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zeekill
06-05-2009, 00:05
Here's my ORIGINAL list:

Lords

Dreadlord Armour of Darkness, Ring of Darkness, Great Weapon 211 (In Black Guard)


Heroes

Sorceress Level 2, DarkStar Cloak 160 (In Warriors x18)


Sorceress Level 2, Sacrificial Dagger 160 (In Warriors x20)


Sorceress Level 2, Tome of Furion 150 (In Xbowmen)


Assassin Extra Hand Weapon, Manbane, Rending Stars 151 (In Shades)


Core

20x Dark Elf Warriors + Shields + Full Command 155

18x Dark Elf Warriors + Shields + Full Command 141

10x Dark Elf Crossbowmen + Full Command 120


Special

10x Black Guard + Full Command + Standard of Hag Graef 200

5x Cold One Knights + Full Command 175

10x Shades + Great Weapons + BloodShade 198


Rare

1x War Hydra 175

Total = 1996 points
__________________________________________________ __________
My list AFTER CHANGES. This will change as I get new ideas and suggestions

Lords

Supreme Sorceress Level 4, Sac Dagger, Dispel Scroll, 2x Power Stone 350


Heroes

Sorceress Level 2, DarkStar Cloak, Dispel Scroll 185

Master BSB Pendant of Khaeleth, Blood Armour, SD Cloak, Great Weapon 163

Core

Dark Elf Warriors + Shields + Full Command x25 - 190

Dark Elf Warriors + Shields + Full Command x20 - 155

Dark Riders + Music x5 - 92

Dark Riders + Music x5 - 92

Harpies x5 - 55

Harpies x5 - 55

Special

Black Guard + Full Command + Standard of Hag Graef x18 304

Shades + Great Weapons x5 - 90

Shades + Great Weapons x5 - 90

Rare

War Hydra x1 - 175

Total 1996
__________________________________________________ __________
Finished, But will most likely be tweaked over time.

VERSION #3 as of 5/6/09

bob_the_small
06-05-2009, 00:11
I suggest losing the command on your crossbowmen, the GW and bloodshade and making up the lost points in more BG, plus, I would go for just 1 unit of 5 shades, or 2 units of 5... with that build you can change the assasins' items and equip him differently, so he can work in other units like your spearmen...

Amnar
06-05-2009, 00:18
I don't think you have enough meat in your list. 10 black guard aren't enough to form a solid anvil, and 5 cold ones and a hydra don't provide enough punch. A list with decent magic defense will give you a whole lot of trouble. You're also giving up one of the key strengths of the Dark Elves, the ability to dictate the movement phase. 10 shades won't cut it, IMO you need harpies and dark riders. A quick change I'd make right off the bat would be to lose the 18 spears and buff the BG up to 17, lose the bloodshade and another shade or two, and take 10 harpies.

I would also give the dreadlord the pendant instead of the ring, in case you need to hug beefy combat characters in challenges and keep them from slaughtering the black guard :)

Right now you have a strong magic phase, a decent shooting phase with all those shades and the stars, but a weak combat phase and a weak movement phase. My two cents.

zeekill
06-05-2009, 00:42
Thanks but the Ring of Darkness is used in the BG unit so that if someone wants to shoot them it will be at 1/2 BS, which for things like elves will take shooting from a 3+ to a 5+, and the extra spears are to provide a unit for my third sorceress (as you see i have 3 sorceresses and 3 infantry units (excluding the shades), so removing them without putting in something else for my Sorcs to nest in is a problem.

So far I think i will split the Shades unit in half and remove the bloodshade. What else? I know i need to cut down on stuff to make way for Dark Riders and Harpies but idk what. Ideas would be great

MTUCache
06-05-2009, 04:07
This is MEGA MAGIC HEAVY Dark Elves. My idea is to have my sorceresses stay back and rain hell on my enemies until our forces clash. This will work because with my very strong units of CoK, BG, my Hydra, and my Shades, my opponent will be scared and focus on them more than my Sorceresses.

I stopped reading here.... nothing made sense to my apparently feeble mind.

Your "strong" units of CoK/BG/Hydra? Where were they in the list? I get the Hydra being a distraction, but 5xCoK and 10xBG are minor annoyances at best when compared to your six levels of magic and the large blocks of warriors.

Your entire army depends on.... him not getting into contact with you so that you can continue shooting and using magic against him? Yet you have no marchblockers to speak of (sorry... missed the Shades) and nothing to re-direct him from a full-frontal single line assault. So what exactly were you planning on doing in turns 4, 5, and 6? Anybody with 5DD and a couple of scrolls is going to have no problem getting 90% of his battle line into yours and you'll spend the rest of the game trying to get your units free of his and look for anything that looks like a reasonable target.

Your opponent isn't going to be "forced" to come to you... he's going to want to. You don't have anything that's going to stop him from chewing through your units two or three per turn. Nothing with a static-CR of more than 4, and nothing hard-hitting enough to overcome that. If he gets one unit with a static-CR of 6 across the board intact (not all that hard with decent magic defense), he'll be smashing you almost without rolling dice. Likewise, he gets a couple of hard-hitting cav units across the board and he can do the same as long as he avoids the rubber-lances.

No tar-pits. No substantial blocks. No anvil. No heavy hammer. I'm not really feeling this one.

zeekill
06-05-2009, 04:23
I stopped reading here.... nothing made sense to my apparently feeble mind.

Your "strong" units of CoK/BG/Hydra? Where were they in the list? I get the Hydra being a distraction, but 5xCoK and 10xBG are minor annoyances at best when compared to your six levels of magic and the large blocks of warriors.

Your entire army depends on.... him not getting into contact with you so that you can continue shooting and using magic against him? Yet you have no marchblockers to speak of (sorry... missed the Shades) and nothing to re-direct him from a full-frontal single line assault. So what exactly were you planning on doing in turns 4, 5, and 6? Anybody with 5DD and a couple of scrolls is going to have no problem getting 90% of his battle line into yours and you'll spend the rest of the game trying to get your units free of his and look for anything that looks like a reasonable target.

Your opponent isn't going to be "forced" to come to you... he's going to want to. You don't have anything that's going to stop him from chewing through your units two or three per turn. Nothing with a static-CR of more than 4, and nothing hard-hitting enough to overcome that. If he gets one unit with a static-CR of 6 across the board intact (not all that hard with decent magic defense), he'll be smashing you almost without rolling dice. Likewise, he gets a couple of hard-hitting cav units across the board and he can do the same as long as he avoids the rubber-lances.

No tar-pits. No substantial blocks. No anvil. No heavy hammer. I'm not really feeling this one.

Sorry, but instead of just criticizing my list, how about you help me out here? I'm a relatively new player, this is my first DE list built, and to add to that my second time even working with Dark Elves at all, and i wanted some help to make it better, not some guy yelling at me about how much it apparently sucks.

Either criticize AND help, or don't do anything, no need to ruin my day.

And on a side note, what do you mean about my Warriors being good? Theyre the worst useful unit in the list, there's just alot more of them.\\
On a second side note, 6 static CR? 3 for ranks, +1 for banner, theres nothing else but a BSB and then Flank/Rear charges

zeekill
06-05-2009, 04:53
Ok i really changed my list now, I think it is more adapted towards what you guys suggested. See it up top.

Im now saddened that i dont have the points to put my sorcs on mounts so they can be in units.

I think the extreme increase in mobility will at the same time substitute the lack of anvils.

EVERYONE PLEASE MAKE SUGGESTIONS!!
Don't just say "oh it sucks" and thats it, i need your help to make it better!

Dark14
06-05-2009, 04:58
he is helping your army is afold. drop the almost all the core for xbows this is a range list you wnt and you have none... also sup. sorc should be in a magic heavy list.

zeekill
06-05-2009, 05:20
he is helping your army is afold. drop the almost all the core for xbows this is a range list you wnt and you have none... also sup. sorc should be in a magic heavy list.

Sup. Sorc Has no place in this list because DE can cast with as many dice as they want already, so whats the point? This way i get an extra PoD

I need at least one unit of Warriors to use the Sacrificial Dagger on.

Xbows dont do well against T4 and can barely scratch T5

Dark Riders can evade enemies well and move 18", allowing them to run past enemies and hit them in the flank or rear, or just charge towards their archers in the back if they have any. This changed from a Magic Heavy list to a Magic Hit and Run list anyway...

ICEMANQ
06-05-2009, 06:21
It's rather difficult for dark riders to get across the board and rear charge shooting units, no?

Dark riders are the unit that most people attempt to ice asap. You also have no units that can really hurt anyone without extensive combo charging. So many small t3/bad save units are begging to be panic tested into oblivion.

Drop the dark rider units to 5 each, get rid of their standards/champions, maybe drop a unit of harpies and/or shades (don't need two units when you already have 2 units of dark riders, not to mention the shades) and use the points to buy more black guard and another block of troops (maybe corsairs? Executioners if you can stomach them? I know they are useless but you need more ranks in your army).

MTUCache
06-05-2009, 13:55
Sorry, but instead of just criticizing my list, how about you help me out here? I'm a relatively new player, this is my first DE list built, and to add to that my second time even working with Dark Elves at all, and i wanted some help to make it better, not some guy yelling at me about how much it apparently sucks.

Either criticize AND help, or don't do anything, no need to ruin my day.

And on a side note, what do you mean about my Warriors being good? Theyre the worst useful unit in the list, there's just alot more of them.\\
On a second side note, 6 static CR? 3 for ranks, +1 for banner, theres nothing else but a BSB and then Flank/Rear charges

Wait... this isn't one of your topics where we all try and "discuss" things with eachother in the most condescending way possible to force our points down the other person's throat before we have any possible chance of changing their mind? I thought that's the kind of "discussion" you were going for. Pardon me.

This list has the same problem that all shooty/magic-heavy armies have. It's expensive, and doesn't give you much room for combat units, as you've noticed.

Basically, between your lord, your three L2s, and your Assassin, you're spending half your points (over 800 anyway). On five models. By the time you've added in your Hydra you're over 1000 points and you have only a single hard hitting unit, and none ranked up.

Dark Elves excel at all phases of the game, but being an elite army they tend to have very small forces and even smaller margin for error. But, with this tradeoff, you'll find that because the troop selections are so good, you don't need to load up on characters. You can easily get away with only three characters and still have a good magic-heavy army and a reasonable level of hard-hitting troops.

I like the fast-moving idea... keep flowing with that. The warrior block is also a very good, cheap unit that will provide you with a decent anvil. Build from there getting the units you want in, and then figure out which characters you can fit in the end. Maybe you only need a Level 4 and a level 2 with your assassin. Or maybe you'd rather drop the assassin and get a BSB. Either way, a combat-Lord, three sorceresses and an assassin is way too big of an investment in too small an army.

As for 6-static-res, I'm talking about 3 ranks, a standard bearer (4), outnumber (5), and either a BSB or a Warbanner (6+). DE Warriors are extremely good at this being only 6 points each. Although I'll admit that CR is quickly becoming a thing of the past (again) with all the heavy-hitters out there, it's something that you'll generally need in your army if you're hoping to be able to kill off large blocks of anything with a character in them or high leadership.

W0lf
06-05-2009, 14:30
Very weak list cant see it winning tbh.

Ill tear it apart as im feeling charitable;

The character selection is terrible. Ring of darkness is not a brilliant item and will solve no real role in your list. Against BS 3 (majority of shooting) its just -1 to hit, then theres auto-hitting shooting+magic missiles.

Your magic is not heavy by any stretch. You have 9 power dice, with no scrolls and 5 DD most magic phases will tear you apart.

A Far better build imo would look something like;

Lvl 4 with sacrifical dagger, scroll, 2xpower stones
Lvl 2 with Darkstar cloak, scroll
Master, BSB, Pendant, Great weapon, Blood armour, Sea dragon coak

The assasin is an 'internet phenomina' build that i think is waste of time. Id rather just find a few odd points and take 2 RBT or more of an army. For his points you could get 10 more black guard and crimson death on unit champ (which makes it a disgustingly good unit)

You lose the LD10 but the master is far more surviavable and give your army a BSB. Likeiwse Dagger on a lvl 4 gives great synergy, especially with powerstones for +3 dice.

Your core is again a complete mess. 8 Dark riders is a bad unit size and FC on fast cav is free VPs for enemy. 3x 5 with mus is far far better. 20 Dark elf spearmen is too small for a unit especially if you want to use the dagger. Harpies are good however.

Shades are undisputedly great. The black guard are ineffectivly small. One 2D6 S4 and they can be ignored.

A lone hydra is good but meh.

In short your army has alot of manoverable elements but no real hard hitting. As a rule of thumb you can tell how good a list is by how many big threats it has. Atm im getting one Hydra, medium magic and a small unit of Black guard... not scared if im honest.

I could write you an armylist but tbh from seeing your other posts you will just argue with everything i just said and id be wasting my time. Needless to say go lose a few games with the list then come back and ill help. ;)

Monsterzonk
06-05-2009, 15:01
Unfortunately I have to agree with most people here. Your list just isn't very competitive. Sorry.
You have invested far too many points in disruptive units (Shades, Dark Riders, Harpies). Like W0lf has said, reduce the size of the Dark Riders to five with a musician. They neither need a champion nor a banner. They're not there for fighting, but for redirecting.

I say drop one unit of Dark Riders and a unit of Harpies and get something that actually can do some damage, like Cold One Knights or more Black Guard (18 are about a good size).

If you want to go magic heavy, get a Supreme Sorceress. I know DE can cast Dark Magic with as many dice as they want to, but still a Supreme Sorceress is... well... supreme. Fist up, she has more spells, secondly she generates more dice.

In Fantasy you can rarely rely on magic and shooting to win you the game. There will be a point where you have to get stuck in, and this army has no real way to do that.

Just my two cents.

Amnar
06-05-2009, 17:10
My list AFTER CHANGES. This will change as I get new ideas and suggestions[/B]

Lords

Dreadlord Armour of Darkness, Ring of Darkness, Great Weapon 1 211

I really would give him the Pendant, you need it for big nasties on dragons, bloodthirsters, etc.


Heroes

Sorceress Level 2, DarkStar Cloak 160


Sorceress Level 2, Sacrificial Dagger 160


Sorceress Level 2, Tome of Furion 150


Assassin Extra Hand Weapon, Manbane, Rending Stars 151

If you need more points, this is the first guy to drop

Core

20 Dark Elf Warriors + Shields + Full Command 155

You need more of these

8 Dark Riders + Full Command 171

One unit of 5 with muso only is good for 2000

8 Dark Riders + Full Command 171

swap out for a unit of xbows with shields and muso

5 Harpies 55

good

5 Harpies 55

good

Special

10 Black Guard + Full Command + Standard of Hag Graef 200

You really need 18 of these guys. You should also give the champ crimson death or the ap whip, since they need all the help they can get against heavy armour, the Dreadlord's 4 st 6 attacks are insufficient.

5 Shades + Great Weapons 90

One unit of 5 or 7 should do the trick

5 Shades + Great Weapons 90

see above

Find a way to add a unit of cold one knights with the points saved

Rare

1 War Hydra 175

Find a way to add an RBT with the points saved.

Total 1994
__________________________________________________ __________
This changed from magic heavy to Magic Hit n' Run Dark Elves. My idea is to have my sorceresses ride around, playing ring around the rosey with my enemies and rain magic hell on them.

THIS LIST IS FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES STILL UNFINISHED!!!!!!
There are still many things for me to fix such as putting my sorcs on Dark Steeds and possibly switching from BG and Dread on Foot to CoK and Dread on Cold One.

I am however quite sad that i could not fit in some more combat units, if anyone can give me ideas on how to fit more in I would appreciate it. Thanks.


I have added my edits above.

zeekill
06-05-2009, 19:42
Ok for all those people that saw my previous threads, especially those where i argued with the advice given to me, i have dropped that tactic because i saw that i was kind of being a total jerk. Im gonna stop that tactic completely and now apologize for being a smart*** and pretending that i know what is right, clearly you can see from this list i wasn't.

For those that say I don't have a strong magic phase, why? I have 9 dice + another D3+1 for each casting of PoD, which i can cast 3 times. Depending on if things get dispelled or not ill usually get a total of around 12 dice. Will try to fit in a few scrolls though.

zeekill
06-05-2009, 20:07
By the time im done with this list im looking for the following ratings from 1-10, 1 being horrible/none and 10 being OMG YOU JUST KILLED 4 UNITS FIRST TURN! (Ok really exaggerating there)

Maneuverability: 6-9 : Not an entirely movement concentrated army, but one that does have an advantage and will pull off a few flanks and stuff.

Magic: 4-8 : I <3 magic, but not like all Lvl 4 and 3x Lvl 2, trying to get off 10 spells a turn. In my original list i was going magic crazy, putting everything on having all those sorcs, I think ill bring it down to 2 sorcs and add in some combat.

Shooting: No Score : Im not really going for a shooty army, though some shooting could help here and there like Shades. I dont really like Xbowmen cuz they usually need 5's then 4's or 5's and only cause 1-3 wounds at -1 armor save.

Combat: 5-8 : I need enough for a good fight, preferably something that can leave some major damage, as apposed to my original list that could die if you so much as sneeze on it. Going more towards maneuverability advantageous tho.

Outnumbering: 4-6 : I want to be able to have the advantage some of the time, and the rest of the time be at least good enough to hold my enemies back.

azorth
06-05-2009, 20:07
don't over rate power of darkness, it is cast on 4+ and most of the time you cast it on 2 dice and get an average of extra dice or none at all! if you dont cast with 2 dice, you risk loosing that 1 dice you try to cast it with... so your list isnt as magic heavy as you think... Granted you have 7 spells but you are going to likely pull 3-4 offensive spell off if your luck is average

zeekill
06-05-2009, 20:13
don't over rate power of darkness, it is cast on 4+ and most of the time you cast it on 2 dice and get an average of extra dice or none at all! if you dont cast with 2 dice, you risk loosing that 1 dice you try to cast it with... so your list isnt as magic heavy as you think... Granted you have 7 spells but you are going to likely pull 3-4 offensive spell off if your luck is average

Im not, though that one extra dice can make all the difference. And my sorc with the dagger can cast it on one and still sacrifice if it fails, so she will always get it and sometimes even on just one dice. I see the risks though. Thanks

zeekill
06-05-2009, 23:02
Ok people new list now up top in the first post!

Any suggestions on what to remove/replace?

Monsterzonk
06-05-2009, 23:10
The new list looks much better. I'm not sure about the second unit of 20 spearmen, though, as they don't really seem to have a specific role in this army. Maybe get a unit of 5 Cold One Knights instead, so you have some fast killing power to hammer enemy flanks.

W0lf
06-05-2009, 23:52
New list is very good a massive imporvement.

some might say the second unit of spears is wasted but id argue diffrent. 3 blocks of infantry is a nice numebr you cant go far wrong with and DE spears are a steal at their cost.

In this list id probably take 2RBT instead of a hydra (heresy i know) but apart from that its nice. Dont be suprised if it takes you 5-6 games to really get a feel for the list but after the curve you will do well. If you wanted to change a few things the harpies/shades would be the first place to get a few points as 2xDR, 2xshades, 2xharpies all esentially fill the same kind of role.

Thinking about it the biggest improvement i could suggest would be to trade the 20 spears+5 harpies for 2 RBT. But its not essential to the playability of the list.

EDIT; Nice to see a change of tone, you dont want to getting a rep as one of 'those guys' :)

zeekill
07-05-2009, 00:13
The new list looks much better. I'm not sure about the second unit of 20 spearmen, though, as they don't really seem to have a specific role in this army. Maybe get a unit of 5 Cold One Knights instead, so you have some fast killing power to hammer enemy flanks.

I was thinking of a second anvil, seeing as i only have that other unit of warriors, but the CoK do sound better. (And i already have the CoK models unlike the extra Warriors)

zeekill
07-05-2009, 00:19
New list is very good a massive imporvement.

some might say the second unit of spears is wasted but id argue diffrent. 3 blocks of infantry is a nice numebr you cant go far wrong with and DE spears are a steal at their cost.

In this list id probably take 2RBT instead of a hydra (heresy i know) but apart from that its nice. Dont be suprised if it takes you 5-6 games to really get a feel for the list but after the curve you will do well. If you wanted to change a few things the harpies/shades would be the first place to get a few points as 2xDR, 2xshades, 2xharpies all esentially fill the same kind of role.

Thinking about it the biggest improvement i could suggest would be to trade the 20 spears+5 harpies for 2 RBT. But its not essential to the playability of the list.

EDIT; Nice to see a change of tone, you dont want to getting a rep as one of 'those guys' :)

The great thing about the shades is that they actually fill a double role, giving them great weapons makes them a force to be reckoned with, as i will most likely be getting the charge to the rear or flank if all goes well.
As for the RBT, I heard some horrible things about how ineffective they are, especially for the points cost

W0lf
07-05-2009, 00:26
I always disagree with RBT theory anyway. Its not something im going to bother arguing, as the list is fine as it is and its personal preference.

zeekill
07-05-2009, 00:29
As for the CoK in place of the 20 extra spearmen, the spearmen are 155 points and the CoK are 175.

Any ideas on how to kill 16 points? (Minus 4 because my list adds up to 1996

W0lf
07-05-2009, 00:30
I wouldnt make the swap.

5 cold one knights are horribly fragile for their cost.

T3, 2+ save, 5 wounds can be made innefective very easily.

zeekill
07-05-2009, 00:32
I wouldnt make the swap.

5 cold one knights are horribly fragile for their cost.

T3, 2+ save, 5 wounds can be made innefective very easily.

Yea youre right. I was only considering them because I already have the 5 CoK (i bought the battalion set)

zeekill
07-05-2009, 00:35
Thanks Everyone, This problem is now resolved.

If anyone would like to give more advice ill be checking this forum from time to time.

Now I'm off to make my 200, 300, 400, and 500 point VC warbands to be posted on warseer by the weekend for those that... love to help with VC warbands i guess... :wtf: lol

And for the curious that are wondering why this guy is playing VC and DE at the same time, its that im making do with the VC i have so far (i have enough for a warband, yay) until i finish my DE, then i will seriously start them.

Amnar
07-05-2009, 00:47
My list AFTER CHANGES. This will change as I get new ideas and suggestions[/U][/B]

Lords

Supreme Sorceress Level 4, Sac Dagger, Dispel Scroll, 2x Power Stone 350


Heroes

Sorceress Level 2, DarkStar Cloak, Dispel Scroll 185

Master BSB Pendant of Khaeleth, Blood Armour, SD Cloak, Great Weapon 163

Core

Dark Elf Warriors + Shields + Full Command x25 - 190

Dark Elf Warriors + Shields + Full Command x20 - 155

Dark Riders + Music x5 - 92

Dark Riders + Music x5 - 92

Harpies x5 - 55

Harpies x5 - 55

Special

Black Guard + Full Command + Standard of Hag Graef x18 304

Shades + Great Weapons x5 - 90

Shades + Great Weapons x5 - 90

Rare

War Hydra x1 - 175

Total 1996
__________________________________________________ __________
THIS LIST IS FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES STILL UNFINISHED!!!!!!

VERSION #3 as of 5/6/09

Much much better. One think you might want to think about is why the warriors are there. Are they an anvil unit? If so, why do you need two? I would keep the one of 25 and ditch the 20 man unit for a hard hitter, maybe CoK or a pair of chariots.

zeekill
07-05-2009, 00:54
Much much better. One think you might want to think about is why the warriors are there. Are they an anvil unit? If so, why do you need two? I would keep the one of 25 and ditch the 20 man unit for a hard hitter, maybe CoK or a pair of chariots.

I would, but CoK are 20 points more and only T3 with 5 wounds. Sure they got a 2+ save but they are so few they will still get crushed most of the time. The second Warrior unit provides a decent anvil and fits the points.

ICEMANQ
07-05-2009, 02:56
I disagree. Five CoK with the extra res banner is golden. The argument that they can easily be made ineffective is almost irrelevant. Your army is going to get shot/magic'd up, that's how it is. Sometimes they'll do nothing, sometimes they'll win you a game.

Besides, the Cold One models (specifically the mount itself) are sex.

zeekill
07-05-2009, 03:05
And the combat res banner? Thats another 25 points in addition to the 20 i dont have

ICEMANQ
07-05-2009, 03:12
Drop five shades?

And to be honest, calling spearmen an anvil is a bit of a stretch.. Chaos Knights have a fairly decent chance of breaking them on the go, and any enemy cav unit with a hero will spank them senseless. Use M5 black guard to take their worst charges on the chin, obviously.

zeekill
07-05-2009, 03:31
Drop five shades?

And to be honest, calling spearmen an anvil is a bit of a stretch.. Chaos Knights have a fairly decent chance of breaking them on the go, and any enemy cav unit with a hero will spank them senseless. Use M5 black guard to take their worst charges on the chin, obviously.

Thats why I redirect with Dark Riders and Harpies and Flank/Rear with shades. That gives the Warriors a chance to be a great anvil

bob_the_small
07-05-2009, 07:30
drop the great weapons on your shades for the banner...

W0lf
07-05-2009, 11:41
so you guys are suggesting;

5 Cold one knights, warbanner, standard
212 pts?

Id far far rather 2 RBT/2nd hydra if thats the path your taking. 312 VP unit as easy to remove as cold ones? Not a good idea imo.

for cold ones to really work you want multiple units and/or hydra banner.

amade0
07-05-2009, 21:06
A second hydra is the obvious choice but your gonna get frowned to death for that... beware the furrowed brow of the fat man with the beard.
The cold ones will be more readily accepted and work well with ur current hydra.
On their own a unit of 5 cok with fc will beast most units of 20 basic troops on the charge, your cold ones cause fear, with your rerolls u should be killing 6 or so, he gets the champ back (u get a 2+ sv) so most likely he gets banner outnumber and 3 ranks, you win and get 3 dice to pursue........ what are the spearmen gonna be doing?