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Pooky
07-05-2009, 01:25
Just a silly question, but is it possible to be following Chaos and not realise it? Some stories make it seem quite clear you are either for the Imperium OR for Chaos with no inbetweens and which ever stance you take you hate the other side. There are others which blurr the lines; there is a loyalist who is troubled/ tempted/ tricked/ forced/ etc into following Chaos, usually by some flaw in their character. But is it possible to follow Chaos and not know it?

Mannimarco
07-05-2009, 01:30
yes, yes it is.

its been noted several times in the fluff that many races have done their own thing not knowing they were actively supporting chaos

PondaNagura
07-05-2009, 01:32
i'm sure there were plenty of cultures prior to the Great crusade, and even afterwards who let their citizens practice various rituals and lifestyles, that probably had some line with Chaos. as i am sure there are cults and backwater worlds, who believe they are following the imperial cult, but are in actuality pawns of chaos, having carried on their own 'interpretations' of the Emperor.

SimonL
07-05-2009, 01:43
I just had a funny image of Slaaneshi cult leaders screaming

"Ladies, show us your ****!!!! FOR THE EMPRAH!"

Nicha11
07-05-2009, 01:55
With Horus on the golden throne isn't the whole Imperium worshipping Chaos?

Now i've really screwed with your minds.

cankingboi
07-05-2009, 02:29
yea it can happen in the soul drinkers books they were following tzeentch and they didnt know until they shot thee daemon down on their ship

Hood
07-05-2009, 02:30
When I saw the question a mini scenario popped into my head.

A chaos marine that is under the illusion of still surving the Empire but in reality has been tainted by chaos some time ago and serves under them. Madness and paranoia has crept in his mind so deeply that everything and everyone is distorted to appear as if he was still surving under the command of the Emperor's Impirium, killing brethren that in his eyes are the monsters he so lawfully obeys. The only thing that awaits him is the exaltations and honors devised by a mind too weak to accept the truth..... Yeah, I need sleep. :p

Avaron
07-05-2009, 03:31
Gregor isenhorn once noted that the scariest part about the demonic book he was holding was the fact that it didnt feel evil it just felt like a book. he had been near chaos artifacts that litteraly dripped evil but this thing which was more dangerous than all those combind seemed like nothing more than paper and ink.

Ubermensch Commander
07-05-2009, 03:37
Its possible. Though usually...its because they are weak willed or foolish that they become corrupt.

Or exceptionally RETARDED as in the case of the Soul Drinkers novel. Obvious mutations?! SWEET! Blessings of the Emperor!...........how the **** does one come to THAT conclusion?

Vet Sergeant Leander
07-05-2009, 03:38
In fluff there's been references to populations that have been manipulated into serving chaos where the imperial cult has been infiltrated and over time has been warped into the worship of chaos. So if your just a humble joe serf of the congregation then its definately possible

Pooky
07-05-2009, 04:07
If it is possible to follow Chaos when you think you're doing "the right thing" then how can one be sure that they are infact doing "the right thing"? And this would be nice to figure out before either the mutations start of there is a grey knight knocking at your front door asking to search the premises without a warrent...

Drogmir
07-05-2009, 05:07
I remember in the Siege of Vraks part 1.

The common worker rebel thinks he's just fighting for their leader who wants freedom and they adorn their armor with Chaos symbols with no idea what they actually mean.

I think they've been lacking in their "Recognizing your Inner Heretic 101" classes

Griffin
07-05-2009, 06:36
I think up to a point you can follow chaos and not know it. But after a certain point in your worship I think chaos would start to corrupt you so badly that you WILL actively start fighting the imperium, and Sacrificing those around you to futher your goals.

Condottiere
07-05-2009, 07:12
Classically, if you behave selfishly, you might be assisting Chaos. Assisting and following might not necessarily be the same. You have to deviate at at some point to actually follow it - the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and it is quite possible that in the course of getting there, the minor infractions aren't taken note of.

genestealer_baldric
07-05-2009, 07:37
Of course you can just look at the ultramarines
...
....
.....
......

What??

Tonberry
07-05-2009, 19:19
Think about it:
Have you ever squished a spider?
Walked along a beach, seen an attractive member of the opposite sex and though 'phoar!'
Farted in an elevator and though 'mmmmm'
Tripped up and continued on your way as if you'd planned it all along?

Yeah. Now you're worried.
Heretic.

gamer2456
07-05-2009, 19:35
like Drogmir said, in the Siege of Vraks, the workers were told that the enemies invading were the heretics. It wasnt until a little bit into the war when they realized what was really going on, by then it was too late. Now, many are now active Khorne or Nurgle worshippers

Hasan ibn Sabbah
07-05-2009, 20:19
Pawns of Chaos.
All culture worshiping Tzeenth (as good, protective god), being attacked by Imperium witch burned their villages, killed man and kids, raped women. The thing is they didn't wanted to fight Imperium, just wanted to live. And the daemon they called for help was Angel that could save them from cruel Imperium.

Let's say that concept of evil chaos is developed by Imperium, but countless cultures can worship chaos gods as good deities (Khorn could be god of warriors, Tzeenth is natural patron of all shamans, Slanesh as patron of artists, papa Nurgle as the god you ask for help when you get bad wound). With weak warp activity, you don't have to turn in 1 hour into mad berseker or bloated zombie-thing only because you make one prayer to Khorne for strength in battle.

Siure when chaos cults hidden in Imperum go to extremum, but it takes 200-300 years and starts as some innocent club (like fight club or fetish club). Life in Imperium is boring and strict enough to make such things popular.

Ubermensch Commander
07-05-2009, 22:51
Think about it:
Have you ever squished a spider?
Walked along a beach, seen an attractive member of the opposite sex and though 'phoar!'
Farted in an elevator and though 'mmmmm'
Tripped up and continued on your way as if you'd planned it all along?

Yeah. Now you're worried.
Heretic.

*waves hand dismissively*
Oh that's just Chaos trying to cover its collective amount of failure with "it all serves Chaos" or "its all according to plan!"

No it doesn't, no it isn't.

Gork/Mork, Emperor, and the Eldar gods. That Psychic energy does not go all to the Chaos Gods. Not all violence feeds Khorne, not all decay feeds Nurgle, etc.

As for the Plan..well...the galaxy still remains un Chaosed up, so i think they might have encountered a hitch or two with that whole grand scheme thing.:D

Pooky
08-05-2009, 02:02
Gork/Mork, Emperor, and the Eldar gods. That Psychic energy does not go all to the Chaos Gods. Not all violence feeds Khorne, not all decay feeds Nurgle, etc.

I was under the impression that all the Eldar gods were "aspects" of the Chaos gods...?

And where would the C'tan gods fit into this? Is it possible for a fleshy human to worship a C'tan?

Arakanis
08-05-2009, 03:15
I was under the impression that all the Eldar gods were "aspects" of the Chaos gods...?

And where would the C'tan gods fit into this? Is it possible for a fleshy human to worship a C'tan?

The Eldar Deities predate Chaos by quite a bit. Eldar myth has Khaine fighting alongside the Old Ones in the War of Heaven against the Nightbringer and the Necrontyr.

...the C'tan aren't really interested in being worshiped really. They might think it amusing at first, and then harvest your soul for a snack.

Col. Dash
08-05-2009, 03:16
Seeing as 99% of the Imperium doesnt know chaos exists, then yes its very possible. Its not as if the Imperium is giving "Stay away from Cults" classes like they give here. There was a great piece of fluff years ago about this guy who was the brother of an Imp preacher who got in with an organized crime syndicate. After a ceremony of some sort, the enforcers were issued rainbow colored shuri-cats and proceded to begin eliminating the competition. Grey Knights appeared, pew pew pew, and he was the last one left alive and begged and pleaded that he has seen the light and he was going to become a preacher like his brother etc etc. The inquisitor said there was one more daemon left to destroy and the grey knight raised his bolt pistol and ended the story.
I remember older stories of the fantasy world where even in the Empire there was apowerful but small order of knights who worshipped Khorne under a different name as a martial god of honor and they were good guys, because that used to be one of Khornes pantheons before GW dumbed him down to the one sided kiddy khorne that exists today..

ARVO
08-05-2009, 03:26
Read "Legion" From the Horus Heresy series

Cool_Mint
08-05-2009, 17:48
If there are Gods of Chaos where are the Gods of Order? Surely there must be a God of paperwork and queing?

But anyway, who is to say the Emperor isn't the true villain of the story? Just because he says he's the good guy doesn't make it so.

Join the Movementarians!

Condottiere
08-05-2009, 20:43
For some reason, the warp seems to be composed of the four primary emotional vortexes, who express themselves in malevolent ways; minor gods of order seem to be able to be formed by drawing to themselves the more benevolent aspects from the primary vortexes.

Warforger
09-05-2009, 05:01
I do believe that Khorne always is pleased, even if your a Grey Knight he loves you

Imperialis_Dominatus
09-05-2009, 06:01
With Horus on the golden throne isn't the whole Imperium worshipping Chaos?

Now i've really screwed with your minds.

No you haven't. Cause it's not true.


...the C'tan... harvest your soul

FFFFFUUUUUUUUU-

Griffin
09-05-2009, 06:31
...the C'tan aren't really interested in being worshiped really. They might think it amusing at first, and then harvest your soul for a snack.


*epic face palm*

ManOfRust
10-05-2009, 14:35
Tzeench is the god of both paperwork and queing, masquerading under such guises as Triplicatus - Lord of the Copy Kept for Records and Yawehactuelleemoving? - Master of the Front of The Que!

Tzeench delights in intricate planning and labyrinthine bureaucracy, the hope that drives men through loopholes and endless tasks of hardship, making rules, bending and breaking them to finally achieve their goals knowing full well that each milestone achieved is meaningless compared to the ones that ever lie ahead.

Those who would worship him in these forms are however commonly thwarted by Khorne in his guise as Walter, the god of frustration and impatience and Nurgle the ever-present god of fear and despair in never finishing your mind-numbing tasks.

In the 40k universe there may be any number of gods of 'order', deities of the harvest, of wisdom or of war but they all draw on the psyches and belief of their worshippers and contributers pooling in the Warp and in the warp chaos lives. All gods find their roots in the deepest depths of the Warp in one, or several of the great gods of chaos.

Dhazzakull
12-05-2009, 08:47
Yes it is possible to worship c'tan, but the C'tan don't realy get anything from beeing worshiped, they are physical beeings who are not linked to the warp.

The only thing he would do to anyone who is so stupid to worship him, is sucking the life out of that idiot.