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krashreed
04-05-2009, 14:31
The reason I ask is that it greatly affects cav formations say I have 3 companies of cav in a formation with a Captain (C), horn blower(H), and banner bearer (B) and 3 Gondor Knights (K). According the formation rules of heroes to warrior ratio. I could not have a company configured like so...

CB
HK
KK

The only way I could configure 3 heroes with three warriors and not have more heroes per base than warriors would be...

CK
BK
HK

This becomes crucial when removing casualites. This second configuration means I'm losing some bonus confered by the command every time I loose a company. It becomes even more crucial when you also add an epic hero (E)...

EK
CK
BK
HK

Jorgen_CAB
04-05-2009, 14:38
The reason I ask is that it greatly affects cav formations say I have 3 companies of cav in a formation with a Captain (C), horn blower(H), and banner bearer (B) and 3 Gondor Knights (K). According the formation rules of heroes to warrior ratio. I could not have a company configured like so...

CB
HK
KK

The only way I could configure 3 heroes with three warriors and not have more heroes per base than warriors would be...

CK
BK
HK

This becomes crucial when removing casualites. This second configuration means I'm losing some bonus confered by the command every time I loose a company. It becomes even more crucial when you also add an epic hero (E)...

EK
CK
BK
HK

The rule you are talking about is "Epic Heroes". You may not have more "Epic Heroes" than you have regular models. Banner bearers, captains, musicians and models like that is upgrades and can all be placed in the same company.
So if you have a formation of four cavalry and you have a banner bearer and a captain they can both be in one single command company. If an Epic Hero joins the formation he must be placed in another company together with a regular model. Thus you will have two companies left that are still all regular models.

Emissary
04-05-2009, 14:38
A hero is anything with a might point. Hence, hornblowers and banner bearers are not normally heroes (a few like corsair bosuns are).

That being said, I think the only time the hero/trooper ratio matters is on epic heroes. I'll have to check my book again, but I do think you could have a captain and banner in one cav base.

Chainaxe07
04-05-2009, 14:40
Captains are heroes, as well as most spellcasters, but standard bearers and musicians are not.

Hoster
05-05-2009, 18:11
If you have a captain, hornblower and standard in a cavalry formation, when you add a Epic Hero it will be to the third company. The Epic Hero has to have a normal trooper (not captain, HB or standard) with him.

Thus a 4 company cavalry formation with the above will look like;


_________
Cap | Std
Hrn | Cav
Epc | Cav
Cav | Cav

Jorgen_CAB
05-05-2009, 19:48
That would be a solid yes... :)

And not a very good idea since you will loose those command models pretty quickly. I find that banners and captains is all you need in cavalry formations.

xxRavenxx
05-05-2009, 22:17
To expand on this questioning, I wondered how this works:

An infantry formation:

I have a captain, a standard bearer, a musician and a shaman in my command platoon, along with 4 more basic men. I add an epic hero.

This gives me the following unit:

CA, SB, MU, SH, EH, BM, BM, BM, BM


My opponent kills three men, so I'd have

CA, SB, MU, SH, EH, BM.


If he now kills one more, am I forced to remove something other than the Basic Man, in order to keep my Epic hero?

Jorgen_CAB
05-05-2009, 22:27
No, that does not work at all. First of all you can't have an Epic Hero in a command company if there allready are four uppgraded models in it (you had nine in you example by the way). If you only have three uppgraded models in there you can put the Epic Hero in but the first casuilty must be the Epic Hero otherwise the company would be illegal.

Hoster
06-05-2009, 00:40
No, that does not work at all. First of all you can't have an Epic Hero in a command company if there allready are four uppgraded models in it (you had nine in you example by the way). If you only have three uppgraded models in there you can put the Epic Hero in but the first casuilty must be the Epic Hero otherwise the company would be illegal.

I'm not sure this is right. I don't have the rulebook on me but I don't think you have to lose the only Epic Hero until there's only one basic man left in the formation.

Is there a seperate rule somewhere that only allows half a company to be upgrades or something?

Jorgen_CAB
06-05-2009, 07:23
Well, no I explained that partially wrong... you can actually remove the command models and regular models first, as long as the number of Epic Heroes never is greater than the number of regular models. When you are down to the last two (Epic Hero and a regular model), the Epic Hero goes first. But the formation needs to be indomitable for that to happen anyway. Remember that the Epic Hero replace one regular model. So in your above example where you had four command models you will end up with only three regular models.

moar barmu
12-05-2009, 01:50
Question: What do shield bearers do? Do they have any special abilities or are they just an extra might point in a formation, a lesser command level hero?

Jorgen_CAB
12-05-2009, 09:20
Question: What do shield bearers do? Do they have any special abilities or are they just an extra might point in a formation, a lesser command level hero?

It makes the formation steadfast on a "5" or "6" instead of only a "6". Pretty useful if you ask me, especially when you put them in defensible terrain in combination with a standard. It also make Heroic Fight much less obvious against Dwarves.

moar barmu
12-05-2009, 22:11
it sounds extremely useful thanks. I think its a great ability. Still working without a rulebook here so I am elarning by asking. I was wondering what does Stalwart do?