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View Full Version : First try at WotR Gondor: 2000 pts



Banimal
14-05-2009, 21:56
Hi all,

So I've been playing SBG for a while now, and I've had relatively good success with my forces of Gondor, so I wanted to expand them into a WotR army. This is my first try at a WotR list, so if any more experienced Gondor players could tell me what works/doesn't work it'd be great

Faramir

Prince Imrahil

Eomer

1x6 Companies Minas Tirith Warriors: Captain

1x4 Companies Minas Tirith Warriors: Captain

1x3 Companies Minas Tirith Archers

1x3 Companies Foot Knights of Dol Amroth: Banner Bearer, Knight Champion

1x4 Companies Knights of Dol Amroth(Imrahil)

1x2 Companies Avenger Bolt Throwers

1x3 Companies Rangers of Ithilien

1x4 Companies Osgiliath Veterans(Faramir)

1x6 Companies Riders of Rohan Éored(Eomer)

Fortune: Orcbane Weapons(Veterans)

Avatar of the Eldar
14-05-2009, 22:40
Generally very solid.

Osgiliath Veteran formation is WAY too small. I'd suggest making it your anvil with Faramir in it. Get it to at least 4 companies, if not 6.

To do that, you might drop one company from the Ithilien Rangers, and one from the Archers, which would be merged into one, 3-company formation.

If you're only proxying the Foot Knights of DA (don't know if you really have that many of the models) you might consider dropping those to make other units stronger. e.g. Make the Eored Erkenbrand's. Immune to Terror could prove more useful than Eomer's extra point of Might. Also get those other WoMT units up a company or two each and leave the Ithilien Rangers at 4 companies.

Bottom line, if you make only one change - either dump the Osgiliath Veterans to pump up the other infantry (depending on your models available) OR drop the Foot Knights to make the Veterans a serious formation.

Nu Fenix or Jorgen should be along to weigh in soon, I expect.

Nu Fenix
15-05-2009, 00:30
Ask and ye shall receive Avatar ;) Granted, Jorgen is much better with Gondor than I am, but when has that ever stopped me.

My first immediate thought on the army is the last thing you bought - Counterspell. My problem with it is that it is good, but makes it far to easy to overlook some of the other Fortunes which are very good also. Have a look at the tactica in my sig, to give you some ideas about what the rest of them may be like.

I concur with Avatar in that you do need a six strong formation to act as the focus point for the enemy, and to ensure that they can survive anything thrown against them and still have plenty of attacks back. The main comparison for the Veterans are Minas Tirith Archers, as they come with bows, yet the added benefits for an extra five points per company is astounding. On turns when you know you will be charged first, being able to shoot at the enemy, only to be able to survive in combat is fantastic. If the cost of models is an issue, using Warriors of Minas Tirith converted or just stuck at the back for filler will be fine with most people.

Drop the banners on Warriors of Minas Tirith - The effect isn't that great, if you really need to pull off a charge then you can modify the charge roll with Might, same for the Panic chart. The points saved can be used to bulk up the formations further, as one anvil is good, but having more won't do any harm to you, but plenty to the enemy.

With the Knights of Dol Amroth having a banner, it means that if an Epic Hero joins them [such as Prince Imrahil], they cannot be in the command company, since there must be another normal model. As such, they would end up in the second company, which increases the risk of them being killed off through attrition to the formation. Either drop the banner to make sure the Epic can be in the command company, or add a Captain whilst keeping the banner.

I like the Foot Knights personally, as they add a bit of spice and colour to the army, with stats on par with the Veterans. However, by not having a Hero with them, they cannot call At the Double, and so will find them lagging behind the rest of the army. It also means they cannot boost their rolls, including the charge to maximise their ability. In their case, the banner is useful, as it also improves the odds of getting bonus attack dice.

With your Rohan allies, you hit the same issue where Eomer cannot be in the command company due to the banner. Avatar's suggestion of turning them into Erkenbrand's Riders with Eomer acting as Erkenbrand ignores the issue, since Erkenbrand would be allowed within the command company.

I like the Rangers of Ithilien, although I feel they might be one company too large. Mainly it comes down to what kind of sized terrain you play with. As since they should be Ambushing, you want to make sure they can fit in the terrain. Also, since half of the companies can fire directly, rounded up, you only get two companies firing directly whether you have three or four companies. So that could buy youanother company elsewhere.

I haven't totalled up the points, but I would like to ask how you worked out the point costs of your Legendary formations. I ask because it is an issue that has come up several times, and current concensus [based on strong evidence] is that you pay for each company and then the additional price for the Legendary on top. So for example, the correct price of your four companies of Osgiliath Veterans would be 260 points.

Hope that has given you some food for thought, and as Avatar said, Jorgen is a good player to take advice from - And he should sig his Gondor Tactica, so others can easily find it. In the mean time, have a look for it in the Tactics section, if you haven't already.

Banimal
15-05-2009, 05:51
I've put my new list up for some more tearing. I've dropped most of the banners(pretty much all of them now), leaving just captains and epic heroes. I've also made those Veterans a 4 company strong formation with Faramir and orcbane (I haven't played at my LGS for a while, but from what I've heard there are quite a few orc players, including my brother).

@Nu Fenix: I think the prices for everything are right now. Also, about my Foot Knights: Will the Knight Champion be enough for them? Or should I move the KC to my KotA and have Imrahil baby-sit the ground troops?

Thanks for all the advice.

Jorgen_CAB
15-05-2009, 06:57
I thought I would throw some of my thought in here as well.

Overall I think that you last version is really good and I think that you will be able to handle most of your opponents.

In regard to Epic Heroes and cavalry... it is true that you need to put the Epic hero in another company, but I would not dismiss Epic heroes there entirely. You have six companies and you can also opt to remove the banner before you remove the Epic Hero. You are not force to remove the Epic Hero before you remove the banner bearer in the command company. At least as far as I know. If you do then the Epic Heroes company becomes the command company or it's rather that the Epic Hero is moved to the command company. I practice it is the same thing.

One good strategy with this force would be to put the Veterans and Avengers in one flank and have them act as a refused flank. You then put the Warriors in the center and have them act as the anvil.

The Foot Knights, Knights and Rohan Cavalry smash down the other flank and crush the enemy to pieces. ;)

I would only change one thing if I used this tactic and that would be to put Faramir in the big formation of Warriors of Minas Tirith. He will use his inspiring leadership ability best that way. The Veterans works much better on a flank than at the center, it increases their chances to get flank shots at shielded enemies. The vets already have a captain so you save some points there to put on banner for your cavalry, see below.
Also, all cavalry formation should use a banner, unless really small. So my advice would be to have the Rohan cavalry use a banner. Knights of Dol Amroth should definitely have a banner and a captain, Imrahil goes to the foot knights instead. Their special charge rule makes banners even more worth it.

Quannum
15-05-2009, 09:36
Ok, as the other seasoned Gondor player here, I though I'd chime in on your latest. Let's see what we got:


Faramir

Prince Imrahil

Eomer

1x6 Companies Minas Tirith Warriors: Captain

1x4 Companies Minas Tirith Warriors: Captain

1x3 Companies Minas Tirith Archers

1x3 Companies Foot Knights of Dol Amroth: Banner Bearer, Knight Champion

1x4 Companies Knights of Dol Amroth(Imrahil)

1x2 Companies Avenger Bolt Throwers

1x3 Companies Rangers of Ithilien

1x4 Companies Osgiliath Veterans(Faramir)

1x6 Companies Riders of Rohan Éored(Eomer)

Fortune: Orcbane Weapons(Veterans)

Right, there are a few things I'd alter.

1) Firstly, I'd take the above advice and drop Eomer and the Riders for 4 Companies of Erkenbrand's Riders. Their special rule is invaluable and they have a good statline and versatile equipment.

2) Your main body of normal infantry is good but IMO slightly too large - the size of your formations may crowd a smaller table and limit the manouvrability of your veteran units. Drop two companies from the larger Warriors of MT unit.

3) Using Orcbane Weapons in a list of this points value is IMO a waste as you cannot guarantee you'll be facing Orcs, and there are far better Fortunes at a cheaper price available. Your list seems to be geared towards taking all comers and so I'd buy a Fortune accordingly - I'd buy Galadhrim Longbows for the Osgiliath Veterans to make them the Shoot Value they should be. This will make them a highly versatile formation choice for the list.

Using the free points you can add two more companies of Veterans, (which will only compound the effectiveness of the Galadhrim Bows). Your new list would look something like this:

Faramir - 90

Prince Imrahil - 125

4 Companies Minas Tirith Warriors: Captain - 150

4 Companies Minas Tirith Warriors: Captain – 150

3 Companies Minas Tirith Archers - 90

3 Companies Foot Knights of Dol Amroth: Banner Bearer, Knight Champion – 220

4 Companies Knights of Dol Amroth(Imrahil) - 200

2 Companies Avenger Bolt Throwers - 100

3 Companies Rangers of Ithilien - 185

6 Companies Osgiliath Veterans(Faramir) 330

4 Companies Erkenbrand’s Riders – 275

Fortune: Galahdrim Longbows(Osgiliath Veterans) 75

1990

Hope that helps.

Q