're certainly much less likely to encounter any great number of them than of the saves towards the ends of the spectrum.

Like I said, I get that people like them and they can be quite useful, but for me (my army and my play style), they're too expensive for what they do.

RichBlake
03-05-2009, 18:35
Like I said, I get that people like them and they can be quite useful, but for me (my army and my play style), they're too expensive for what they do.

That's fair enough, if people find something that does or doesnt work with them then I wont attempt too hard to change their mind!

Personally I'd have made them 15 points each, but sadly I don't write codexes :p

victorpofa
03-05-2009, 20:20
I too am making a shotgun toting unit of Veterans with a Power Fist, and intend to use 3 meltaguns. After reading this I might swap a meltagun for a flamer instead.

Now to order the Forgeworld shotgun torsos...

boogle
03-05-2009, 21:03
the sad thing for me is the fact i'll have 4 FW Shotgun torsos spare now, as i casn't give them to my Sergeants :(

RichBlake
03-05-2009, 21:27
the sad thing for me is the fact i'll have 4 FW Shotgun torsos spare now, as i casn't give them to my Sergeants :(

Make more Veterans, never know when you may need extra shotguns. If you usually have 4 veteran squads with 3 meltaguns in each you may decide to drop 4 meltaguns to get the 40 points you need for a Commissar and then you need 4 Veterans with shotguns.

boogle
03-05-2009, 21:38
Make more Veterans, never know when you may need extra shotguns. If you usually have 4 veteran squads with 3 meltaguns in each you may decide to drop 4 meltaguns to get the 40 points you need for a Commissar and then you need 4 Veterans with shotguns.

There is that i suppose

EVIL INC
03-05-2009, 22:00
OR, you could just ship them to me. I'll evenpay for the shipping if your in the U.S. ;)

Latro_
03-05-2009, 22:02
Meltas, Bs4 no brainer.