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purple40k
06-05-2009, 11:29
I am fiddling around with hero composition for WoC in 2250 games. I like magic centric WoC, it's just stronger. So I did a fair bit of rolling to determine how I feel about a lvl2 trying to pull off gate under the circumstances of this here composition and I am pretty darn impressed. My main concerns with the hero comp is to be able to put enough heat out there to actually help my army win. I think steed of shadows via book of secrets is a good way to implement call to glory in less than ideal situations. I am still very mixed on what to do with the second lvl2.

Here is the loadout I am planning on running;
Demon Prince
Mark of Tzeentch, Lvl4, Tendrils of Tzeentch

Chaos Sorcerer
Mark of Tzeentch, Lvl2, Spell Familiar, Book of Secrets, Conjoined Homunculus

Chaos Sorcerer
Lvl2, Power Familiar

The prince and tzeentch sorcerer are both very capable of casting a gate a turn. If either of the two Tzeentch casters does not receive gate on their spell selection then I have the option of throwing exalted champions into warmachines and softer targets that I need to get rid of with steed of shadows. This seems like the most reasonable way to build a double gate list that can preform somewhat consistently in 2250. The last Sorcerer is not really set in stone and I am still tempted to make him mark of Slaanesh for the benefit of helping shut down some marches and assisting versus the more shooty armies. I know this is weak against caster heavy enemies because of the lack of scrolls. Again, this is a good place to possibly modify that 3rd caster.

Are the point differences between the sorcerer lord and demon prince too overwhelming?!?! Tendrils, is it really that awesome for preventing miscasts and helping with forces?

I look forward to hearing how to improve my hero selection, thanks!

Nicha11
06-05-2009, 11:38
You won't be able to reliably cast gateway with your hero.

On average he will roll 13.

Lord Khabal
06-05-2009, 11:43
Yep, you better stick to a magelord with spell familiar + book of secrets to use the 5 PD. with 5 spells you have a chance of 83,3% of getting a gateway.

purple40k
06-05-2009, 12:13
Can I not use tendrils of Tzeentch and hommoncolus?

If I am better off with the sorcerer are they all better off in the same unit? Going for gateway should I plan on sticking with a more deathstar/chariot/warshrine list?

Thanks, the Warriors of Chaos tactica-thread is just about useless at the current level of noise to info ratio!

Isabel
06-05-2009, 12:27
Here's my set up, maybe you'll find something you like in here.

Sorcerer Lord - MoT, Disk, Infernal Puppet, Golden eye, Enchanted shield, Dispel scroll

Sorcerer - Lvl 2, MoT, Disk, Skull of Katam

Sorcerer - Lvl 2, MoT, Disk, Conjoined Homun, Blood of Tzeentch (or spell familiar +dispel scroll instead of blood for better chance at gateway)

I keep the Sorc with skull in between the two to give the additional +1 cast for a total of +2 each. Hope I get gateway on the lord and sorc with conjoined and blood and then just gateway away! Those disks allow them to get where they need to be very easily.

Good luck

Edit: Also, casting Flickering flames with each character on one dice at +2 really helps draw out the dispel dice as well. ;)

Witchblade
06-05-2009, 15:48
The only way a L2 could somewhat reliably cast gateway is with blood of tzeentch and conjoined humunculus. This would make him a stupid sorcerer with a 1/3 chance of getting gateway.

purple40k
06-05-2009, 18:53
3 dice with one reroll +1-2 depending on who the third caster is, then add a d3 after that. I think the average is 13-14 before you figure in the tendrils reroll. Am I wrong on my thinking here? Can I not use tendrils on a caster roll during my magic phase?

I like the idea of 3 disc characters, just not sure how I would compose a list to support them.

Thanks for the responses.

Witchblade
06-05-2009, 19:14
You can use tendrils on the power dice of another character, yes. I wouldn't advise it though. You really want that reroll in case of a miscast.

Anyway, the DP only has a 2/3 chance of having gateway and the L2 only 1/2. I would never base an army around such odds. Only 1/3 games will both have gateway.

Of course the L2s can do other things than cast gateway, but tzeentch L2s are generally far inferior to nurgle L2s. Flickering fire is nice, but buboes is arguably better. Transmogrification is pretty much worthless, except against lone varghulfs. Treason is decent and pandaemonium is good, but call to glory and gateway are normally unusable.

You could try it though. I think it would be cool to try in a friendly (L4 + 2 L2 all of tzeentch).

EvC
06-05-2009, 19:46
Whatever you do, come up with strategies for what to do for those games where you don't even roll gateway, otherwise you'll be completely fooked far too often.

purple40k
06-05-2009, 21:15
Thanks for confirming that guys. I totally agree there about needing to have an army that can stand in case I end up with no gateway access. That is why I am theory hammering around the idea of using the book of secrets to grab steed of shadows on one caster. I think being able to bounce a basic exalted hero into smaller shooty or skirmisher units could really improve the army potential. Especially if I am using that strategy to supplement chariot charges or other hammer style units.

Isabel
06-05-2009, 21:31
Yea, I dont actually base my strategy on getting gateway with both. I've had fantastic luck with Flickering fire spamming with 3 sorcerers. Also casting pandemonium with one character, then baleful transmog with another can be fun ;) I just like the way they work with each other, 3 disk riders floating around blasting things, great stuff. Sometimes I do a setup similar to Avians. A lvl 4 on disk, lvl 2 on disk and a bsb on disk who has book of secrets, spell familiar, flail and shield. That's a Bsb who can take 2 magic missles, float 20" for artil charges with 4 attacks at str 7 . Not bad. Has the added benefit of makeing your units harder to break in combat.

Good luck.

Sevitan
06-05-2009, 21:46
Yea, I dont actually base my strategy on getting gateway with both. I've had fantastic luck with Flickering fire spamming with 3 sorcerers. Also casting pandemonium with one character, then baleful transmog with another can be fun ;) I just like the way they work with each other, 3 disk riders floating around blasting things, great stuff. Sometimes I do a setup similar to Avians. A lvl 4 on disk, lvl 2 on disk and a bsb on disk who has book of secrets, spell familiar, flail and shield. That's a Bsb who can take 2 magic missles, float 20" for artil charges with 4 attacks at str 7 . Not bad. Has the added benefit of makeing your units harder to break in combat.

Good luck.

I've been doing this, but you can only have the Eye on one disc, and makes the other 2 very vulnerable to shooty stuff. If someone wants to take either of them down, they can usually allocate enough power to remove a single character, especially if they are flying around in a group on the flank, hard to resit...

Avian
07-05-2009, 09:13
It's not that hard to hide from things if you have useful spells that don't require line of sight. The problem comes when you get spells that are mostly situational and you have to resort to Flickering Fire a lot.