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View Full Version : Is 2 squads of Biker Nobz cheesy?



redbaron998
03-05-2009, 21:15
I want your serious opinon, in 2k having 2 squads of Biker nobz with 2 Warbosses. Is it cheesy?

aka when i put it down would you give me the stink eye? Keep in mind it is gonna be about 1000points for the 2 squads and bosses.

tacoo
03-05-2009, 21:17
not so much as long as you dont abuse the wound allocation rule.

Corpse
03-05-2009, 21:22
They are shockingly lashy and yummy for large basis of units that are fragile and run when you charge them, making you a sitting duck the following turn or rather, the following shooting phase.

Nob bikes remove the many vehicles you can have by their sheer cost. That means each of them must be as tough as a tank against anti tank firepower. Be careful, on average per 700 pts (or full nob squad, average cost) people can pack 10 instant death weapons or more that strike at the same time, ahead of you or shoot you with them.

People whine about them because they buy twn boxes of models, slap them together and play, face it and whine because they didnt buy the models that could get rid of them.

Vaktathi
03-05-2009, 21:41
I want your serious opinon, in 2k having 2 squads of Biker nobz with 2 Warbosses. Is it cheesy?

aka when i put it down would you give me the stink eye? Keep in mind it is gonna be about 1000points for the 2 squads and bosses.

Many armies simply can't deal with the amount of damage mitigation these units have. For instance, against bolter fire, for every nob biker killed (assuming no wound allocation gimmicks to spread wounds around) 12 normal boyz would die. When you add in the wound allocation gimmicks, you'd need enough bolter fire to kill 132 boyz before one biker falls if you can spread the wounds around to each model before another would take a second wound.

While this can be mitigated by using heavier weapons, in practice you end up needing to use anti-tank weapons to kill nob bikers, and most armies don't have enough of such weapons to stop nob biker units before they eat half their army or more, especially with the potentials for multiple assaults that Bikers offer, and there is almost nothing (save for maybe a ten man kitted khornate terminator unit or several of charging dreadnoughts) that can stand up to it in close combat.


Granted, nob biker units are expensive, but their durability coupled with their speed (watching nob bikers hit an IG gunline and get into 4 seperate units with one charge on turn 2 is ugly) and killyness make them more than worth their cost. Many armies are simply incapable of dealing with those units.

Hicks
03-05-2009, 21:45
I will be the one to say it, yes I think it would be cheesy. Anyone who isn't prepared for it (and even then) will get steam rolled and probably never want to play you again.

The_Outsider
03-05-2009, 22:40
I'm not so sure nob bikers are broken without the wound allocation malarcky - they are tough (so a 700 point unit should be) but they aren't so ungodly tough that baneblades need backup when dealing with them.

boogle
03-05-2009, 22:48
Yeah i'd face it - with a Squadron of Demolishers

NotoriousFat
03-05-2009, 22:50
not so much as long as you dont abuse the wound allocation rule.

Good god are you right, I played a tournament at my LGS yesterday. We had a few people but people have a hard on for nurgle daemons so I brought the nob biker list and use the wound allotment to full capacity. I was so amazed to see how much damage 1 unit can do.

I won that tournament and got a free battleforce box. I was skeptical because my first opinion of the list was like, look, an ork army without 200 models on the table. How can it win?

Man was I wrong. :angel:

Lord Cook
03-05-2009, 22:51
Even without wound allocation abuse, do you really need two squads? Why not just limit it to one?

Legionary
03-05-2009, 23:08
You're taking two squads of the hardest and most commonly complained about units in all of 40K. As Lord Cook says, why are you doing this?

I can't think of an answer to that question that isn't essentially "because they're phenomenally powerful" and therefore yes, having two squads of Nob Bikers - making up nearly half your army in points - is horrendously cheesy. If/when you win using it, don't expect your opponents to have a fun game or want to play you again.

Logarithm Udgaur
03-05-2009, 23:50
Yes, yes it is.

Qldkiwi
04-05-2009, 00:07
Each to their own I say, whilst being an Ork player I want to try a unit of Biker Nobz it wont be a huge unit, and it'll only be one unit.

I the 2 units cheesy? Maybe in some peoples eyes, but then going up against 2 monoliths like I did yesterday could b seen the same way, as can many other set ups from various armies. Personally I prefer to go up against hard lists and work out ways to beat them.

Corpse
04-05-2009, 01:30
I wont complain, generally because I use armies that are very close combat oriented. Mounted in transports in mass and capable of slaying 3 nobs alone with shooting per unit jumping out of their transport.

Not to mention I tank shock two vehicles bwteen two of their damn bikes (like I have before) and pin the darn unit for a turn forcing them to charge one of the tanks that oved over 6" previously. Just have to wedgie between one lone bike and the rest of the squad, he cant back out because of the 1" distance rule while he's 2" from his mate, that 1" wedge is forced between the coherency gap and he cant move without charging.

Thats if I dont have lash. Or use zerkers (that ironiclly removee 2 nobs just by looking at them funny when they charge)... These guys are nothing~~~.

People whine because they are speedy and are durable against small arms fire. I mean heck, arm two chaos lords on bikes, 3 units of chaos bikers totalling the same cost as ork nob bikes and their two HQ's and see who wins, icons included.... (You would be surprised, orks aint much)

Hell even toss them against deathwing, you will find them outnumbered, out-melee'd and outgunned. Only the gunline players really bark about this....

Johnnyfrej
04-05-2009, 03:38
I want your serious opinon, in 2k having 2 squads of Biker nobz with 2 Warbosses. Is it cheesy?

aka when i put it down would you give me the stink eye? Keep in mind it is gonna be about 1000points for the 2 squads and bosses.
I would say in the majority of cases yes it would be cheese. If you are taking them to be an a@#hole and play a "I-win" army you are no better than them Fantasy players with their Deathstar units.

chrismp_123
04-05-2009, 05:18
I could care less. If it is in the rules, play it! I wouldnt personally but I dont care what my opponent brings to the table.

kultz
04-05-2009, 05:33
Is it cheesy?

Well.

If, let's say, fielding 30 hammer terminators is cheesy, then is fielding 29 of these little bastards any different?

Not really.

Nothing concrete stops you from playing the list. Play to win and all that jazz.

Nothing concrete stops your opponents from really not liking you. Sportsmanship and all that jazz.

Your choice, bro.

backslide
04-05-2009, 06:06
yes is the short answer

Johan Chill
04-05-2009, 06:17
Why spend the money and run the risk?

Bellygrub
05-05-2009, 19:03
I get told that one squad of nobs on foot is cheesey. I wouldn't dream of putting them on bikes :eek:

Vaktathi
05-05-2009, 19:16
I get told that one squad of nobs on foot is cheesey. I wouldn't dream of putting them on bikes :eek:

Nobz on foot are cheesy? I'd hate to play against the opponent who thought that. It's only when they get superfast with overlapping and stackable saves coupled with T5 and all the wound allocation gimmicks that they start to get dumb. Basic nobs, or even mega armored nobz I don't think are that abusive at all.

The_Outsider
05-05-2009, 20:16
I'm still not impressed with the nob bikers o' death army anyway - I played against such a list recently and obliterated most of it by turn 3.

The secret to beating it is A) to have a highly mobile force and B) go second.

As far as I can see there is only one tactic the nob biker army can pull that makes them truly horrendous to stop (even with wound allocation fun).

Vaktathi
05-05-2009, 20:18
I'm still not impressed with the nob bikers o' death army anyway - I played against such a list recently and obliterated most of it by turn 3.

The secret to beating it is A) to have a highly mobile force and B) go second.

As far as I can see there is only one tactic the nob biker army can pull that makes them truly horrendous to stop (even with wound allocation fun).

for those that don't play an army of fast skimmers with a bajillion dark lances and blasters, this is easier said than done.

The_Outsider
05-05-2009, 20:26
for those that don't play an army of fast skimmers with a bajillion dark lances and blasters, this is easier said than done.

Thing is, it wasn't the lances and stuff that did it (though the AP2 helped).

Think about it - the nob bikers will turboboost fairly close turn 1 - what else can they do, take potshots with their guns?

This is where the mobility kicks in - you get right close to them (who cares about giving the bikers cover saves) and dump all your army into them - you will kill a unit if you have a balanced force.

Unless both units turboboosted together in the same spot (which I think is unlikely - it is better off when you are so tough to divide yourself up and eat the enemy on as many fronts as you can) you can cut the nobs in half and are more than likely far enough away from the other unit to massively cutdown return losses.

This isn't to say they aren't dead hard - but the list can easily be crippled with a bit of thought.

Only the good players who do not use the nobs as battering rams will stand upto this (and they are in the minority).

Vaktathi
05-05-2009, 20:47
I've had lots of trouble with my CSM's, dumping 6 oblits and 3 CSM's squads+charge worth of pain into them and they still come out destroying everything. On average, that's say 11 wounds after pistols+flamers+lascannon (assuming 4+ cover save here) +charge, half of those out of CC, the bikers hit back, on average killing 5 CSM's with powerklaws and a couple more with the other attacks, and bam they've still won combat against 30 CSM's, and that's not including the biker boss.

T5+the stacking and overlapping saves with the malarky of wound allocation, coupled with their incredible killyness let them eat through a lot and take a butlload of hits.

Giganthrax
05-05-2009, 20:50
I want your serious opinon, in 2k having 2 squads of Biker nobz with 2 Warbosses. Is it cheesy?
It depends; do you defeat your opponent or do you lose?

If you defeat your opponent, a cheese caller will inevitably say you're playing a cheesy list. If he wins, he probably won't say anything.

Cheese is whatever makes a cheese caller lose. You shouldn't worry about that, to be honest. Just play what you like.

The_Outsider
05-05-2009, 20:55
stuff about wounds

11 sounds awfully low - 1500 point army shooting then charging a unit even as tough as nob bikers should easily dish out more than that by the end of the turn.


T5+the stacking and overlapping saves with the malarky of wound allocation, coupled with their incredible killyness let them eat through a lot and take a butlload of hits.

Of course, that never was in dispute.

Bunnahabhain
05-05-2009, 21:02
Yes, 2 units of biker nobs will be cheesy 99% of the time. If you've left out the warboss, so they're not scoring, and are not playing the wound allocation games/abuse, then you're aren't being too bad, but A) you're still likely to be viewed with some disgust, by those who don't understand the full problem with them, and B) you're doing yourself out of a brokenly good unit, by merely taken a good one.

If you want to take two cheesed out Nob bikers, I'll happily take 9 Russes, for about the same points, and hit them with instant death, FNP denying ordnance blasts, and still feel as if I have the morally superior position- at least Russes have some weakness.

Biker nobs are just as bad as 4th ed Holo falcons. They will go where they want, fast, and require an inordinate amount of firepower to stop.

Vaktathi
05-05-2009, 21:17
11 sounds awfully low - 1500 point army shooting then charging a unit even as tough as nob bikers should easily dish out more than that by the end of the turn. Using my 1750pt army as an example

3 10 CSM's, 2x flamer, Champ w/PW, IoCG w/Rhino
3x2 Oblits
DP, Khorne, Wings

2x6 variously kitted Termi's (almost always held in reserve to deep strike onto advancing icons)

Using the Oblits and CSM units (1155pts worth of stuff)

6x Lascannon (6*2/3*5/6*1/2cover)=1.66 models killed (lets round up to 4 wounds from 2 dead dudes) That's not taking into account 3+ turboboost.

24 Bolt Pistol shots (24*2/3*1/3*1/2 Save*1/2 FNP)=1.33 wounds

6x Flamer (assuming 3 under each template, they have large bases and tend to be spread out) =(18*1/3*1/2 save*1/2 FNP)=1.5

Charge Attacks= 3*27=81 (81*1/2*1/3*1/2*1/2)=3.375 wounds
Charge Powerweapon Attacks=3*4=12 (12*.5*1/3*2/3)=1.33 wounds

4+1.33+3.375+1.33=10.038 wounds, 2 for sure dead nobs, leaving a potentialy 8 scattered wounds.

CSM's did 4.705 wounds on in CC.

Orks hit back.

lets say 4 powerklaws and 3 'uge choppa's (not uncommon) for 7 models hitting back (assume one nob died outright due to failed saves from other previous attacks).

'huge choppa wounds (assuming Waagh banner, again not uncommon)=(12*2/3*5/6*1/3)=2.22 wounds
Powerklaw attacks (12*2/3*5/6)=6.66 wounds

4.705 wounds to 8.88 wounds, Orks win combat.

That's after 3 units of CSM's shot and charged them, and 6 oblits shot at them. Bikers are down maybe a third of their model count and have just tied up the bulk of that army in a CC fight it's not going to win and is forcing Ld tests at -4, which even with rerolls is not good.

monopeludo
05-05-2009, 21:24
Yes, it is cheesy. You paid for your minis, you spent time painting them and they are legal... but it does't make them any cheeseless. I play for fun not JUST to win. Therefore I would play against you, lose without having any fun and wont play against you again.


The secret to beating it is A) to have a highly mobile force and B) go second.

a) Most armies are not highly mobile.
b) Its just a matter of luck.

Imagine your young brother/nephew/son is beaten in school by 3 boys twice as big as him. He asks you, What can I do? And you answer, well you have to wear an armour in school, become twice as big as you are now and grow an extra new pair of arms. :D
Just kidding, because those bikers are really hard to get rid of.

vyper
05-05-2009, 21:28
Yes its cheesy and I wouldn't want to see that opposite me in a pick-up game. If its in a tournament then fair play, and if its a casual game between friends, then I'd want a heads up first.

Phazael
05-05-2009, 21:48
For the record, CC Nidzilla rapes this army, as does anything with the word "lash" in it. Expect to get a poop chute expansion against Guard's numerous "no cover save" templates of butt rape, as well. Its a fad army that will peter out, now that the newer books all have built in affordable counters. The worst effect of this list has been the wide introduction of AP4 no cover save ordinance weapons to balance against its existance, making less rescent armies that depend on cover saves for survival (ie Tau, balanced Eldar, and foot slogging guard (did this army really need another kick in the nuts?)) a complete waste of time to play. The best effect of this list has been exposing how outright retarded the 5th edition wound allocation rules are.

MrBims
05-05-2009, 21:50
It depends; do you defeat your opponent or do you lose?

If you defeat your opponent, a cheese caller will inevitably say you're playing a cheesy list. If he wins, he probably won't say anything.

Cheese is whatever makes a cheese caller lose. You shouldn't worry about that, to be honest. Just play what you like.

Thanks for the garbage advice. I'm sure that following this play philosophy and losing all my gaming friends because of my unwillingness to play the game without exploitative power lists will help me to enjoy the game more.

Neftus
05-05-2009, 22:58
Unless you totally love the idea of Nobs on bikes, I can't imagine any possible reason for playing it other than "The internet says it wins tourneys, so I'm going to take it."

-It's not fluffy
-It's not tactically challenging (even in 40k's standards)
-It's not easy to model properly
-Most players don't like playing against it, win or lose

Thus, if you're worried about it being cheesey, you've just scratched out the possible reason to take it in the first place.

The_Outsider
05-05-2009, 22:59
a) Most armies are not highly mobile.

Only 2 forces can truly claim to not be mobile - everyone else can easily do it.

Mech play has reigned supreme for 3 editions now, yet still warseer refuses to accept it.



b) Its just a matter of luck.

Going second gives you no real disadvantage and just about every advantage you are going to get - no nob biker player would typically want to go second. I would honestly be surprised if they did to be honest.

Giganthrax
06-05-2009, 00:30
Thanks for the garbage advice. I'm sure that following this play philosophy and losing all my gaming friends because of my unwillingness to play the game without exploitative power lists will help me to enjoy the game more.
Well, then probably the best course of action for you is to simply ask your "friends" what things they don't want you to put in your list. Better still, let them write your lists.

This might sound ridiculous, but really, there's no other way to please a cheese-caller. And that's obviously what you're worrying about; pleasing cheese-callers. Otherwise, whatever makes you win or renders you inconvenient for the cheese-caller will be called cheese. You can't really avoid it. :)

njfed
06-05-2009, 00:55
If the tournament is just 12 guys at a local store it is very cheesy. If it was a GT it is not...because there are only four lists played at GTs and half of them are two nob biker lists.

smokingmonkee
06-05-2009, 01:18
Unless you totally love the idea of Nobs on bikes, I can't imagine any possible reason for playing it other than "The internet says it wins tourneys, so I'm going to take it."

-It's not fluffy
-It's not tactically challenging (even in 40k's standards)
-It's not easy to model properly
-Most players don't like playing against it, win or lose

Thus, if you're worried about it being cheesey, you've just scratched out the possible reason to take it in the first place.

How is it not fluffy? What if you are playing a Kult of Speed?
Also the fact that it is difficult to model makes it a challenge for those who like to convert.

I occasionally run one but it's only seven strong and not cheesed out for wounds. But I do think two is a bit much and just not that much fun.

BladeWalker
06-05-2009, 01:31
If you have to ask it probably is. I always make my lists with "would I want to play against that" in mind.

Reinholt
06-05-2009, 01:43
This is an interesting question to me because you have to carefully define what you mean by cheesy.

Some options that might be relevant:

1 - Taking the best units in the codex in order to stack the odds in my favor to win

In this case, there's no question it's cheesy. Full stop.

2 - Taking units that make most of my opponents who do not come with highly optimized lists not have fun playing against me.

In this case, it's also cheesy.

3 - Taking whatever I want to kick ass, because everyone else I play with does the same and it's expected.

In this case, you're fine.


The question is knowing the playing field. When I build an army, I usually have two builds for it. The "fun" build, which is what I play against people who aren't playing like they are in a GT and that is created specifically to use some of the units that I just happen to like, or to follow a theme I think is interesting... and the "<expletive deleted> you" build, which is usually something truly heinous, such as the tri-falcon list I would use when someone pissed me off in 4th ed.

Double Biker Nobz is in that second category of list. If you play it against other people who aren't playing that list, don't expect a positive reaction. Is it legal? Yes, of course.

Will it make you friends or help you develop a good reputation? Not unless your gaming group plays all-out competitive lists all the time, no.

Neftus
06-05-2009, 01:54
How is it not fluffy? What if you are playing a Kult of Speed?
Also the fact that it is difficult to model makes it a challenge for those who like to convert.

I occasionally run one but it's only seven strong and not cheesed out for wounds. But I do think two is a bit much and just not that much fun.

I'm referring to taking two squads.

Obviously a single nob squad in Kult of Speed isn't bad (they never would have put the option in the codex if the unit could never exist), however no Kult of Speed list would contain 20 pimped out nob bikers with doks and 2 Warboss bikers that make up 75% of the army.

You would have to bend the fluff around the army, which means fluff isn't the main reason for running the list. That's not always a bad thing, there are many reasons to run a list other than fluff. However, the point I'm trying to make is that there is simply only one real reason to run dual biker nobs (other than some bizarre nob biker obsession, but that's not very realistic)

kultz
06-05-2009, 02:54
If it is oh sooooo easy to defeat the Nob bikers, then please, take any army, and work your magic to defeat the Nob bikers.

Please.

Do it, take it to a tournament, take it to your club, share your magic advice during someone else's game, make 'em win.

BuFFo
06-05-2009, 05:34
I want your serious opinon, in 2k having 2 squads of Biker nobz with 2 Warbosses. Is it cheesy?

Your army allows it right?

Then if I called it cheesy, I would just be trying to devalue and insult you as a player and your army.

Field it and have fun.


If it is oh sooooo easy to defeat the Nob bikers, then please, take any army, and work your magic to defeat the Nob bikers.

Please.

Do it, take it to a tournament, take it to your club, share your magic advice during someone else's game, make 'em win.

Dark Eldar can beat Nob bikers without even trying. Our pinning weapons are just THAT good. I been forcing my friends who do run Nob Bikers lists to STOP using them against me, as they have learned against my DE it is an auto-lose to field such an expensive and easily removed unit.

And my IG build can, and locally, does defeat Nob Bikers easily.

But in tourneys you will be hard pressed to find good Dark Eldar players who know how to pin efficiently, and obviously you never saw Psyker Battle Squad + Callidus lay low a Nob Biker Squad in a single attack because they have not been tourney legal as IG just came out.

As for other armies, good luck ha.

shin'keiro
06-05-2009, 07:48
Is 2 squads of Biker Nobz cheesy?

No its not.

a squig
06-05-2009, 08:19
if you just have 2 in a footslogging army then yes its cheesy, but in a bike army i would say it fits but make sure you dont do the whole i need to take 11 wounds berfore one dies

Nicha11
06-05-2009, 08:31
Giving that people get flack by taking just one squad of nob bikers, two will likely see you guillotined.

Fixer
06-05-2009, 09:49
In order for most armies to deal with and actually kill Ork nob bikers you need to have lots of str8 long range shooting attacks or powerfists.

Wounds caused by these weapons ignore feel no pain and bypass wound allocation problems by causing instant death and removing a model outright. In numbers a wound caused by a str 8 weapon is 4 times better than a normal wound caused from something like a bolter, however the ability to weaken the squad and remove entire models makes it even better than numbers alone would say.

Some armies have the weapons capable of dealing with Nob bikers. Many don't.

A notable example is the Tau. No powerfists and a lack of long range high str weapons (instead relying on single shot railguns most of the time) the only way the Tau can really defeat the unit itself is an alpha strike of seeker missiles guided by two squads of pathfinders. The other Ld based options are unreliable since pinning the unit with any degree of certainty requires the same amount of resources that you could be using to kill it instead.

If an opponent's army has been built with countering this unit in mind and the codex it's built from has the options available that allow them to do this then Ork nob bikers in an Ork army become simply a power unit. Something too good for it's cost, easy to use and with few drawbacks but can be beaten by a another player using the right weapons.

If the opponent hasn't built his force with defeating Nob bikers in mind or his codex simply doesn't have the weapons available to deal with them, it's possible that these units are going to win the game on their own regardless of any gross blunders you may make even if he plays his game flawlessly.

In this case, what else can they be but cheesy?

nargileh
06-05-2009, 10:36
Giving that people get flack by taking just one squad of nob bikers, two will likely see you guillotined.

The only good that can come from running a 2 nob biker list is that everyone else will start making multifloor scenery.
I would make one of those into a battwagon nob squad (in case your opponent climbs up buildings to protect himself from the bikers). There's even a good chance that wagon-nobs + bike-nobs will be seen as less cheesy than 2x bike-nob list, while being less vulnerable to an opponent hiding in upper floors.

Johan Chill
06-05-2009, 10:43
The only good that can come from running a 2 nob biker list is that everyone else will start making multifloor scenery.
I would make one of those into a battwagon nob squad (in case your opponent climbs up buildings to protect himself from the bikers). There's even a good chance that wagon-nobs + bike-nobs will be seen as less cheesy than 2x bike-nob list, while being less vulnerable to an opponent hiding in upper floors.

The thought of that actually made me laugh out loud for some reason. :p
Does that actually work though?

Getifa Ubazza
06-05-2009, 11:24
I use a Battle Wagon Nob mob, But i think the Nob Biker unit is just cool beyond cool. I wouldnt take them though, unless it was as part of a story driven game and my gaming partner knew they were coming. I would love to model a unit of them, purely for the awesomeness of what you could do with the models. If only i had the skills to do them justice.

samiens
06-05-2009, 13:53
In most cases, if you can effectively kill tanks you can klill nob bikers- if you can't then chances are the new metagame will slaughter you...

Fear of nob bikers is down to a lack of tactics to deal with them- personally at 1000 points there are many better armies than 2 nob biker units (my Deathwing 1000 points- which isn't great- would love to see it as I'll win the battle of attrition with ease) Not just that, but even with their speed an effective 2 units is far too few for even that small a game

I don't really believe in cheese- so I say no!

Fixer
06-05-2009, 14:26
I don't really believe in cheese- so I say no!

You may not believe in cheese but cheese believes in you :)

Let's just say now that a Cheesy unit is any unit that is better than the average.

Game imbalance is present in any asymmetric game. Due to the limitations of the system different units or entire armies are going to be worth more or than their point value less depending on the opponents they face.

Some units are simply better than others for cost in all circumstances, have no drawbacks, or their drawbacks are so minor, require unlikely dicerolls or are so difficult to exploit that they might as well not even exist.

We can rank things like the slightly cheesy Emmental like Vulkan. (He's better value than a similar Captain for the price of his wargear and his Chapter tactics are better than Combat tactics)

To the moderately cheesy Cheddar of Lash Princes. Better than any other character available to chaos but resistable by mechanised forces or anti psyker abilities.

The very cheesy Camenbert of Nob Bikers which are able to ignore any basic anti-infantry fire and roll though just about any tank or unit short of Thunderhammer terminators or Seer Council bikers but can be taken down if you have the right weapons.

To the stinking bishop of 5th edition cheese. The extremely fragrant seer council bikers. Who can face anything, kill anything and for the most part the best you can do is just tarpit them. The unit I'm building now :cheese:


Whether or not you disagree with the terminology or take it as an insult that people say something is cheesy (even when it's not) the point is that cheese exists. and no, that argument that you can play better to beat a superior army list doesn't work. In a balanced game assuming everything is equal one player should not have to play flawlessly whilst relying on his opponent to make mistakes in order to win.

In the end it's better to admit to playing a cheesy army that to use the argument that it does not exist. In the end that denial just makes you come of as either ignorant or arrogant.

I'm Fixer, and I play a cheesy army.

Grazzy
06-05-2009, 15:32
If they are all equipped differently then yes, as the player is clearly abusing a rule. In a hardcore tournament I would have no problem with it as their are several builds which can deal with it, but in a more friendly tourney I would be less than impressed if someone brought 2 units.

kikkoman
06-05-2009, 15:51
How about 5? two warbosses, two troop bikers, and three elite bikers

an entire army made up of multiwound bikers

Hicks
06-05-2009, 16:13
How about 5? two warbosses, two troop bikers, and three elite bikers

an entire army made up of multiwound bikers

... starts working on a cheeze wedge shaped branding iron...

Peril
06-05-2009, 20:28
It has been said beforein this thread, but I will say it again: Wound Allocation is the enemy, not Nob Bikers.