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Rufus_Shinra
05-05-2009, 11:02
Generals!

Up to now I used a crazy meaningless Empire list - just to get some hold of the game. But time has come to devise something nice. So I'm calling you on the war council)))))) The prize for advice will be pics of the army(and the allied Dwarfen contingent, which will segue into my 2nd army, but only in case figures start painting themselves)

At first, I need to clear up some questions:
1. I found Halberdiers and X-bowmen to be useless meatshields. Seriously - they look great on the table, but offer little attacking power, and die really fast, are fist to get confused, so on. Skirmishers are fun, but to my eye they are just disrupting formations(where to put them, really?)
What's the best use for these units? How to pack them, so they could play ANY worthful role in the game? I can't get hold of infantry in Warmaster, cavalry is much better)))
2. Steam Tank. Everybody says it's useless, but I found that for the price of 1 command roll, it can add some nice firepower to a Knights charge, or help to concentrate some shooting and actually destroy a base or two(in conjunction w/ cannons or other missiles. I want your opinion. How did it fare in your games? Maybe I'm not right at all?
3. Cannons rule. I use dwarf cannons, as I only have these models, so they tend to fare better)))) Protecting them is hard - esp that I usually deploy everything in a line - that's a great problem. Maybe other deployment schemes are best for Empire?


These are the questions for now. More upcoming, as well as a 2k roster and pics (or maybe a Plog).

Time to get hard on Warmaster! The game should and will be popularized by me! :skull::skull:

Cpt. Drill
05-05-2009, 11:33
Okay one of my regular opponents uses Empire so I will try and help you out!

1. Cross bowmen and Halberdiers can be excillent (just dont hope for to much from them) A deploymen I really like is

X=crossbowmen stand
H= Halberdier Stand

---------------
--XXXXXX--
--HHHHHH--
--------------

Two units of crossbow men infront of two units of halberiders makes a nice sized brigade, it will have a wide front which is nice against infantry! The crossbowmen despite having no save will have a shed load of support behind them and the massed stand and shoot will help with damage! Effectively four attacks per stand in the first round of combat!

As for skirmishers my Froe really rates these little guys!

H=halberdiers
S=Skirmishers

--------
--HS--
--HH--
--------
He deoploys his units in neat little boxes like this and makes brigade out of them! The have a smaller frontage so massed cav wont get as many attacks and the skirmisher will be on the front line with support for a round or two! They add some extra attacks which I have seen the be deadly! Also the extra stand makes the halberdier units alot tougher, the unit has as many hits as a unit of dwarves but it puts out more attacks!

2. The main power of the steam tank is Terror! I would recommend keeping it with your artillary and your infantry. Firing it along side your other cannons is very helpful for massed shooting and when your infantry is getting into combat it is excillent support as a terror causing unit can cancel out the +1attack of a charge, if this is used along with Crossbowmen then you will have more attacks than most foes in the first round of combat. But I think i might suggest a griffon more than this guy.

3. Set cannons a little back from your infatry brigades.

X= Crossbowmen stand
H= Halberdier Stand
C= Cannon Stand

------------------------------
-XXXXXX-------XXXXXX--
-HHHHHH-CC-HHHHHH--
------------------------------

This way it will never be able to be charged in turn it will be able to provide close support for anything that is coming up against your squishy infantry.

In turn having something like this

X= Crossbowmen stand
C= Cannon Stand

----------------------------
--XXXXXX-----XXXXXX--
------------CC ------------
----------------------------

Means your cannons are still protected from the front, you have a nice bit of massed firepower from your Crossbowmen and the cannons combined. Also the crossbowmen can utilise their free turn to shoot any flyers that are trying to sneak up on you! potentially driving them off the board!


Hope this kind of helps!

Rufus_Shinra
05-05-2009, 11:50
Wow man! Some sound tactical advice!! That's a beer from me)) I'll think of it, try it and tell the results.

Cpt. Drill
05-05-2009, 11:51
Excillent! I plan to collect!

And what about the pictures?

Rufus_Shinra
05-05-2009, 12:00
In the evening, General. I need my troops to get to that photocamera! It is guarded by giant men called Humans!

Rufus_Shinra
05-05-2009, 13:20
Next question - Magic Items - to pack up or not to pack up? (I'm not talking about the compulsory Orb of Command, but about things like Banner of Shielding for the key Knights unit, so on). As far it has been a problem spot for me, I don't feel the value for magic items in WM - they are certainly good, but what is best?

azraelezekiel
05-05-2009, 14:25
I only ever take them to make up spare points.
Upping your break point is more important than casting 1 spell successfully :(

Cpt. Drill
05-05-2009, 18:53
For empire there is one magic item that is a must! This is the Ring of magic (I think) that allows you to auto cast one spell... This is so powerful with the Command spell which allows you to move a unit as if it had been ordered!

Using this in conjunction with game breaking charges such as your knights into theirs or something comparable. It also allows you tactical choice as instead of charging the front of someones unit you could use your successful charge order to move your units to a flank and then try to order them again safe in the knowledge that if they fail you have a free move waiting to use!

I tend to take a sword of might +1 attack on a hero on dragon to pump him up a little more. But thats because i almost always have 10pts left!

Rufus_Shinra
05-05-2009, 20:42
The blasted camera's batteries died out so today I'm gonna give you the only group photo WIP of my army.
It is an Altdorf Expeditional Corpus I, led by a cunning young General - Ludwig van der Saar. He, together with his schoolfriend Oliver Kramm, a mage seeking aknowledgement for his skills in light magic, have undertaken a journey with this troop under interesting circumstances, which I will tell, if there is any interest in the fluff. I might also add that a Dwarf allied contingent under the leadership of Stormy Hammerson somehow came into their adventure and, when the painting is done, they will be travelling together in search of fame, gold, and some evil-purging.


Hint: To view the photo big size click here
http://www.photoshare.ru/original/photoshare.ru-3182504.jpg

Rufus_Shinra
07-05-2009, 11:28
So, here's my Army List with the explanations and strategies.

ALTDORF EXPEDITIONAL CORPUS I

Command:

General w/ Orb of majesty!
Hero on Griffon w/ Sword of Might (+1 ATK)
Hero x2 (one with Sword of Destruction(re-roll successful armor saves))
Wizard x2

Troops:

Halberdiers x4
X-Bowmen x4
Flaggelants x2
Knights x3
Pistoliers x2
Empire Great Cannon x2
Hellblaster x1
The Mighty Steam Tank x1

Break point - 10
Total points: 1995

The idea is this.
Cannons and the Hellblaster form a shooting-destructive point, two brigades of 2 X-bowmen and 2 Halberdiers each stand near to protect them.
Cavalry is the hammer together with the griffon hero.
Flaggelants are the tar pit unit, or a moblie wall, which does not drive back from anything. Nice to hold the chaos knights while the cavalry is coming. Steam tank is either supporting the shooters and defends the cannons, or supports the cavalry in attacks.
Three heroes and a General is for Command - that's a Horde that needs moving! Wizards are trying to cast spells together - teleport helps. They either help the shooting or do some tactical things with Weird Enchantment and Voice of Command.

I'm not sure how to use pistoliers though, need advice on that! Light shooting cavalry in Warmaster is a mystery to me)))
Pls discuss the list, tell what you think, what may be changed. What are the weaknesses? The usual stuff)))

azraelezekiel
07-05-2009, 11:52
Is it crown of command or orb of majesty?
From the points I assume it is the orb of majesty.
I think you are to hero heavy.
I would drop one or two of the heroes/wizards.
I always take max wizards at the expense of heroes.
The orb is a lot of points just to retake one failed roll, you are getting close to another unit there.

By dropping the orb and 2 heroes and associated magic items you get another 205 points to spend on troops.

For that you can get 4 more halberdiers and increase your break by 2.
Or one unit of knights and one unit of pistoliers increasing your break by 1 and adding more punch to your force.

Other than that is looks quite a neat setup.
But when all is done you must play how you feel is right. Why not give it a try and see how you fare.

Rufus_Shinra
07-05-2009, 12:01
Edited the post, it's the orb of majesty.
Well, from the games I played I've seen that there is little efficiency in empire troops that are standing still - other armies will just butcher them! That's why I'm hero heavy. It is a tender point, though. I'm trying out this army next Saturday, so some conclusions may be drawn.
On the point of wizards - are they that useful, that a max of them should be taken? May be I'm not using them right....
And the question of Pistoliers is still open.

Cpt. Drill
07-05-2009, 13:48
I personally am not a fan of the helblaster or pistoliers.

Where as maxing out on knights is what empire do best!
Possibly dropping a hero might be good, and you have to put the ring of Magic on a wizard. Sereously this is a game winner!

azraelezekiel
07-05-2009, 17:59
It is also very subjective.
Whilst a High cavalry list will win in open terrain, an objective game or heavy scenery game really does rein in cavalry.

I am playing against 2k worth of empire tonight playtesting the new beastman list.
I doubt his knights will be much use on this table ;)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/mickmarriott/DSCN6870.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/mickmarriott/DSCN6871.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/mickmarriott/DSCN6872.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f364/mickmarriott/DSCN6873.jpg