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Darkona
04-05-2009, 10:10
Hey i want to start a pre-heresy thousand sons army becuase i love their fluff and colour scheme but i am torn between which codex to use, space marine or chaos space marine

Chaos space marine: mark of tzeentch can show minor wards of protection
HQ- sorcerers

Elites- chosen can be sorcerer squads, all the plasma/melta/flamer "spells"
-terminators are just terminators- maby combi weapon represents small spell or psychic ability

Troops- normal marines with special/heavy weapons being sorcerers or maby just the champions with their special equipment

- thousand sons cult troops, now i am stuck on these guys as i could use them to show preheresy thousand sons with the sorcerer leader, magic bolters and wards of protection on the armour with slow and purposeful representing their cautious nature

Fast attack is fine

Heavy support
-havoks can be sorceror squads or just havoks
-obliterators can be lone sorcerers with many spells and wards of protection


Space marines
HQ- librarians

Elites- Sternguard veterans can be sorcerer squads

Troops- special and weapons can be sorcerers along with leaders

fast attack and heavy support is fine
obviously no post heresy gear e.g razorbacks or LRC

and both have great pychic special characters to represent higher sorcerers

which one do you think i should use?

Hlokk
04-05-2009, 10:33
Go for the chaos list, simply because you can have aspiring sorcerers in each squad of cult troops which would seen quite fluffy.

It also lets you take Ahriman.

Snotteef
04-05-2009, 13:04
I don't think the thousands sons entry really fits their pre-heresy counter-parts. I see you've justified their rules and I wouldn't slight you for doing it, but those rules are specific to the post-ritual automatons of the current thousand sons. That being said, I'd still use the Chaos list: the wargear and vehicle options are more consistent with pre-heresy marines and the terminators have the correct, pre-heresy loadout.

popisdead
04-05-2009, 18:41
The paint scheme is awesome.

I frankly think the current Thousand Sons troops choice is not good. I would recommend the normal Marine book as it's excellent. Go Librarian, Powersword heavy.

teanabowlie
04-05-2009, 18:57
Well if you're doing them as pre-heresy marines, I would say use the Marine Codex, Lack of psykers wouldn't be too much of a problem, I doubt that in pre-heresy times even the K.Sons had enough to put one in each squad, as you can do in the CSM Codex. Just go with two Librarians/Epistolary (sp?) as your HQs. Also Tigger seems more appropriate if you want to use an SC than Ahriman.

Now all you got to do is get hold of a few dozen KSons heads & tabards.... have fun with that!

Maidel
04-05-2009, 20:41
At the risk of being strung up for 'heresy' have you considered the daemon hunters army list....

They are all 'sorcerers' and dead hard - worth a thought.

Mozzamanx
04-05-2009, 20:48
I'd go with the normal Marines Codex, just because Rubrics are radically different to pre-heresy Marines. It also makes it alot easier to explain why you're Tacticals are so much slower than your Terminators (IE- They aren't).

Gate of Infinity is a good starter represent the Thousand's Sons trickery with a couple of squads, while the prevalence of Combi-Weapons should go someway to creating minor Sorcerers within squads. Sternguard as a cabal is a very good medium, with the 'ammo' representing different spells.

Mojaco
04-05-2009, 20:52
Either one is fine. If you don't use the funky stuff, but books are shockingly similar anyway.

Chaos has the benefit of allowing for smaller squad without losing the option of a special weapon. But the drawback is that 2 CCW doesn't fit their fluff at all.

Marines have the benefit of correct gear, but as a drawback only work in 10 men squads.

In either case you can represent the sorceror in a squad by a champion/sergeant with a plasma pistol. Str 7 ap2 can be a psykic (sp?) blast. And on a 1 he failed his psykic test )

Alessander
04-05-2009, 20:52
The HH books have pre-heresy TS land speeders, so you could make use of that. The HH artbooks are a great source of inspiration for a pre-H TS army, actually

I believe that pre-heresy TS are probably among the most difficult models to convert, though. What may help going a long way is to see if a local arts & crafts store has small wood/plastic scarabs, bar that small ladybugs that could use a little conversion. The pre-H TS's seemed to use more of the scarab than the "hollow sun" legion symbol, IMHO.

For a "counts as" list (using loyal SMs) think about using allied AH/DH Inquisitors with psychic powers to "count as" junior librarians (codiciers?). Since they are IC's they can lead more squads, leading to a possible 5 independant psykers in a SM-core army list.

They also used a lot of jetbikes, so going heavy on bikes in general and using jetbike models will look cool.

Raibaru
04-05-2009, 23:35
Tough call to be honest. And one I'm in a similar situation with. I love the Thousand Sons and a pre-heresy army sounds like a lot of fun. But I'm such a huge fan of the thousand sons models, it would be a shame not to use them. Of course you could use them as your sergeants and such for your squads.

If you need some suitable looking bits, I suggest you look at Maxmini.eu. One of their steam knight helms and the jet packs they offer look very much like pre-heresy stuff.

Heresy Era Helm (top left): http://www.maxmini.eu/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=60
Heresy Era Jetpacks: http://www.maxmini.eu/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=49
Books and Sorcery bits: http://www.maxmini.eu/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=56

I plan to use their helm and robed DA minis for my aspiring champions in my thousand sons squads. And I plan to use chaos marines with their jetpacks and the similar looking helm for my 'raptors'. Plan to use the Chaos Terminator Lord for my Obliterators and they use "spells" instead of plasma and such.

Now as for pre-heresy, I'd probably use the normal SM codex personally. Not all of the thousand sons were psykers (obviously), and I think it's quite fitting for your smaller games to be lead by a librarian or 2 to be very fluffy for them.

You could have the best of both worlds though and play Thousand Sons Chaos Space Marins and Blood Raven Space Marines. Blood Ravens have an interesting background, similar color scheme, modern armor, etc.

I like to believe the Blood Ravens descend back to Thousand Sons. Perhaps a fleet that weren't on the homeworld or something etc.

Alessander
10-05-2009, 21:27
don't forget WFG tomb kings tomb guard swords for the unique blades

Raibaru
10-05-2009, 21:33
don't forget WFG tomb kings tomb guard swords for the unique blades

The warrior box sets come with a couple also. Trying to get ahold of some of them, but most bits companies don't offer them.