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View Full Version : Brett's better then Lizardmen?



Nicha11
11-05-2009, 06:18
There is going to be a local tournament, and the organisers have ranked all the armies.
So that you can get extra points for doing well with weaker armies.

However they have apparentley ranked Bretts far above Lizardmen.

I don't want to b***h and whine about it.

I just want to see any arguments for and against Brett's being better then Lizardmen.

EdFireborn
11-05-2009, 06:21
strange people.... having seen the new Lizardmen army book in action, i can comfterbly say... Lizardmen are powerful, or moreso, have large numbers of overpowered builds...

Alathir
11-05-2009, 08:53
I can say with confidence that a Bretonnian army fighting a Lizardmen army is an uphill battle for the Brets. High Armour saves, high toughness, high leadership with cold blooded.... makes them a nightmare to break.

Ultimate Life Form
11-05-2009, 08:56
Not to mention the Engine of the Gods should be able to blast half their army into oblivion.:o

dsw1
11-05-2009, 09:51
I'd say it would be the other way around and it would be an up hill battle for the lizards. Sure you can get some nastyish lists with the lizards, but the brets can also pump out some very nasty lists also. I wouldn't say that the lizard men are overly powerful though, I'd say they are fairly balanced (I mean lets face it, they aren't DE or Vamps ;)).

I've seen quite a few games between lizzies and brets at my local store (none which I have partaken), and out of the games the lizards have won 1 or 2 and the brets the rest (roughly 10 games). EotG aren't that scary once you know how to deal with them, and neither are stegadons, after they are out of the way, the brets will dominate most of the battle (picking and choosing who and where to strike).

Dark_Knight
11-05-2009, 10:12
Each game is based on the knowledge of the players, tactical decisions during the battle, the army list (and if it is appropriate for fighting the opposing army), and random dice rolls. So I say that both armies are sick to fight against. Maybe we should just starting saying so and so's Dark Elves are way too hard to beat for so and so's Daemons of Chaos as the general will often make the army succeed or fail ultimately.

Ultimate Life Form
11-05-2009, 10:14
Maybe we should just starting saying so and so's Dark Elves are way too hard to beat for so and so's Daemons of Chaos as the general will often make the army succeed or fail ultimately.

In my case, I usually ensure that Lizardmen are utterly massacred, even by Tomb Kings and Orcs.:(

Dark_Knight
11-05-2009, 10:23
In my case, I usually ensure that Lizardmen are utterly massacred, even by Tomb Kings and Orcs.:(

Good on ya!

Gazak Blacktoof
11-05-2009, 11:08
Victory against brets is all about stalling, redirection, a bit of armour cracking and killing pegasus knights (they're so annoying they warrant consideration as a separate entity). If you have an army capable of achieving those things you can't beat brets.

As Alathir said, lizards are great at standing their ground and they've got a fair bit of firepower, spells and high strength attacks to weaken and outright destroy lance formations. Brets can also struggle against the truly unbreakable armies (undead and daemons) and whilst lizards might struggle with fear in some instances they have ways to mitigate a fear-auto-break that could otherwise circumvent their cold blooded rule.

Lizards seem like they have the edge to me but I've only played against brets extensively.

maze ironheart
11-05-2009, 11:20
Not to mention the Engine of the Gods should be able to blast half their army into oblivion.:o

Yeah melted knights of the realm.

Eulogy2
11-05-2009, 11:30
i would think bretts are one of the few armies that can easily handle a EOTG. a solid charging lance formation will be hitting on 3's and wounding it on 4's, and the skink priest on top is a sitting duck for str 6 hits. now that being said the LM player that lets it happen is an idiot, but hey things don't always go as planned.

overall i think they match up well. its a hard hitting army VS an army that can block with its eye and still stare you down.

maze ironheart
11-05-2009, 11:41
i would think bretts are one of the few armies that can easily handle a EOTG. a solid charging lance formation will be hitting on 3's and wounding it on 4's, and the skink priest on top is a sitting duck for str 6 hits. now that being said the LM player that lets it happen is an idiot, but hey things don't always go as planned.

overall i think they match up well. its a hard hitting army VS an army that can block with its eye and still stare you down.

Unless they have the glyph neckless on him like I do that's saved my skink priest more times then James bond saves the world.

selone
11-05-2009, 11:50
There's more than one tournament that has given lizardmen an arguably low power ranking.

For the record I belive lizardmen to be a much more versatile and well rounded army, much more options. Whilst you can argue who would beat who and by how much Brett's have some tough matchups vs the armies you might face at a tourny. So no I dont think lizardmen should be ranked lower.

PARTYCHICORITA
11-05-2009, 11:54
Actually the only models with S6 charges on the bret book are the Grail Knights, errants with errantry banner and characters.

As for who is better than who; brets are hard to play against because on the paper they are quiet different from most armies with a bunch or reliable heavy cavalry and the only flying heavy cavalry in the game. However they have a bunch of problems vs armies with fast units or skirmishers which is something lizards have in plenty. They also suffer vs magic, monsters, R4 infantry and panic; all things LM can do.

On the overall however is not an issue of who beats who as much of "who does better vs the other armies" and on that subject the LM are way better.

Tetris Hermit
11-05-2009, 16:43
Lore of Metal and EOTG work wonders on those stupid knights.

Ultimate Life Form
11-05-2009, 16:51
Lore of Metal and EOTG work wonders on those stupid knights.

Hmmmm.... I see! That is when the Slann with his trusty Bane Head comes in!:p

IŽd love to do it at least once, but since no one plays heavily armored armies (except for my own Lizardmen)...:(

Lord Anathir
11-05-2009, 16:54
people don't know it yet but lizards are on par with VC and DE.

dsw1
11-05-2009, 17:05
people don't know it yet but lizards are on par with VC and DE.

Don't be ridiculous. I find it offensive we are being classed in with such :cheese:. Lizardmen are quite balanced compared to most armies out there, sure they have things like the EOTG but that is easy to take down if you know how (most armies could theoretically do it on turn 1).

The main strength that the lizards have are powerful characters, but that is also their weakness. These characters cost bundles and when added together take up most of the entirety of the army, most other things in the list aren't that scary to be perfectly fair.

*disclaimer* these are my opinions, people may disagree.

TheDarkDuke
11-05-2009, 17:10
Bretts being better then lizardmen? Maybe in last edition but id say they are fairly even agaisnt each other right now and neither should have any advantage with extra points or anything. unless they spam engine of gods which i truthfully have never faced and will never use so i can't honestly say if that aspect is overpowered or not.

selone
11-05-2009, 21:54
Don't be ridiculous. I find it offensive we are being classed in with such :cheese:. Lizardmen are quite balanced compared to most armies out there, sure they have things like the EOTG but that is easy to take down if you know how (most armies could theoretically do it on turn 1).

The main strength that the lizards have are powerful characters, but that is also their weakness. These characters cost bundles and when added together take up most of the entirety of the army, most other things in the list aren't that scary to be perfectly fair.

*disclaimer* these are my opinions, people may disagree.

I think lizardmen certainly have the tools to stand toe to toe with them, whether they're at their power level is for more experienced gamers than me to say :)

Ender101
12-05-2009, 00:49
Having seen the new Lizzies in action several times, against a variety of opponents, I've formed a comfortable opinion of Lizard Men and their t 5 hero choice (grumble T_T).

The Brets have the advantage in speed, momentum and initial hitting power. The knights are survivable with their armor and ward saves, but they lack stamina. Cold blooded with tough, well armored and skilled warriors, the Lizard Men will likely just sit there and then dish it out to the silly humans with their multiple, above average strength attacks.

Like with fighting Vampire Counts (to be honest I think the style of anti-Lizard and anti-Vampire are similar all around for the brets) charging multiple knight units into the infantry formations will help. Causing as many casualties as possible and trying to get high combat res will make it difficult to stand even with cold blooded.

In my experience the 'power level' of the army isn't terribly important as long as you know your opponent's weakness, and more importantly, your own. I recently saw two games where Empire killed the Vamps over the course of four turns and only lost one small unit of hand gunners, and the other less than a fourth of his army. The Empire player utilized his strengths and played on the weakness of his opponent.

So, the Bretonnians lack the raw power of the new Lizard book, and the Lizards lack the mobility and momentum of the Bretonnians. But I would think the sheer versatility of the Lizard Men would rank them higher than the one trick ponies (I couldn't help myself).