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DarkestLight
07-05-2009, 07:26
Tell me what you think..

greyseer, eye of the horned rat 260pts
warlock engineer, blades, accumulator, condensor, storm daemon, scroll 145pts
chieftain, bsb, warbanner 95pts
assassin, warpstone throwing stars 155pts

20 clanrats, musician, ratling gun 165pts
20 clanrats, musician, ratling gun 165pts
24 stormvermin, c/m/s, shields, banner of the swarm, ratling gun 321pts
3 packs giant rats 90pts
3 packs giant rats 90pts
10 night runners 50pts
10 night runners 50 pts
8 globadiers 80pts
4 rat swarm bases 180pts

5 jezzails 100pts
5 jezzails 100pts
4 rat ogres 200pts

army total = 2,248pts

this army has beaten the new WoC, DE and Lizzies, still have trouble with vamps.

the idea is to tie them up and shoot/magic them to death, using the overrun of enemy into my units count as immune to pshc rule and blast away at there expensive things.

Darkestlight

ivrg
07-05-2009, 08:22
Rat swarms suck if they aint got poison and they cost to much as it is right now. I would drop the assasin and take a cheiftain with nbands of power and ASF weapon. Although there might be better options. Use plague monks, they are better than stormvermin as it stands now.

I would suggest you wait with skaven till they get a new book. They are a bit weak as it is now. I mostly play WE and maybe the only thing i would fear with you army is jezzails, globadirs and the magicians.

fubukii
07-05-2009, 09:36
overal id say the list is very iffy as far as the power scale of skaven go.

SKavens main strengths are the following: SIN, CR, SHOOTING, MAGIC, Cheap redirecting units, SHooting into combat
Weaknesses: Support units/small units generally are easy to panic/fear/terror (see rat ogres, PWG, Night runners) which you have generally made easier for your enemy to exploit. ALmost no muscle in cc (only warlord, Plague priest with censer, and PCB are any good in combat)

-SIN (strength in numbers) your army is extremely low leadership, minus the stormvermin (who are a waste of points but i will get to that later) if you lose a single model you are down to ld8 within general range on top of only having CR3-4. this is totally unaccapetable for a army that doesnt kill things in combat.
- not enough units.
- Next point Your army has no skaven slaves? Im not sure why as they are a staple in any skaven army and you should have at least 1 unit per unit of clanrats. 54 pts for a unit with of 25 with musician, they can hold thier own vs weaker other static cr units, and are great at baiting and redirecting.
- Grey seers are decent generals ( i generally prefer a warlord for ld10 but a grey seer is a good choice in a heavy magic army), but yours is kitted out poorly, No ward save, no regen, no warpstone charm (i personally like this on my storm daemon warlock but its great on a grey seer as well) even with Lead from the back you will see that with throwing Warped lightning and tokens he will take alot of wounds fast. the tenberous
- cloak help prevents him from becoming fryed rat as does the Regeneration item which name escapes me at this time.
- Assassin, generally a waste of points id much rather have another warlock which will allow your grey seer to cast spells easier.
- giant rats, not bad basically clanrats without armor and +1 move, not as good as slaves overal. make ok flankers i guess.
- stormvermin cost as much as a clanrat and 2 slaves. the problem is in every instance its better to have the 2-3 extra units then to have these guys. All you really get is +1 to your save which isnt a big deal 99% of the time when you could have a extra 25 models in your army, which means another unit to try and flank the more the better (although i will admit the warbanner+swarm banner combo can be pretty nice and is the only reason id ever consider using them but generally id rather have my enemy at -4 cr)
- night runners i dont get the point of these in your list, they arent good in combat y any means they and they are easy to panic. I usually take them as a small 5 man unit to either make my enemy deploy more units at the start, to screen my ratling guns/wlc, and maybe a small redirecter/charge blocker. with 10men stron they will probably end up panicing your line.
- 8 globes in 1 unit? kinda poor overal they are, 8 shots 4 hits 2 wounds? if shooting into combat 1 wound. for 80 pts thats not very effective, again i like these in smaller units of 2 a good throw down unit at deployment ( gaining a bigger advantage in the deployment phase) can contest corners, redirect, and can still throw into combat (although as you sen not that effectively)
- rat swarms, overpriced and kinda pointless atm they crumble way to fast.
- jezzails are great, but work bests in bulk. 5 man units of jezzails are ok but be cautious they panic very easy and having only 10 may not pack the punch you are hoping for.
- rat ogres if you insist on taking a ogre sized unit in your skaven army take ironguts as a dow unit. they are better then rat ogres in everyway. Higher str, save, bull charge, dont panic as easily, and less points.
- no way to kill warmachines. Tunnelers are great at killing cannons and organ guns and the like. In addition they are good at assassinating enemy mages, or helping kill weaker units. Can also take on light units by themselves. I generally field them in 4-6 man units.
- Lack of WLC. IM not sure why you dont have at least one the ability to shoot into combat with randomizing is worth it alone. It also helps kill knights and large creatures.
- Ratling guns are extremely easy to kill, you have 180 pts invested into 3 models with 1 wound each almost no armor to speak of. any army with shooting or range will off these fast (can be delayed by having a small PWG or night runner screen but hills and non los magic will still dominate them) Granted if they make it alive they do cause alot of damage.

DarkestLight
08-05-2009, 09:46
Why bother kitting out a grey seer with defense items, im never going to see combat, ihave never lost a wizard to any combats, and at 260 pts for a lvl 4 wizard with still two built in powerstones i think hes great for his points.

Stormvermin are a must, there 3+ armosr save in combat is key to fighting todays armies, i don't know how many times rollings 5's has saved me vs cavalry. and as to the use PM comment why there frenzied with t4 and no armor, id rather have the armor and control of my very poor fighters.

After a few test games the giant rats are swithing to slaves so ill add 2 units of 25 slaves with musicians insted of giant rats.

In my gaming group if you shoot and magic any of my opponets to death they just glare at you at the end of the game, and trust me i have a darkelf army this one is nice compared to it.

The rat ogres have left the building in for a tunneling team and more Jezzails.

And you cant snipe out the weaposn teams anymore due to an eratra on Gw web site they can only be targeted if they are the closest target. so ther not a waste. the WLC is really bad in my opinion yes ability to shoot threw terrain is good but ive lost to many to one Giant eagle or a unit of flyers since it always has to flee. And i ment to divide the globadiers into two groups typed the army at 4am so was tired. lol

And for power scale this is my fun army i play this list to have fun and zap a few guys including myself lol, so for power gaming i don't take this.

thanks for the replies.

DL

fubukii
09-05-2009, 02:08
well yes if you are being attacked by a unit the Extra 1 save may help but if you have 2 extra units you can stop those cav from hitting home and opening up a flank charge. WLCs also need to be screened to be effective, but protected properly can absolutely be devastating! ( been playing skaven since 5th ed and once i started using these lovely WLCs i havent gone back!)

as for the grey seer your right he wont die in combat often remember though with lead from the rtear you dont have los for your spells, so no WL. grey seers normally die from miscasts and warped lightning spells gone wrong (hence the 3+ ward save vs magic missles is great)

but with your amount of units im not sure why anyone isnt getting into combat with your mages. as for the ratling gun they just changed that like a week ago so forgive me for not being used to it yet :)

petpetpetpet
09-05-2009, 10:51
I agree with the dude with the funky avatar here.


Why bother kitting out a grey seer with defense items

Encase you miscast or roll a 1 on the warplightning spell/chunk.


Stormvermin are a must, there 3+ armosr save in combat is key to fighting todays armies, i don't know how many times rollings 5's has saved me vs cavalry. and as to the use PM comment why there frenzied with t4 and no armor, id rather have the armor and control of my very poor fighters.

Yeah they're tough, they get done over at range just as fast as your regular clanrat though. It is honestly better to have lots of clanrats/slaves, cheap skirmishing units as thats what skaven is allabout. I've been using stormvermin recently yeah they don't seem to die too easily, but you really need the extra units with Skaven to win imo.


And you cant snipe out the weaposn teams anymore due to an eratra on Gw web site they can only be targeted if they are the closest target

Oh my god! really! where? :p

Erie Ed
09-05-2009, 21:26
read the FAQ/Errata on the GW skaven site it goes into detail about that

fubukii
10-05-2009, 11:00
yes apparently they changed the faq ruling that they had made a couple of years ago just randomly out of the blue. Kind of odd but i guess i cant complain :)