View Full Version : What if anything does the Dwarf faction need added?

moar barmu
12-05-2009, 01:48
I think Dwarves are fine without any cavalry of their own, but it would be nice if they had at least one spellcaster (like a Runekeeper or something similar to that) of their own. I see no reason why a rune magic wielding Dwarf epic hero would be so out of character for this game, so it would really be nice and shore up one area the Dwarves need shoring up. Anything else the Dwarves need added to their list?

12-05-2009, 08:59
I dont think rune magic wielding epic dwarfs exist in Tolkiens legendarium, thats probably the reason you wont see one added to the list.

12-05-2009, 09:27
Humm, this is not Warhammer Fantasy... so no rune magic for the Dwarves.

I don't think that the Dwarves wielded allot of magic in Middle Earth. The most magical of their abilities would lie in their master craftsmen and their blacksmiths. Since their skill were so great it could be perceived as magical. Such as weapons and armor made of Mithril.

Nu Fenix
12-05-2009, 11:34
I think Dwarves have a pretty good list.

If they want to use a spellcaster, each of the wizards from the Council would have visited them at one time or another, so you could add Gandalf [Grey only IMO], Saruman or Radagast, and I personally would have no problem with it.

The only thing they may want is a unit with Mithril armour, similar to Wardens of the Keys, although Durin's Guard are only one Defence lower and can get +1-2 to hit, depending on what they're fighting against.

Like any army, if they would need help in a certain way, they would call on their allies.

moar barmu
12-05-2009, 21:56
What about anti-magic magic or anti-magic special ruels or epic heroes. You know to balance out not having magic.

Nu Fenix
12-05-2009, 23:47
Why would they have things like that?

GW Dwarves are entirely different from LOTR Dwarves. Sure they may be beardy and live undergound, but the whole anti-magic thing just doesn't exist.

You want anti-magic, then either buy the Counterspell Fortune [limiting and unimaginative], use the Might you have available [due to Shieldbearers you have access to 3 Might in a non Legendary/Epic formation], or just take the spells and bash their heads in whilst killing the spellcaster in a duel.

Gondor and Rohan are in the same situation, arguably worse since they are limited to 2 Might from normal Command upgrades, so can prevent even less spells.

So why should Dwarves get special treatment?

13-05-2009, 04:30
IIRC, Gondor and Rohan have no spellcasters either.

Forgotten Kingdoms & Elves are the only good lists with magic.

13-05-2009, 09:03
Since you can have allies in any list you can add Gandalf or Radagast or any Elf Hero if you wish. That way you get access to magic and it can even keep with your theme if you do this carefully.

14-05-2009, 08:36
Yeah...Tolkien dwarves =/= WHFB dwarves. They don't get guns, anti-magic, or special runes. But they are pretty hard to corrupt! :-)

14-05-2009, 13:33
I agree the dwarves do not need anything added. I also agree with the anti-magic commentary and not making them like WFB dwarves; if you aren't going to be true to Tolkien's background and want to play Warhammer Fantasy... there is a game for that!

Given that you can easily take 25% allies, unless you want something that cannot be found in any of the good lists, I don't see a problem.

You can get magic (take wizards or elves). You can get cavalry (take Rohan or Gondor). You can get monsters beyond the King's Champion (take Ents).

What are you missing, exactly?

14-05-2009, 14:51
Theres not much that can be added. Adding cavalry would be like Goblins having cavalry. *Slaps forhead as i rememeber "The battle of 5 armys"* Dwarves are like tanks and don't need movemablitiy. It's like having a Necron Monalith with NOS(Nitrousoxide). It won't work. As for magic other than having something liek Aura of command they wopuldn't really need anything.

The Marshel
26-05-2009, 12:09
your not really a lotr fan are you, you just play the game which is fair enough, but a bit of research would solve this before it even begins.

the only things that should have magic in any lotr games are:
the 5 wizards
the ringwraiths
amd to a LIMITED extent, the elves

and for a middle earth bassed game, add all of the varrious god's to walk middle earth, and change the limited for the elves to, uncommon sounds about right.

everything else should nt have true magic. orc, goblin and uruk hai shamans can be justified in sbg, where the basic limit of their abilities is to hype up their warriors. this doesn;t mean actual magic, just the orcish belief that their erm, spiritual (for lack of a better word) leaders are magical. in reality they're just shouting a bit, causing a frenzy. if you've ever played rome total war, think druids for barbarians.

to an extent, this can justify easterling and haradriam shamans, but the magic wielding characters in tolkin's writtings are the god like beings from valinor and elves, the choosen race of the gods (though its not like every elf was casting spells like it was an elvish harry potter) the exceptions are due to the rings. I;m talking chiefly about the ringwraiths, who are powerful spell casters thanks to the rings they were given. the same can be said to an extent for galadriel. who's massive power is thanks to her ring (in both book and movie, she specifically says that when frodo destroyes the ring, she will lose most her power and lothlorian would fade)

so, dwarves with magic, not likely mate. though it is more likely then anything to do with runes imo. that would be far to whfb.

27-05-2009, 01:46
i think there is too much magic in WotR as is!
there should be no shaman, stormcaller, warpriests or such

only the 5 wizards, sauron, the 9 ringwraiths, mouth of sauron, and a few named noldor elves should be able to do any spell casting
and maybe the balrog :)

07-06-2009, 15:53
I agree, there is too much magic in WotR. However, from a game making point of view, if magic is going to be included, it has to have a large pool to draw from. Otherwise the magic interactions of each game are going to be way too predictable, and mundane. If every army only had 2-3 models with magic to choose from, you either end up with the same magic as everyone else, or no magic at all.

Lore wise, I think GW decided to lean more towards the lore of Lord of the Rings Online, and take the creative liberties that Turbine did. Shamans and Stormcallers really seem to embody that kind of lore world. Also in recent LotR video game spin offs, there have always been lesser-caster creatures in both Good and Evil armies. I think GW realised to make a balanced and diverse game, that included magic, they needed to conform to the "new" LotR lore that's being adapted from the original Tolkien Lore.

That being said, I too can see how a caster-dwarf unit could exist. Dwarves in the Lord of the Rings online game can play as Runekeepers for both Restorative and Destructive magics.

However, I'd like to mention, I'm not a big supporter of changing the original lore. I'd be happy with very limited magic in WotR. I do feel at sometimes magic plays too big of a role in my games, due to the higher number of sources of magic available to both armies. But I do understand that GW, Turbine, and EA are game makers, who err on the side of great-game first, and true-to-lore fandom second.

I enjoy the results of their decisions. The games have all been fun.

07-06-2009, 18:46
Floi can do his tricks to help out by removing special rules, thats somewhat a magic ability, just not in the same way as other spellcasters o;

08-06-2009, 06:32
There is one thing that could be atted and probbaly will be when the Hobbit comes out. More dwarf heroes. I know Dwarves all readsy have "*in my personla opion* too many heros to choice from but it's always better to have that choice. I would love to see a younger Balin out there tho. :D