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View Full Version : Tau Background Rumours; More Merchenaries in WD?



Cyberjankie
22-12-2005, 14:33
After a newspost about that at Spaerentor.com, here is the original post from TauOnline (http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=14282.0)


heard a recent rumour on a 40k site and then from a manager, so who knows if its true but...
apparently the tau empire codex has been seen in the US- and what has been cautiosly revealed is, fluff wise,
Empire has dozens of new colonies, but dozens of new warzones- especially Nimbosa (which will tie into the Dark Crusade) this has lead to a mass modification in tech and the way tau view war- culture change

with the death of more ethereals the empire is now more suspicious, and not as naive. they give less chance for diplomacy, especially with humans, and respond with a strike

O'shovah story is revealed, not chaos related- thats all that was spilled despite constant begging, i think some of us even cried...

as mentioned before, there are going to be "plugs" for new merc races, don't take literally but apparently the projected aliens that will show up in White Dwarf- although probably not models- (related to tau): Tarrelians, hrud, Demierg, human mercenaries, and some kind of fish race... besides that they want to go ahead with Dan Abnettes weird alien chaos mercenaries the Iixotl.
a grain of salt...

About the spelling: Think "Iixotl" means Loxatl and "Demierg"=Demiurg ;) More merchs sound cool, but without models? And I don't like the idea of Tau being less diplomatic and more agressive...

TheShadow3s
22-12-2005, 14:42
More auns dieng possible traitors or assasins ?
I heard thet too form expanding the empire will also get an updated star map from the new empire they get a third sphere now controlled by shadowsun , so tua are really plunging in this war now they so going to get in the major conflicts with more races than with iperium only :p

Samoth
22-12-2005, 14:45
I'd like to see some real background for tau colonies defending themselves from the scout fleets of Leviathan.

Lostanddamned
22-12-2005, 14:54
and some kind of fish race...

Fishmen you mean?

to be taken with salt methinks.

Sephiroth
22-12-2005, 16:06
I'd really like Engel or Brimstone's confirmation or refute of this.

A neutral shade of black.
22-12-2005, 16:10
Yay, Tau are being gothic'd by GW to make them just as bland and uninteresting as every other race! Huzzah! Thank you, GW! :rolleyes:

Was that obvious enough sarcasm?

Anyway, on-topic: we already know that gue'la aren't in the codex and will possibly be the object of a later CA article revision. Add that to the fact that the Tau empire is constantly expanding and evolving, there's no reason for us to not get the additional official extra unit.

xerxeshavelock
22-12-2005, 16:40
Fishmen you mean?

to be taken with salt methinks.

Or a squeeze of Lemon?

Zabuza
22-12-2005, 16:46
Hmmm.....don't know if I'm happy with this change. I liked the other Tau much better. I hope most of this is false.

Lostanddamned
22-12-2005, 16:47
Fishmen you mean?

to be taken with salt methinks.


Or a squeeze of Lemon?

And possibly some parsley, boiled potatoes and tartar sauce.

Drool
22-12-2005, 16:50
Anyway, on-topic: we already know that gue'la aren't in the codex and will possibly be the object of a later CA article revision. Add that to the fact that the Tau empire is constantly expanding and evolving, there's no reason for us to not get the additional official extra unit.

Forgive me, I'm not a Tau player, but by Gue'la you mean humans, right? If there's to be no humans, how do you explain this:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/chapterapproved/tau%2Dauxiliaries/

Perhaps I'm off base here and if so, I appologise.

Wrath
22-12-2005, 16:52
They are still CA they just arn't in the new Codex.

Mars
22-12-2005, 16:56
Hm, I'm guessing they'll make one of of those CA approved things that no one ever uses, like that monster article (poisonous toads, Catachan Devils, warp travelling lizards???), or those abhuman doctrines. Most likely unofficial too. That, or it'll be underpowered (Human Auxiliaries were never really an alternative to Fire Warriors, or even Kroot for that fact). Otherwise they'd mess with the new army structure too much. And why make rules for something they can't make money on?

Alpharius
22-12-2005, 17:03
Fishmen you mean?

to be taken with salt methinks.

So, you're saying Saltwater Fishmen are confirmed, but not Freshwater Fishmen?:p

xerxeshavelock
22-12-2005, 17:09
You ever notice that all the alternatives to Fire Warriors have a disadvantage? That must be intentional - an army where the mercs were better than the "host" codex would hardly feel right. I think the idea is that while the merc races are great in the right circumstances the Fire Warrior should still be your staple. I think it's been executed quite skillfully, am waiting to see what the Vespid morale rules are to see if they bear my theory out.

Freshwater Fishmen would be overpowered imo.

tartek
22-12-2005, 17:55
me too. Then I would know whcih target for my vindicare to put his red dot of sparkiness on.

Brimstone
22-12-2005, 18:22
The thread is getting a bit spamlike or fishlike lets cut it out please.

Now onto the 'rumour' the new codex does contain details of the 'third sphere expansion' lead by Shadowsun into imperial/disputed areas following the Eye of Terror' events.

O'Shovah's story is NOT revealed and considering the hints made regarding the influences on him I'd dispute the comments made.

As to the rest we may get some additional information in WD but the comments made sound more like wishful thinking than accurate rumour.

cspo
22-12-2005, 19:06
Hopefully not off-topic, but gue'la as a unit aren't all that bad. Especially in smaller battles, say 750. I use them in 6-8 man squads, as a markerlight platform. They also offer lots of great modelling opportunities. I don't really like the whole "half cadian/half tau" bit hybrids some people tend to make, I just use the original necromunda Van Saars and some eschers, even a eldar ranger. The idea is to make it a mercenary unit, so I think they look better with their own personalities.

Akhenaton
22-12-2005, 19:38
Most times that the Dev's promise to follow up on something in the WD it never happens. Look at the debacle with the drone rules, two years to clear up something that a simple CA article could have fixed.

Whatever's in the codex is pretty much going to that for the next 6 years.

Don't hold your breath.

Mojaco
22-12-2005, 21:06
Well, we did have a abhuman list not too long ago so it might be true.

I don't see why people complain about the new view of the Tau towards humans. Why would they still negotiate with the human race? They should go ahead and kick them in the nuts. They're still vastly different from other races since this time it's the human's own fault they've got an enemy. I likes them.

They shouldn't get any bigger though. Let someone else beside the Imperium lose some ground for once!

Wrath
22-12-2005, 22:03
Well, we did have a abhuman list not too long ago so it might be true.

I don't see why people complain about the new view of the Tau towards humans. Why would they still negotiate with the human race? They should go ahead and kick them in the nuts. They're still vastly different from other races since this time it's the human's own fault they've got an enemy. I likes them.

They shouldn't get any bigger though. Let someone else beside the Imperium lose some ground for once!

We don't have the ground to lose. I agree with the new stance, but I bet it is in reguards to the imperium not humans in general.

MIGHTYPanhead
22-12-2005, 22:06
They shouldn't get any bigger though. Let someone else beside the Imperium lose some ground for once!


amen! with the amount of ground taken from the imperium, i'm beginning to wonder how they keep it together. I mean, all these new empires are.. how big?

*sigh* maybe it's just to make every army seem the 'best'

Easy E
22-12-2005, 22:25
More Mercenaries would only be a good thing. It could also dove-tail nicely into the Alienhunters codex. Then, GW could use these mercenaries as R&D into more 40K races. We could have them start as a Merc unit and evolve into new lists. This was how Necrons and Kroot Mercenary lists began. I think it would be wonderful.

However, I think this rumor is patently untrue.

Sephiroth
22-12-2005, 23:59
They shouldn't get any bigger though. Let someone else beside the Imperium lose some ground for once!

13th Black Crusade results, Tau Empire expanded at to 133.6%. They started at a 100, with the highest they could reach being 200, and the lowest 0.

Therefore, they have expanded by a bit. Also, keeping them the same size or even losing space would fly in the face of all the effort Tau players put intp their campaign gaming.

Mojaco
23-12-2005, 00:04
I know current Tau shouldn't be made smaller, but I don't want to see them getting bigger with each codex. I know it's somewhat sad to think about a future codex edition, but I just wanted to have it sad...

(Evil)Ash
23-12-2005, 01:04
I think we'll see a revision on those human merchenaries, but that'll be about it. GW always make a lot of promises for WD material when a new 'dex comes out, but most of that stuff never sees the light of day (like those WH stuff they promised or even those 'hyper detail' rules for 40k).

greetz,:evilgrin:

Randallw
23-12-2005, 02:19
The latest Oz WD has an article on Sebastian Stuarts Tau army along with a page on his auxiliaries, Gue'la, Naga and Shea'shi (sort of lions, I think he used beastmen heads). Anyway it says WD will feature them and more in an upcoming issue. Perhaps a hint at auxiliaries rules.

Sephiroth
23-12-2005, 02:27
The latest Oz WD has an article on Sebastian Stuarts Tau army along with a page on his auxiliaries, Gue'la, Naga and Shea'shi (sort of lions, I think he used beastmen heads). Anyway it says WD will feature them and more in an upcoming issue. Perhaps a hint at auxiliaries rules.

So that's what he's been doing! I knew Tael was up to something! :cool:

So, anywhere to view this on the 'net? Also is it the newest WD, or an upcoming one?

A neutral shade of black.
23-12-2005, 09:41
So that's what he's been doing! I knew Tael was up to something! :cool:

So, anywhere to view this on the 'net? Also is it the newest WD, or an upcoming one?

Tael's getting WD exposure and possibly official rules? What the...? He's kept quiet about this.

Traitor! We'll have your head off, Tael! :P

Randallw
23-12-2005, 10:33
It was in the latest WD (January). They have a thing where they ask people to send them pictures of their army in Australia and if it's good enough send in the army. I considered it but then they broke all my GD entries.

Christine
23-12-2005, 10:40
I'll second the request for where can I see the Oz article online?

philbrad2
23-12-2005, 11:05
...and some kind of fish race..

HAHAHAHAHA 40K fishmen .... I was waiiting for this to surface someday. Ohh I nearly wet myself!:evilgrin:

A 'darker' Tau background, hmm plausible.

As to all the other Xenos races currently mentioned being allied to the Tau Empire and lumped in with CA type articles/armylists I'm taking with more than a smidgon of sodium chloride.

GW are steering away from a plethora of CA articles gamers will been to carry with them if they play such races. The recent Wargear book is a further streamlining of this ethos. As long as you've an accurate armylist, the Wargear book (an a knowledge of its inaccuracies :) ) then you can play the game with no other codices required. To turnaround and say GW are producing a series of Xenos CA listsis totally at odds with this. Possibly a Codex: Xenos minidex or CA annual perhaps.

Anyone seen Alpha Legion anywhere??;)


Forgive me, I'm not a Tau player, but by Gue'la you mean humans, right? If there's to be no humans, how do you explain this:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/chapterapproved/tau%2Dauxiliaries/

Perhaps I'm off base here and if so, I appologise.

Not disputing the Human Aux they are proabably the first such race to be added to the Tau after the original codex (and Kroot) came out. As mentioned they are still CA based and not included in the new 'dex.



:chrome:

t-tauri
23-12-2005, 11:28
Human auxiliaries are in the Imperial Armour 3 book.

Mojaco
23-12-2005, 16:55
The Chapter Approved bits will continue to be, but they'll just say they're unofficial. Which I think is just fine. Never met a person who'd complain about that.

Sure, can't take it to tournament, but most of the times these lists are for modelers and not tournament players.

Though I would love to take that new Ahriman's Chosen unit for 1K Sons to a GD.

Captain Stuart
23-12-2005, 20:27
If Shadowsun led the Third sphere expansion, why is her Ethereal mentor so old? Is this Aun'va going to be another Farsight with an unexplained age discrepancy? I can't see Auns using the multiple-people-with-the-same-name excuse.

Brimstone
23-12-2005, 23:03
I'm not sure what you mean Aun'va is old and the most senior living Ethereal, Shadowsun is fairly? young I don't see the problem.

About the only discrepency is Farsight who's fluff on his age has been dropped IIRC.

Tom
23-12-2005, 23:23
Actually I like the idea of 'If you have this title you are this person'. Like they're more playing a role than being a part of society. There might be multiple Tau having held the Aun'Va position, but to the Tau they are oone and the same. The position is more important than the vessel it manifests in.

my_name_is_tudor
23-12-2005, 23:44
getting dangerously close to the pope analogue though ay.

He Who Laughs
23-12-2005, 23:45
Sorry to bust the bubble about the latest Tau army showcase in Oz WD - but the auxillary conversions (of which the Naga look snake- or fish-like) are purely that - conversions that are used as "Counts As" FireWarriors. There is a comment that some of his other auxillary conversions will be showcased in later WD's.

These subsequent articles could possiblely contain CA rules - but highly doubtful. Though with enough interest, it wouldn't be unreasonable that they produce them at some point.

Oh, and seeing that UK/Europe/US/Canada WD's probably wont see the showcase - goto www.eastern-empire.com to see the pics of the army, its his personal website.

EDIT: Apologies www.eastern-empire.com doesn't actually contain photos of his army (except some grayscle ones of the frontpage. Oh well, another reason why it sucks not to be Australian!! :D

KingNova3000
24-12-2005, 01:53
I too have an early copy of the Australian WD, and the Tau showcase army is brilliant, I doubt anyone will find it online as the WD issue isn't even officially out.

Randallw
24-12-2005, 02:13
Even though I have little interest in Tau, I still think it's a good article. He's done a great job with his tanks. I have some trouble with the knifefight diorama though. I mean it's good, but I thought Tau avoided stuff like knife fights.

Shas'El Tael
24-12-2005, 03:05
With regard to mercenary races and so on, my converted alien auxilaries sparked alot of interest in the Australian studio. A few of the team here and in the UK have been lobbying for some chapter approved articles with a xenos merc theme for awhile now. What that will bring, who knows. ;)

As to Eastern Empire, that would be my guys :)

Also, if you look closely, the IG guy (in my duel) is a white-stripe. ie. low weapon skill ;)

Thanks for your thoughts, it was fun to put together amongst my work commitments. My cadre grew 250% inside of a month and a half. For now you can see some of the guys here;

http://www.the-scythes.com/tau.html

I am looking forward to getting EE.com up an running fully.

~ Tael.

Cyberjankie
24-12-2005, 05:06
Whould be very nice, if you could upload more pic's, because your alien-merchs stuff sound very cool and this Gue'Naga looks damn nice :chrome:

Pfreck
24-12-2005, 08:04
Forgive me, I'm not a Tau player, but by Gue'la you mean humans, right? If there's to be no humans, how do you explain this:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/chapterapproved/tau%2Dauxiliaries/

Perhaps I'm off base here and if so, I appologise.
Well those are Gue'Vesa or Human Auxilaries, trapped by the Tau and they must work for them or else they die! :p
well there's a guy on Tau Online who mades other Auxilaries like;
Behold the Shea'Shi!:
http://www.eastern-empire.com/forums/sheashi_wip.jpg
and the Naga'la:
http://www.eastern-empire.com/forums/naga_group.jpg
i realy like the ''wolfish'' auxilaries :)

~ Ko'vash

[EDIT]
oh i just see the post above from my bud Tael, he makes them.

Dvalin
24-12-2005, 08:25
Hm. Gotta say that the antenna on the head of the Sauroids look a bit suspect -- as do the rather barrel-like torsos. ;) Otherwise, though, quite ace!

my_name_is_tudor
24-12-2005, 11:38
Those are Tael's, IIRC.

Love the Shea'Shi

KingNova3000
24-12-2005, 13:13
Those pics are the one from Sebastian, the Aussie creator of the Tau showcase models in Jan.'s WD. The wolfish ones are actually ment to be lions created from converted beastmen heads.

KingNova3000
24-12-2005, 13:14
Even though I have little interest in Tau, I still think it's a good article. He's done a great job with his tanks. I have some trouble with the knifefight diorama though. I mean it's good, but I thought Tau avoided stuff like knife fights.

The prefer not to get into knife fights, but I think when it comes to a life of death situation you cant get too picky.

Cyberjankie
24-12-2005, 13:32
Oh Jesus! :eek: That's some of the most exciting and impresive 40K stuff, I've ever seen! Just wow, so inspiring... Can you give us please more pics or links :rolleyes:

mace
24-12-2005, 14:29
Shas'O Sa'Cea Tael (http://www.the-scythes.com/tau.html)
Eastern Empire (http://www.eastern-empire.com/)
[WIP] Tau Auxiliaries - Naga'la and Shea'Shi - Tau Online (http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=12815.0)

And also have a look around Tau Online, I'm sure he had more stuff there, I just can't find it at the moment

my_name_is_tudor
24-12-2005, 19:12
Those pics are the one from Sebastian, the Aussie creator of the Tau showcase models in Jan.'s WD.

Sebastian and Tael are one in the same, I think.

Tom
24-12-2005, 20:01
Hm. Gotta say that the antenna on the head of the Sauroids look a bit suspect -- as do the rather barrel-like torsos. ;) Otherwise, though, quite ace!

Ah, it's because the antennae are actually parts of their heads with plating stuck over them!

boogle
24-12-2005, 20:26
love those Auxilliaries, hopefully GW might pick up on some of those ideas

Rich 123
24-12-2005, 20:31
Bleh, how boring and typical.

I guess we shoudl have seen it that the Tau would be made more agressive. Just as I was thinking a diplomatic Tau diorama might be a fun undertaking. GW make them boring and plainly militaristic as every other race. Alot of the races have justification in being warlike - the eldar who are dying out seem to busilly throw their dwindling resources of man power (eldar power?) at every fight they can find.

Now the one race they could have justfied not fighting because of their coherant organisation, the placid guidance from the Caste fo Auns an being able to rely on their fearsome weaponary as a deterrant.

I dont hold with the argument to make the Tau more gothic. As any (decent) painter would tell you a contrast can help define a colour scheme far more and make it pop so this holds true in this circumstance with the history. If every race is warlike and aggressive then there is little differance between each. If there is one that sint it throws the others into contrast and makes each all the more interesting and dynamically different.

Although I guess I should have seen that coming *no-one* likes the not-gothic Tau because "they dont fit in" :rolleyes:

Bah, shieks of laziness here rather than just pushing the idea into something different. And the new Tau minis I think are dull and boring. Leanign towards the over the top blinging up of minitures rather than juts making a cleaner less cluttered mini. Clutter doesnt make a mini good, nor does it define it. It just clutters it - sometimes this fits, sometimes it doesnt. In the case of the Tau it really doesnt with their old fluff. The pope mobile looks silly and the stealth suits are just terrible in my humble opinion. Pointlessly bulky and silly lookign with a helmet that is so reminiscant of the lense cluster of those terroist LandMates in the anime film Appleseed. ANd the totally redundant second hand the had a use with the smaller (much stealthier looking) stealth suits.

Anyway, sorry. [/rant]

But Tau seem to be becomming something opposite to what they once were. An idea I liked when they were released and seems to be fast sliding towards something I dislike. These things happen I guess- which is a shame.

Rich

my_name_is_tudor
24-12-2005, 20:49
I think you are taking one or two small comments a little far, don't you think? Just because the Tau are now quite suspicious of humas (who are very unpredictable and warlike) doesn't mean they are becoming overtly warlike themselves.

And as one of those lot that think 40k should be 'gothic', I must say that personally I don't think that the Tau aren't, I like the tau, I think they fit in fine with the gothic theme, as long as they're not just painted as 40kanime.

I don't think the tau are "becomming something opposite to what they once were" in any way. I can't see any justification of the thought that they have drastically changed fluff wise at all.

Would you really expect a highly logical and, as you put it, coherantly organised, race to continue extensive diplomacy with a race that has refused to be diplomatic for centuries, and has in fact launched crusades against your race?

themagister
24-12-2005, 21:38
why would there even be a need for a gue'la entry in the codex? theres one on gw online. a good one at that. i hope they dont make official models though, its fun makin em out of catachans and fire warriors.

sanctusmortis
24-12-2005, 22:42
It's pretty obvious that, with the dying of many more of the Ethereals (due to, you know, REAL war revealing their fragility), the Fire Caste would step up. Vior'la has probably become a more prominent world in the process, so things will get more warlike.

I still reckon it'll turn out that Farsight is under the influence of the C'Tan. After all, the Dawn Blade's theirs...

KingNova3000
25-12-2005, 05:41
Sebastian and Tael are one in the same, I think.

They indeed are, not only his Tael is alias but his Tau Shas'o name.

Randallw
25-12-2005, 07:22
You know I am sorely tempted to start a Tau army. Thing is I'm not really into their whole "Greater good" stuff, at least not unless it's for the greater good of humanity. Maybe I can do some sort of Chaos tainted Tau army, which I assume has been done to death. Perhaps a tainted Ethereal leading his renegades for the Chaos gods, or perhaps he rebels against the Tau government.

calmsword
25-12-2005, 07:42
um... so this is pretty much my first time posting on this site- and i noticed that this whole discussion is based on something i posted on the Tauonline.org
first of all i don't want to butt heads with Brimstone, i understand how well he is in the know about the goings of GW. the things he has posted over the years always seem to hit more or less center.
now, just as to what was quoted, it is my understanding by what I have been shown and what has been said to me- note:not via internet so this isn't some spam job- is that the Tau, having faced the Imperium on numerous fronts and having the Damocles Treaty so blatantly ignored during the Gravalax incident including the conflict that broke out on Taros- have become "more agressive" in their dealings with the Imperium. There have been two known Aun's of significance that have been brutally kidnapped/assasinated and this affrontry has shocked the military elements of the Empire to become less naive- i never wished to imply that the Tau were becoming like the Imperium or "gothic," they are still one of the only races that uses diplomacy first and then resort to violence when that option has been exhasted.
as to my plug reference, there is nothing in the codex- i know that 100%, however it has been said that GW wishes to add more aliens without coming up with models- to do this they are going to accomplish their goals in WD, much like the extra doctrines offered to the Guard.
hope i cleared some things up- if there was anything needed clearing
~good hunting

Rich 123
25-12-2005, 11:48
What about just reinforcing their borders then? Rather than openly accepting visitors and diplomats strenghten their control on areas that they see as theirs. Does that not sound liek a peacable and suitably Tau solution?

But no! Lets go out and kill people! Pretned to be a hive fleet! I liked Tau as they were. The pcivity was what defined them for me. That is hwat I was reading into - the lack of any seemign pacivity now. Oh yeah, youc an claim innocence lost and all that, which holds true. But losing your innocence is one thing and gaining a personality attribute, up until now, totally at odds with your society is odd.

Humans have always been warlike and needlessly aggressive. We are by our very nature. The Humans that arent violent an aggressive in some form arent the norm for us. Face it - and that is reflected in the Imperium. And yet the Tau are not - they seem to hold a different perspective on life. The Fire Catse isnt there to mix it up with other races but more to stop others mixing it up with them - a view not entirely coexistant with any nation's/Earth's/Imperium's (depending on which period, either historical, contemporary or future fiction as is the case here, you would like to use) use of military might.

And a race that tries to actively incorporate other races suddenly decides that by 'For The Greater Good' they were really meaning 'For The Greater Good Of The Tau', hmm. Seems to fit right in their with the current established fluff... or not.

Bah I still say as its a shame. Oh and Tudor, if you read what I typed I never said 40k should be more or less gothic. I just said that the fact that there is an altrenative throws the gothic aspects into sharp relief. For instance it always looks a whole lot darker insie your house when youve been outside on a bright day, rather than a cloudy day - wouldnt you say? Same principle there too. These things are a basic tenant of paint and colour theory - being things I know alot about too.

Hope this clarifies my opinion for you a little,
Rich

my_name_is_tudor
25-12-2005, 12:24
Tau expand, that's one of their most important factors as I see it, they are the up-and-coming race, expanding and evolving and advancing quicker than would usually be considered feasibly possible. They are not going to stop expanding just because of humanity, they'll merely take heed of humanty's actions, and take neccessary precautions. If the fluff had said the tau had stopped their expansion and battoned down the hatches, I would have been very dissapointed - as this would have represented to me a considerable breech in the fluff.

I think the tau are almost meant to represent what humanity could have been. They have striking similarites to many human future civilisations from various sci fi works, such as the Commonwealth of the pandora's star/judas unchained books. Expanding at a rate of knots, curious, diplomatic, open minded. - this is what humanity is striving towards, and considering the tau's past warlike history (read the codex, before the ethereals turned up the tau spent a lot of time massacring one another, just like humans), it does fit.

And 'the greater good' has always been 'the greater good of tau'. If it was 'the greater good of all races' would the tau have had such extensive wars with the orks?

I think you are seeing the tau as a diplomatic, humanly reasonable race, when in fact they are not, and where never portrayed as such. The greater good has always been a effort by the tau to unify the galaxy using a scheme that they think is good - they are hardly open to suggestion. From the begining their position has been sign up or ship out - that or be helpful enough to us as you are to justify not joining (in the case of the demiurg).

Rich 123
25-12-2005, 14:19
I have read the codex - that was where I based my opinion from.

By your own logic of justifying wars with humankind wouldnt the even more warliek Orks cause the Tau certain problems that only warfare could solve, at least human kind make a (rather lame) attempt at democracy.

I see the Tau as what communism would be like if humans werent so poorly mentally and sociallly equipped to work under that form of government. Also I dont see the Tau as an exceptionally peacful race but just one that tries to assimilate other races into their society and at the same time, while trying to control their borders they still dont appear to my as a warliek race. The Fire catse is termpered by the guidance of the other catses which have totally different priotrities; Unlike us humans, who are naturally greedy at a base level. Whereas joinign the Tau empire is meant to be an aid to both the Tau and the joinign race. Not just a selfish gaining of territory on the Tau part - as humans have done over our long history - and deep into the future if we believe GW interpretation of the future.

However, this is obviously a differing of opinion so Ill just be quite. This is just teh view that I have of the Tau. As I have their codex I have read that as well, which it seems yout hink I haven't. But GW fluff has always meant (or do I mean happens to be) to be ambigous and as this race is new seems we have come to differing conclusions. I think the changes coming abbout to Tau fluff dont fit my mental image of the Tau, which I think is a shame.

I dont see why you arent entitled to your opinion either though - you know, for the greater good of the forum ;)

Rich

imrhati
25-12-2005, 16:24
The tau are very similar to the communists in the way their economy works. however i find that in war they act more like Gangus Kong and say "join or die." they are in no way peaceful or they would noit have survived more than a year in their universe.

my_name_is_tudor
25-12-2005, 16:52
what do you know of tau economy? I can't think of any tau fluff that indicates anything to do with their economy.

Communism = everyone equal and all with equal ownership of the society's resources. Where does it say tau do this? They are very much not all equal.

And finally, where does it say the tau aren't driven by a base greed. Surely the fluff of the origins says they are, or at least were before the auns arrived.

But as you say, it's all just opinions.

Rich 123
25-12-2005, 17:30
I was referring to human kinds base greed.

But I really dont care enough that much - its all opinion and alot of it is pure conjecture anyway.

Merry Crimbo
Rich

my_name_is_tudor
25-12-2005, 17:50
I know you were talking about human base greed, but in doing so you implied that the tau aren't driven by base tau greed, an argument for which I see no proof, just misinterpretation of some fluff.

But yeah, all conjecture.

I like where tau are headed, and hope they keep heading that way.

imrhati
25-12-2005, 19:45
He knows Tau don't have base greed becuase they strive for the Greater Good which is what they call their empire.

also communists were not all equal. Stroski and i think it was Lenard? dought for power and after Stroksti was chased away by lenard or whatever that guys name was a wealthy class appaered and was treated much better then the rest.

if you don't see the similarities you should get a catscan.

Scorpio
25-12-2005, 19:56
I think this came up somewhere else on the forum too. Yes the Tau have some communist characteritistics but commuism isnt bad its an ideal that we will one day strive to achieve! Without such corrupt leaders as say Stalin communism is a good idea! If not for Stalin We may have been a communist country today!!!

Rich 123
25-12-2005, 21:10
Ive thougth alot about this too.

I liek the idea of communism in theory. Its just it isnt suitable for humans. We arent really compatable with the idea as its almost ingrained in us a selfishness and desire to out do our contemporaries.

And to coin a phrase made famous by George Orwell - some animals are more equal than others. It is a political system made broken by the leaders that have been at their nations heads partly could be attributed to power corrupting yet also partly just because of our very nature. Deep down I thinkt hats true in all of us - if you look beneath the trappings we all conciously/subconciously try and disguise it with.

Rich

Red Scorpion
25-12-2005, 21:34
Trotsky? Lenin?
Whos we? And how might we have been communist? There are varying degrees of communism. True Marxist communism hasn't really occurred...
Chris

Rich 123
25-12-2005, 21:54
'We' as in mankind in general. As an inherantly selfish and being so dedicated to our continued personal self aggrandisement.

Which I find a shame - potentially communism holds so much promise, with a race of people not like humans I think.

Rich

my_name_is_tudor
25-12-2005, 22:01
All the 'bad' communists weren't communists. You think people like Stalin and Mao were really interested in communism? They just used it to exploit the people "equality for all you poor workers (and incredible wealth for me..)".

I don't think Tau are communist at all, and I do think humanity could evolve into it in time, we need to change our opinions on material wealth and stuff, I don't want communism, but I want it for future generations.

Anyway that's off topic.

@imrhati: they strive for "the greater good which is what they call their empire"? Sounds a lot like base greed to me, just under a nice guise.

Hellebore
26-12-2005, 00:52
The tau ARE overtly warlike.

The whole propaganda regarding the 'greater good' and their 'peacful negotiations' is just that, propaganda.

I keep saying this but people prefer to believe something else.

The tau are expansionist and agressive, but rather than the simplistic and brutal wars used by other races they use similar tactics to the USA, political sanctions, embargos, etc.

They use non military means to defeat those that are not overtly violent, but refuse to join them.

DO you really think the tau would have survived had they not conquered other races?

How exactly would they have built an empire if they did not take over planets but rather negotiated truces with them?

The fact is that although the tau do not do things the same way as every other 40k race, they are still not GOOD.

THey are BETTER than the imperium but BETTER does NOT = GOOD.

The lesser of two evils is NOT GOOD.

hellebore

Shinzui
26-12-2005, 01:13
The whole propaganda regarding the 'greater good' and their 'peacful negotiations' is just that, propaganda.

The Greater good isn't propaganda, it's what they believe in. This is stated in many pieces of fluff which are written as with most of GWs newer stuff in a narrative view rather than from imperial perspective.


The tau are expansionist and agressive, but rather than the simplistic and brutal wars used by other races they use similar tactics to the USA, political sanctions, embargos, etc.

expansionist yes, aggressive no. I point you to the subject, alles & mercinaries pice of fluff in BFG Tau fleet.


They use non military means to defeat those that are not overtly violent, but refuse to join them.

How is that evil? It would be evil if the ends of being defeated was something worse than what they currently have but it's not like being part of the Tau empire is painful. In fact Their are a whole list of benefit if not the most important part is that you do not become one of the numberless races destroyed by the Imperium.


DO you really think the tau would have survived had they not conquered other races?

Yes, as so far they have not. Remember that there are 3 million planets according to 40k fluff, the Imperium holds a million spread thinly across the universe. The rest are what hold the other races, Uninhabitated worlds and of course Ork worlds.


How exactly would they have built an empire if they did not take over planets but rather negotiated truces with them?

Colonise the unpopulated ones like they've currently been doing?


The fact is that although the tau do not do things the same way as every other 40k race, they are still not GOOD.

Sure they are, in the same way in that the Imperium and Eldar are good. Their ultimate goal is non-evil (unlike say Chaos or necrons), sure it's not perfect but that's all on your opinion of what good is. The Tau don't want ultimate power or to destroy the galaxy, they want structured order of the greater good which is the main reason it become such a phenomenon in uniting the race, and they want other races to believe in it too.

Randallw
26-12-2005, 01:33
I think the tau are almost meant to represent what humanity could have been. They have striking similarites to many human future civilisations from various sci fi works, such as the Commonwealth of the pandora's star/judas unchained books. Expanding at a rate of knots, curious, diplomatic, open minded.

I suppose the Starflyer is a C'Tan :)

Hellebore
26-12-2005, 01:36
Sure they are, in the same way in that the Imperium and Eldar are good. Their ultimate goal is non-evil (unlike say Chaos or necrons), sure it's not perfect but that's all on your opinion of what good is. The Tau don't want ultimate power or to destroy the galaxy, they want structured order of the greater good which is the main reason it become such a phenomenon in uniting the race, and they want other races to believe in it too.


What I meant was that thanks to the utter gothic emo atmosphere (emosphere :D) of 40k people are used to seeing everything as grey. The tau do not fit the mold and people see that dull yellow compared to grey is so great it appears fluourescent.

It is all in the perspective- compared to the imperium the tau look like boyscout treehippies- but they are not in an ABSOLUTE sense.

Sure, if I lived in the 40k universe, I would rather be with the tau, but that doesn't mean what they do is GOOD, nor does it CONDONE their actions.

They form pacts and negotiate with planets not in their direct line of conquest- you use the mercenaries fluff, I use Nimbosa in the story in the tau codex, where the tau demand the imperials give them the planet they already occupy, or join the greater good.

Hitler formed a nonagression pact with Russia as they were not IN HIS WAY- he was not fighting on the Eastern front so sought to secure that against attack.

When the tactical situation changed, he saw that it would be advantageous to attack in that direction and thus broke the treaty.

The tau will hold with those treaties until it is not in their interest to do so.

The Greater Good is treated like a religion in many respects, and it can (and IS) used to justify anything the tau wish to do- how can you be wrong when it is for the Greater Good?

This reminds me of the quote Star Wars ripped off in Revenge of the Sith- "THe end of democracy is greeted not with a shout but with thunderous applause".

THe tau will not always forcibly convert you, but eventually you will join them, and believe it was always your choice to do so, cheering and applauding all the way.

hellebore

Shinzui
26-12-2005, 01:55
What I meant was that thanks to the utter gothic emo atmosphere (emosphere ) of 40k people are used to seeing everything as grey. The tau do not fit the mold and people see that dull yellow compared to grey is so great it appears fluourescent.

Bleh 40k is not gothic, at most it's merely commercialized as such.


They form pacts and negotiate with planets not in their direct line of conquest- you use the mercenaries fluff, I use Nimbosa in the story in the tau codex, where the tau demand the imperials give them the planet they already occupy, or join the greater good.

You example is flawed

Nimbosa for one had a Imperial outpost on it, second it was done during the damocles crusade just after the time Sy'l'kell was lost and the Attack on Dal'yth 2 years later. That particular piece of fluff was at the begining of the 2 year preparation for the crusade to cross the damocles gulf (which takes 5 months to cross). during this time expiditions were sent to probe the extend of the Tau empire. There were engagements one of them was at Resvar six where the Imperium lost an entire fleet to a Tau trap with the help of the Demiurg. When news of this was recieved by the crusade command the dimplomatic envoy also returned from that Story you used as an example. They informed them that the Tau had far more resources that previously thought.

In light of the information it was deemed that it would be impossible to defend nimbosa and a dozen other colonies from the Tau as long as the Tau could launch strikes from a certain strategic point. That point was dal'yth and that is the reason the Crusade attacked there.

- Reference: BFG "Lithesh War: The Damocles Gulf Crusade" Part I and II

Triceron
26-12-2005, 02:00
The greater good is a belief, but it is also propaganda. This is exactly what Firewarrior, the novel, was based on; Kais finding out the truth behind the greater good through his experiences in battle. Every situation he was in he kept questioning the methods used by the commanders. In the fluff for the Rail Rifle it even shows how the Greater Good is used as a method of control, keeping the Commander from questioning the Ethereal's decisions.

The idealogy of the Greater Good is not communist. Communism involves everyone in a community being equal. The Greater Good is a concept that benefits the whole of the community. The people don't necessary have to be equal in status, they're just all working towards a common goal, which is the "Greater Good". The whole ideal is very focused on the big picture.

In real life, this would apply to small communities that might be working towards a common goal. The Tau are just a fictional example of this sort of thing working in a grand scale.

Shinzui
26-12-2005, 02:09
Fire Warrior is a mockery of 40k Background lore written by a poor writer who did the best he could but 90% of the thing is inaccurate and that'd not including anything to do with space marines.

Hellebore
26-12-2005, 02:20
Bleh 40k is not gothic, at most it's merely commercialized as such.



You example is flawed

Nimbosa for one had a Imperial outpost on it, second it was done during the damocles crusade just after the time Sy'l'kell was lost and the Attack on Dal'yth 2 years later. That particular piece of fluff was at the begining of the 2 year preparation for the crusade to cross the damocles gulf (which takes 5 months to cross). during this time expiditions were sent to probe the extend of the Tau empire. There were engagements one of them was at Resvar six where the Imperium lost an entire fleet to a Tau trap with the help of the Demiurg. When news of this was recieved by the crusade command the dimplomatic envoy also returned from that Story you used as an example. They informed them that the Tau had far more resources that previously thought.

In light of the information it was deemed that it would be impossible to defend nimbosa and a dozen other colonies from the Tau as long as the Tau could launch strikes from a certain strategic point. That point was dal'yth and that is the reason the Crusade attacked there.

- Reference: BFG "Lithesh War: The Damocles Gulf Crusade" Part I and II


You say outpost, but the story says COLONY.

It had families and workers on it.

Irrespective of the outside political situation the planet was not a tau controlled one, was not in tau space and was populated by civilians.

THe ethereal shows the envoy a mock up of Nimbossa and fire warriors learning how to destroy imperial tanks within the cities walls.

THe imperium had a colony on that planet, a planet that the Tau had not PREVIOUSLY owned and thus it was imperial land.

Irrespecitive of the political situation you cannot simply evict people from a planet because 'it is for the greater good'.

They only had two choices- join or die.

If the tau were as good as you say, they would have left CIVILIANS alone.

hellebore

Shinzui
26-12-2005, 02:32
Your saying that counter invading a opponent who is attempting to wipe you out is evil.

Please that's just being silly.

Also the Tau gave the colonists of nimbosa an opportunity to surrender (ref Index Xenos: Tau article in WD263) just like the Imperial guard regiments after the crusade withdrew and they were left behind. Unlike the guard the colonists chose to fight to the last man. Brightsword wiped them out and was recalled back to T'au to be told off by the Ethereals for it (which just predates the events in Kill Team).

The Wraithlord
26-12-2005, 02:33
And after reading the last few pages, I have to wonder what exactly any of this has to do with playing the game. I mean seriously, if you are setting up a game of 40K and your opponent is playing Tau, is your game going to be 'teh suck' because of how the fluff may/may not sound? I also have to wonder, again after reading the last few pages, what all of this has to do with rumours of the new codex or the new units we are going to be using to play the game with. More suited for one of the other boards here I think....

calmsword
26-12-2005, 03:14
i don't think its a bad thing to discuss tau military reaction and where the empire is going.
now concerning Nimbosa- Nimbosa is a Imperial/Tau contested world that has been invaded and counter invaded numerous times. as of late the history is currently- Tau invade, Imperials invade with help of Ultramarine Chapter due to proximity of Greater Imperial space, then Tau invade with Brightsword and he wipes out imperial forces, this leads to another invasion on behalf of the Imperium but there is a new commander there (tau) who has dug himself in. phew... Nimbosa fluff is awsome
~good hunting

Hellebore
26-12-2005, 03:47
Your saying that counter invading a opponent who is attempting to wipe you out is evil.

Please that's just being silly.

Also the Tau gave the colonists of nimbosa an opportunity to surrender (ref Index Xenos: Tau article in WD263) just like the Imperial guard regiments after the crusade withdrew and they were left behind. Unlike the guard the colonists chose to fight to the last man. Brightsword wiped them out and was recalled back to T'au to be told off by the Ethereals for it (which just predates the events in Kill Team).

DO NOT put words into my mouth, that's just being silly.

Counter invading MILITARY is fine, but these were civilians, and if we are going to be all lovey dovey tau are so sweet, then they should protect civilians.

Yes, the tau gave the colonists the opportunity to SURRENDER- not negotiate, not treaty, not be nice and understanding tau, but give us the planet or we will 'wipe you out to the last man' as you say yourself. It was the colonists' planet, not the tau's, but the tau needed it, for the greater good. And woe betide anybody who gets in the way of THAT.

Again I am not arguing that the tau are not PREFERABLE to the imperium, but it does not excuse the fact that when they choose to be, they are just as violent and extreme.

Now I will argue YOUR single piece of evidence- the BFG mercenary fluff.

Nowhere does it mention the strategic importance of the so called 'friends of the tau' those planets they have not captured.

AS I stated previously, you maintain cordial relations with those who are not in your way, until their land is needed.

For all you know (and from all the information that paragraph gives us) the tau found backwater planets with no strategic or economic value and in the interests of their public image, made paper friendly promises of non agression.

THe passage doesn't say they DID, nor does it say they did NOT.

There are NO good guys in 40k, there never has been, and there never will be. It is bad for sales if you put one army above another 'morally', as people prefer to indentify with the 'good guys' rather than those seen as evil.

In 2nd ed 40k the eldar were not overtly arrogant and so were given the moniker of noble, if fickle. People perceived them to be good, as they knew what horrors awaited the universe and were the best positioned to stop it. However this overshadowed the other races, and in 3rd ed they become much more arrogant and remote, as they always had been but not as people thought of them.

The eldar were never meant to be good, nor were the tau.

THe methods the tau employ may be more palatable, but they are still an arrogant if naive, race determined to force all others into social ruin so that only the 'true' belief, that of the greater good, is followed. They disparage the kroot for being cannibals ignoring the fact that it is part of their culture and biology, instead attempting to subversively 'civilise' them and homogenise them into the greater good.

hellebore

Shinzui
26-12-2005, 04:08
Your just starting to speculate based on your own opinion of what the Tau do with no fluff evidence using the absense of otherwise as proof your hypothesis is right.

Considering this is all based on a thread of fluff which isn't in the new codex I find it completely amusing.

Rich 123
26-12-2005, 09:23
Christ, its quite obvious this in an argument (call it debate if you want to sound nice) of us all voicing our own opinions of the Tau based around the fluff we have read - as the fluff is allt he same it is just our own opinion.

So shall we just say leave this and allow this thread to go back to being used for updates of the new Tau fluff.

That would make sense
Rich

Nazguire
26-12-2005, 09:29
The Tau are expansionistic and aggressive, and the only thing I think that stops players from realising this, is the proganda/symbolic message that their whole theme radiates.

The best example is the Nimbosa incident. The Black Templars WD Crusades article details that this was an Imperial Colony, attacked by the Tau at the request of the Ethereals. The Black Templars Crusade that arrived help rescue the planet, but underneath Shadowsun's command, the Tau are once again attacking in a renewed effort.

One things are wrong with the peaceful vision of the Tau Empire.

1. If the Tau are content with you denying entry to the Empire, why did they attack and ravage an already colonised Human/Imperial planet? And continue to?

Shinzui
26-12-2005, 09:51
Nazguire you could go back a page where I already explained about Nimbosa. The destruction of the population by Brightsword after they didn't surrender, this resulted in brightsword to be recalled back to T'au to get a stern telling off which eventually leads to the events in Kill team.

And remember the Tau are under no illusion that the Imperium is trying to wipe them out and they are at war. The Tau survival is dependent of their fight against the Imperium. It's made far more clear in the new codex imo.

my_name_is_tudor
26-12-2005, 14:45
I suppose the Starflyer is a C'Tan :)

Have you read judas unchained yet? I don't want to spoil anything :p

Greater good = political belief, more than just propoganda, as proven by fluff from the perspective of the tau themselves - not including firewarrior here because, as has been said, it's a complete and utter piece of rubbish that should be wiped from history.

'Join or die' is not, or is not generally, the tau's offer to species it meets. It mis more 'help or die/be at disadvantage'. Its all a matter of practicality, do you honestly think if the tau met a primitive race (say pre gunpowder) that didn't like their ideals, then they would wipe them off the face of their world? I doubt it, it's not practical. Also, bear in mind the demiurg, who help the greater good by trade, but are not part of the empire, where was 'join or die' then?

As Rich says, this is all conjecture based on what we think is the tau empire is like/what we want it to be like.

Personally I think it's silly to think a race with such mixed approaches to other life is either good or evil. A race that kills all without even taking a second look? Evil. A race that goes around giving people resources for free, letting them do whatever the hell they want, and being nice and smiley all the while? Sure, theyre good. The tau are a mix, and as such theres not much we can say about them. Even then it would be all down to context and intepretation still.

imrhati
26-12-2005, 15:44
are tau evil? well if you are a tau no, but if you are any other race they are.

are space marines evil? if you are human no, but if you are any other race yes.

get the idea???

my_name_is_tudor
26-12-2005, 15:51
are tau evil? well if you are a tau no, but if you are any other race they are.

are space marines evil? if you are human no, but if you are any other race yes.

get the idea???

eh? That's a bizarre idea. You are suggesting that "any other race" thinks the tau are evil. I'm sure the kroot thought they were very evil when they first met them, and the vespid, and the demiurg,..

Lanfiex
26-12-2005, 17:58
he means evil is defined by the beholder

Sephiroth
26-12-2005, 18:10
Nimbosa is a Imperial/Tau contested world that has been invaded and counter invaded numerous times. as of late the history is currently- Tau invade, Imperials invade with help of Ultramarine Chapter due to proximity of Greater Imperial space, then Tau invade with Brightsword and he wipes out imperial forces, this leads to another invasion on behalf of the Imperium but there is a new commander there (tau) who has dug himself in.

Herself in. I think its a safe bet to say the 'new supreme commander' mentioned in the Black Templars article on the Nimbosa Crusade is Commander Shadowsun. ;)

night2501
26-12-2005, 18:36
well tau are not evil, that is just clear, they do not seek destruction or kill for the joy of it, also the idea of erradicating all the live of a planet is something out of theyr minds...so they are not evil, you could say they are the least evil race in WH40K (not counting necrons tiranids and ork, as they just do not think or act in a preprogramed way so no good or evil for them).
and how do you call something that is the least evil in the universe, you define that as good, so yeas, tau are good, but that dosnīt mean they will not shot you in the head if they have too...
remember tau give chance to diplomacy, they ask for the enemy to retreat, after the battle they let the enemy get back the bodies (very nice of them), and tau empire is definitly a better place to live than the empire(human), I would chose to live in the tau empire rather than in the human one...
also the bakground suport that they are prety relaxed with theyr allies, they even know that kroot still fight as mercenaryes but they just play dump, they also apreciate live, not only theyr lives but the rest of the lives too (priority to theyr own lives is not evil is survival...), so yes I can not see wath part of all tha tis evil...
they might be expansionist, but not evil... (even a marines have recognized that tau are not evil, and I remember a piece of bakground telling how a SM comander or something like that, ignored an order about virus bombing a tau planet)

Drasanil
26-12-2005, 18:46
Slightly off topic, but on the subject of who is the least evil, I agree that Tau are a good example of only some what evil, especialy when compared to the imperium.

But the title of least evil IMHO should go to craftworld and exodite eldar, with the exception of Biel-Tan, they are just trying to survive and secure the future of their race, granted they seem fickle and incomprhensible from the imperium's point of view, but from ours they seem to be the least evil of them all. They, for the most part, have learned their lesson after the birth of Slaanesh and are only interested in surviving in a cold and unforgiving universe.

Lanfiex
26-12-2005, 21:01
eldar less evil? they kill a child if it ment the protection of the eldar race

Lanfiex
26-12-2005, 21:07
I'm sure the kroot thought they were very evil when they first met them

the thing the kroot first thought when they met the tau was this

orks damd orks... oh look a red and grey ship .. . and a fleet of red and gery ships... oh no where going to crash into the red and grey ship ... the orks destoryed the red and grey ship... the red and gery fleet destoryed orks ship ... better land now..

not realy sure what happened in the kroots mind but read this story to see where i got this from http://uk.games-workshop.com/tau/background/1/

my_name_is_tudor
26-12-2005, 21:31
indeed, i was being sarcastic.

Zustiur
27-12-2005, 00:01
eldar less evil? they kill a child if it ment the protection of the eldar race
Whereas the imperium will kill any person just because he dares to think for himself rather than following imperial doctrines.

We don't want no free thinking engineers in this empire. Follow the STCs or die.

Zustiur.

night2501
27-12-2005, 02:24
well the big diference with eldar is that they seek for the theyr own good alone, while tau include the others...but agree you could say eldar exodites are on par with tau on the least evil on the WH40K universe

Randallw
27-12-2005, 02:26
Have you read judas unchained yet? I don't want to spoil anything :p .

I'm on pg 664. I know what the Starflyer is, unless there's a big twist in the next 300 pages. The first book actually tells you what it is if you pay attention.

Grotsnik
27-12-2005, 02:55
well the big diference with eldar is that they seek for the theyr own good alone, while tau include the others...but agree you could say eldar exodites are on par with tau on the least evil on the WH40K universe
You can indeed say anything you want and beleive it to be true. :rolleyes: Doesn't make it so though.

However "less evil" any of the races in 40K are, they are all basicly interested in expansion/survival. AT ANY COST to those that stand in the way of that goal.
I see very little difference in acquiring a planet by going in & killing everyone there, or demanding the inhabitants hand it over (& live in survitude) or die.

POV is what matters. :evilgrin:

Clang
27-12-2005, 06:19
wow, such deep and profound philisophical and political analysis - who says we're just a sad bunch of geeks who play with toy soldiers!

Seriously though, back to the original point of the topic, I for one think it perfectly fluffy to have Tau hire mercenary races to do some of their fighting, but exactly who those races actually are is not the point. In gaming terms, we just need some stats for these mercenary races - sure, some models would be nice too, but as some of the examples posted here and on other sites show, we can always convert something. I for example would quite like to play vespids, but don't actually like the models - fine, I'll convert some other models (humans, orks, skaven, ogres, whatever) to visually match the vespid stats, and they'll 'count as' vespids.

What GW could do to help us would be to put out a CA article on generic 'Tau mercenaries', giving a variety of stats options (e.g. increase BS to 4 at a cost of 2 points per model etc etc) and let us have fun converting.

Mannheim
27-12-2005, 07:22
If they did actually allow players to customize their own Tau 'slave' races it would be neat. However, they'd have to lay down some rather strict guidelines for customization... On second thought, they should just make a new 'slave' race once a year and release the rules for it. They should kinda be like the new doctrines released for IG...just simple permutations that don't go beyond what the Tau are supposed to do. Mark my words: you let the 'players' decide how they work and pretty soon there will be rules for Tau demon-summoned biker lizards with BS, WS and Str 6, all with Assault 4 rending guns at 2 points each.

TheSonOfAbbadon
27-12-2005, 07:57
Of course they're going to be 2 points each, well, if you want the Giant rock-eating living lava monster that counts as a fast walker vehicle with strength ten and assault seven rending/5"blast guns to be 12 points...

my_name_is_tudor
27-12-2005, 11:58
I'm on pg 664. I know what the Starflyer is, unless there's a big twist in the next 300 pages. The first book actually tells you what it is if you pay attention.

yeah, the second book is more confirmation than revelation. Bloody good books, I think you'll agree.