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Quannum
14-05-2009, 12:49
Hi all,

I have started this thread to compile and collate all the questions that we need answering. If you have any, submit them here, and I'll update the OP accordingly. Hopefully, the appropriate people at GW Games Development will take it into account for an eventual FAQ. Here goes, in no particular order:


**PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS. LET THE DEVELOPERS DO THAT**


1) Is there a limit as to how many Heroic/Epic Actions can be called by a single Hero each turn? Is there a limit as to how many Heroic/Epic Actions may be called by a single Hero each phase?

2) How do you correctly calculate the cost of Legendary Formations? Does the first points value also include the first company of eight models? E.g. If I was buying one company of Osgiliath Veterans, do I pay 120pts or 155pts?

3) At what point of the Heroic/Epic Actions 'queue' do you resolve the 'free' Heroic Duel that ensues after an Epic Challenge is successful.

4) Does an Epic Hero count, for all intents and purposes, as 'his formation' when 'his formation is due to act' (p.69)? I.e. can an Epic Hero call an Epic Strike just before resolving his own Heroic Duel, and thereby achieve Fight 10 for the Duel?

5) If, for example, Gimli (with Orcbane) joins a formation of three companies of Dwarf Warriors, does his company receive +1 to hit against Orcs? Given the text box at the bottom right of p.69, what is the point of a Hero having a special rule such as Bane or Spirit Grasp if he cannot confer it to a unit, and cannot fight alone?

6) If, for example, Aragorn's company needs a 6/4 to wound an opponent, does his Narsil bonus modify that to a 4/2, or modify it two steps down on the 'To Hit' chart to a 6?

7) Are there any limitations as to what type of unit an Epic Hero can join? For example, can an Epic Hero join an artillery company, or a Mumak?

8) Does Heroic Fight resolve completely in the queue before you move to the next action? This could result in a combat being resolved before a Heroic Duel between heroes in the same formations and thus the Heroic Duel will never happen.

9) For effects that state "...target a friendly model/formation/company/etc...", does the model initiating the effect count. i.e. can Gandalf Epic Renewal himself? Likewise, for effects that state "...affects all formations within x"...", is the company/formation the effect coming from also affected. i.e. will the spell Tremor also affect the formation the spellcaster is in?

10) Does Defensible Terrain also count as Difficult Terrain for all intents and purposes?

11) Why does an Artillery company suffer a -1 To Hit modifier, when shooting at a larger target such as a Mumak or a Dragon, or even a Troll? What are the chances of implementing a "Large Target"-esque rules that nullifies this modifier if a model is over a certain size?

12) Does Glorfindel, Lord of the West receive the "Charging" bonus or the "Cavalry Charge" bonus in the Fight Phase, seeing as he moves and charges like a Flying Monster?

13) If you shoot at a formation that are located in Defensible terrain and kill of one whole company, will that formation be forced back D3 inch by shooting as normal? If so... how is this resolved?

14) At what point can you activate non heroic/epic abilities that require might? E.g. can mighty blow be activated just before attacks are made? Can it be activated after you've rolled the dice to see how effective it can be, do you need to queue it up with the heroic actions of the turn?

15) Can you upgrade a formation to have more than one captain/special command model/musician (would the effect be cumulative)?

16) Are Gollum and Grima able to move from the formations they start the game in, and, if so, are they restricted to moving to friendly formations, or may they go to other enemy formations?

17) How do you resolve Light of the Valar against non-Spirit formations that contain Spirit Heroes?


APPARENT RAW INCONSISTENCIES THAT NEED ADDRESSING:

1) Units that fail a Terror check when charging a Terror causing enemy currently only become Fight 0 until the end of the Charge Phase.

2) 'To Hit' modifiers are divided into "+X To Dice Result" or "+X To Hit". Is there a difference between the two, and if not, why the differing definitions?

Q

fracas
14-05-2009, 13:40
7. can an epic hero join an artillery company?

8. can an epic hero join a mumak?

9. why are there special epic hero special rules like wargbane when they do not transfer to the company?

Jorgen_CAB
14-05-2009, 14:15
Question...

Does Heroic Fight resolve completely in the queue before you move to the next action?
This could result in a combat being resolved before a Heroic Duel between heroes in the same formations and thus the Heroic Duel will never happen.

Quannum
14-05-2009, 14:50
@fracas: 7 and 8 are good, i'll combine 9 in with 5.

@Jorgen_CAB: good one.

Q

ismar
14-05-2009, 16:40
A couple questions I've seen asked, but not sure if answers were given for are.

1. For effects that state "...target a friendly model/formation/company/etc...", does the model initiating the effect count. i.e. can Gandlaf Epic Renewal himself?

2. For effects that state "...affects all formations within x"...", is the company/formation the effect coming from also affected. i.e. will the spell Tremor also affect the formation the spellcaster is in?

I tried searching for these specific questions, so if they have already been answered sorry.

Thanks,

Erethor
14-05-2009, 20:44
Some of these questions are actually already answered if you read the rules correctly...

At least, numbers 2, 6, and 8 are obvious already.

Quannum
14-05-2009, 22:16
Some of these questions are actually already answered if you read the rules correctly...

At least, numbers 2, 6, and 8 are obvious already.

I couldn't disagree more. The very reason these are being asked is because multiple interpretations of the rules are coming up. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts and opinions on the answers to these questions but if they're included in the OP, it's because at some point, there has been dispute.

Q

Erethor
14-05-2009, 22:48
I couldn't disagree more. The very reason these are being asked is because multiple interpretations of the rules are coming up. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts and opinions on the answers to these questions but if they're included in the OP, it's because at some point, there has been dispute.

Q

And the only reason there are multiple interpretations is because people aren't reading the rules clearly. Per your request, I'm not going to post the answers to these questions myself, but the fact remains that questions 2, 6, and 8 shouldn't be a point of contention at all since the rules pertaining to them are quite clear, and have already been answered by GW. If these questions were not FAQ'd by the development team, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

Quannum
15-05-2009, 10:10
Again, you make the mistake of applying your own opinion here. It may be clear to you, but to others it may not be and that's why they're listed. End of.

Just added some more head-scratchers to the list.

Q

xxRavenxx
18-05-2009, 08:47
At what point can you activate non heroic/epic abilities that require might?

Eg. Can mighty blow be activated just before attacks are made? Can it be activated after you've rolled the dice to see how effective it can be, do you need to queue it up with the heroic actions of the turn?

Jorgen_CAB
18-05-2009, 12:52
Q: If you shoot at a formation that are located in Defensible terrain and kill of one whole company. Will that formation be forced back D3 inch by shooting as normal, if so... how is this resolved?

Some people seem to think that the rules surrounding this are unclear.

fracas
18-05-2009, 17:37
Q: Can you upgrade a formation to have more than one captain? special command model (spell caster or dragon knight)? or musician (would the effect be cumulative)?

Quannum
21-05-2009, 01:04
I wonder, would the mods/admins be able to sticky this thread until GW brings out an official FAQ?

I'm looking forward to comparing our desired FAQ with the issues resolved in theirs.

Q

Edonil
21-05-2009, 01:16
Q: Are Gollum and Grima able to move from the formations they start the game in, and, if so, are they restricted to moving to friendly formations, or may they go to other enemy formations?

RAW, it seems pretty clear that they don't have explicit permission, but since it's come up enough times even here, it's worth an FAQ.

Quannum
21-05-2009, 09:38
good one. I'll put it in the OP.

symbiont
23-05-2009, 23:20
Q:Can Spirits in non Spirit formations be targeted by Light of the Valar?

Everyone in my local gaming group says yes but it seems pretty stupid to me if it's true.

Q:If a player calls Epic tranquility and another player calls a heroic duel,do you have to roll off to see which goes first?

My gaming group says no,they say that Epic tranquility goes first but they're both called at the same time so I'd think you have to roll off.

Also,I had another question:

The other day I was playing a game against a local opponent.I declared a heroic charge with Vrasku's Talons but realized after declaring it that it was impossible because I had shot.My opponent said that I lose my might point even though the heroic charge never happened because it was impossible to call.

Anyone have answers to my questions? I can't post a thread so I put my questions here.Sorry and thanks in advance for the replies.

Quannum
23-05-2009, 23:50
Symbiont, that last bit about losing the Might point is really down to the discretion of your and your opponent. There is no specific rule for this as it was based off of a mistake. I'd say it should be your opponent's choice whether you get the Might point back or not, but I'd hope that your opponent wasn't a complete hard-a$$.

Q

Quannum
02-06-2009, 09:51
Added new section to the OP. RAW Inconsistencies.

Q

xxRavenxx
03-06-2009, 08:04
A question about the two different versions of mighty blow (despite same name) wouldnt go amiss.

Also a question as to if mighty blow can bypass "xxxxx to kill tables" (as raw, it seems it can, as rai, it clearly shouldnt)

Nedorus
03-06-2009, 20:33
thanks Raven I just wanted to propose those two questions as well.

Nedorus

Captain_Molo
14-06-2009, 02:56
Sorry if someone already said this. I think the answer to question 6 regarding Aragorns Narsil bonus as an example is covered on page 65 of the rule book where it says "Note that when rolling to hit two rolls are sometimes required to inflict a hit (eg, 6/4). In this case the might bonus is added to both rolls-"
Now I know this section is talking about a bonus to hit caused by a might point but it seems logical it would work the same way for weapons like Narsil. So if the company originally needed 6/4 the +2 would apply to both rolls thus that company would need 4/2.

Captain_Molo
14-06-2009, 03:00
Q. Gandalfs spell Blinding Light states that all "companies" in the target formation are reduced to fight 0, are epic heroes in the unit affected by this? This one seemed a little more unclear than the terror rules.

End Times
18-06-2009, 17:44
Khamul the Easterling: If his ability, Essence Leech, which can be used against any formation withing 12 inches is used to apply the wounds that were saved against his own formation (on a roll 5+) against an enemy formation that he is currently in combat against, will the enemy's casualties count toward determining the Victor in a fight phase?

Example: Khamul's formation of Moranon Orcs causes 4 hits against an enemy formation of Minas Tirith Warriors. The forces of good cause 5 in return, 1 of which is prevented by the player controlling Khamul by rolling a 5 (so each formation has suffered 4 casualties each at this point). Khamul's player then decides to put his saved hit onto the Minas Tirith Warriors that he is fighting against, thereby causing a casualty. Has Kahmul won this combat by 1 casualty? Or is the result a draw because his ability can't be counted when determining the victor of a combat?

xxRavenxx
18-06-2009, 23:15
Q. Does spiritwalk grant the ability to charge through friendly units, since charging involves moving.

Edonil
19-06-2009, 02:57
Q. Does spiritwalk grant the ability to charge through friendly units, since charging involves moving.

I would say that that's difficult to really argue in favor of, cause of LOS requirements, but still a good question

Kalandros
22-06-2009, 15:22
A followup on Khamul's Essence Leech,
Does it work against hits he receives in an Heroic Duel?

mike bays
22-06-2009, 17:13
A followup on Khamul's Essence Leech,
Does it work against hits he receives in an Heroic Duel?

Good question, if it does where do the hits bounce to formation or hero? I would think the formation.

Emissary
22-06-2009, 18:24
As for the hits bouncing, Khamul's rules specifically state that you choose a formation within 12" to take the hits, so I don't think a case could be made that a specific hero takes the bounced hits unless it's a monstrous hero.

As for the heroic duel, why wouldn't it? If something affects the whole formation, it affects every piece of the formation. If it didn't, then why would sunder spirit affect a hero's courage in a formation as well as the formation's base courage?

crouchingotter
07-08-2009, 12:49
1. Can troops armed with Crossbows move and then shoot if a Heroic Shoot is called?
2. If, for example, a unit of Uruk Hai Warriors is in combat with a unit of Riders of Rohan, and the Uruks manage to kill the last remaining two Riders but suffer 3 casualties of their own. Do the Uruks still take a panic test to see if they become disordered even though they have wiped out the opposing force?

Nu Fenix
08-08-2009, 01:07
In regards to #2, I can't see why they would roll on the Panic chart, as they didn't lose combat - The enemy is dead, even though they took more casualties, meaning they won.

crouchingotter
08-08-2009, 15:32
In regards to #2, I can't see why they would roll on the Panic chart, as they didn't lose combat - The enemy is dead, even though they took more casualties, meaning they won.

Yeah but acorrding to the RAW the "winner" is the side that cause most casualties.

So technically if you kill everyone but lose more than you killed in the process...the rules suggest that you should take a panic test because you didn't "win".

Ex-Blueshirt
08-08-2009, 15:54
Think of it as even though the uruks wiped them out, they still lost enough of their number for panic to set in.

I actually like this rule it means that, even when depleted, formations can still cause enough damage to force panic checks.

crouchingotter
08-08-2009, 16:06
Think of it as even though the uruks wiped them out, they still lost enough of their number for panic to set in.

I actually like this rule it means that, even when depleted, formations can still cause enough damage to force panic checks.

Really?

You've just killed the last of your enemy and now you panic? I don't think so. A sigh of relief perhaps....

I think it's a question that should be put forward. In no other game of GWs that I know of does such a similar rule exist. Is this rule to be followed as written or did the developers accidentally miss out what happens when you completely destroy the opposing side even though to you cause less casualties?

Ex-Blueshirt
08-08-2009, 16:51
You may hav just killed the enemy, but being covered in your in your mates blood won't do much for morale.

And really it doesn't matter if any other GW game has the same rule does it. I agree a clarification on this is needed. But, like I said, I like the way the rule plays at the moment.

crouchingotter
08-08-2009, 19:57
You may hav just killed the enemy, but being covered in your in your mates blood won't do much for morale.

And really it doesn't matter if any other GW game has the same rule does it. I agree a clarification on this is needed. But, like I said, I like the way the rule plays at the moment.

Do Uruk Hai have "mates" ? :D

I think they're likely to dip their fingers in the remains of their fallen comrades and declare:

"Looks like meat is back on the menu boys!"

:D

Shonailo
08-08-2009, 20:42
It's called a Loser Test, and if you wiped out the enemy, how are you the loser?

Ex-Blueshirt
08-08-2009, 22:19
Because the enemy killed more of you than you did of them.

It makes smaller formations a threat as, even if they get wiped out, they can still make a formation disordered or panic.

I honestly don't think it's an oversight, I belive it's meant to work that way, and actually adds to the game. But hey that's just me.

smaul
11-08-2009, 20:59
Id have to check but I thought somewhere in the book it says you cant win a combat if you are destroyed, hopefully Ill remember to check tonight at home.

Spiney Norman
11-08-2009, 21:41
Q. Do the Royal Standard of Rohan and Halbarad's Banner of the King automatically count as Army Banners as implied by the paragraph on p.60?

If not, do they at least count as normal banners which could potentially be upgraded to Army Banners with the relevant fate/fortune?

If not, does this mean that the King's Guard cannot under any circumstances enjoy the effect of a Banner (thus making it one of the crappiest cavalry units in the game)?

Chris_Tzeentch
12-08-2009, 11:57
Why are Angmar Orcs more expensive than Mordor Orcs but to all intents and purposes exactly the same? Is this a typo?

Jobu
12-08-2009, 13:56
Why are Angmar Orcs more expensive than Mordor Orcs but to all intents and purposes exactly the same? Is this a typo?

I don't have the rulebook in front of me but I think angmar orcs are f4 and not f3. But I could be wrong and thinking of something else.

Ex-Blueshirt
12-08-2009, 15:52
You must be thinking of something else. The banner and drummer are more expensive, not the orcs themselves. It's most likely a typo.

In the meantime just use allies orcs.

Jobu
13-08-2009, 01:19
yep, it is the shaman that are different, spells of darkness for mordor and dismay for angmar. But I did not see a different points cost for regular mordor orcs v angmar, only for the command group and that is most likely a typo.

Jake_Fin
26-08-2009, 01:38
1. If Disordered can you use spells
2. Does the formation simply stop if pushbacked from the table (the D3'' from shooting or the wilderness spell Heavy Winds)
3. When you win a duel against someone, and u get like 8 dice, the enemy has 2 resilience, you roll 5 times 4-5 with the dice ( hits to enemy hero), does it mean that you just "overkill" the hero OR does the rest of the hits go to the enemys company?

I seriously HATE the rulebook...
some rules arent like normally ( you know, u get the little "lore" part of the rule and then what it does... no no, here u have to read the lore, after it, before it and then turn 10 pages and find the thing u were looking for...)