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View Full Version : WoC Question About Screening Frenz. Knights



Morglum5780
15-05-2009, 17:31
in an army list that includes both hounds and marauder horsemen, which is better to screen frenzied knights? I would think the fast cav are better used to protect the flanks by redirecting charges.

selone
15-05-2009, 17:36
Hounds is the answer.

Chaos Puppy
15-05-2009, 18:19
Yes hounds will do it. Their cheep and are a great screen for anything pretty much, if they don't fail their leadership tests.

Avian
15-05-2009, 18:35
Which they aren't likely to do if they are within range of your general. Ld 8-9 with a re-roll is quite nice. It will limit the placement of your general somewhat, though. If that is a problem you can use Horsemen, but usually Warhounds are better at those jobs with a high chance of dying since you can get 2-3 of them for the cost of one Horseman and they only die marginally quicker.

Seville
15-05-2009, 19:35
Yep, as everyone else has said, the answer is dogs. Your horsemen should be taking flanks and doing damage. The dogs are just there to bait and die.

changer of fate
15-05-2009, 23:19
do screens ment to die or run away so the knight could charge through to the target?

Dexter099
16-05-2009, 05:56
Hound Screening is fairly easy to counter, as controlling Khorne Knights is like trying to single-handedly sacrifice a victim on the pyramids of Tenochtitlan without drugging him first.

Seville
16-05-2009, 07:54
Hound Screening is fairly easy to counter, as controlling Khorne Knights is like trying to single-handedly sacrifice a victim on the pyramids of Tenochtitlan without drugging him first.

Yeah, I know people like to pretend it's really easy to "just bait the Khorne knights", but it isn't. Another internet "true-ism" that just isn't true.

Very, very odd analogy, by the way.

_Kalas_
16-05-2009, 10:20
I second Seville.
It's this damn internet wisdom, and those unsupported, repeated statements.
Of course it's easy to bait one frenzied unscreended cav unit.
What about 4 or 5 frenzied screened units? "just panic the hounds, and bait knights/warriors with expandable units, and than hit them in the flank, break, and run down"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, what a great example of THEORYHAMMER.I can't think of better right now.

selone
16-05-2009, 11:54
do screens ment to die or run away so the knight could charge through to the target?

The screening unit gets out of the way just before the khorne player wants to get engaged. Being wiped out and running off is one of the ways as is moving them or charging units with them although be careful -
I had a game where he charged his warhounds into a dark elf army I was lending, I beat the hounds and pursued a whopping amount into his screened unit :D

Dexter099
16-05-2009, 22:01
Selone gives a good example of countering screeners, by charging them with your own units, charging the frenzied untis behind them, beating the frenzied units and breaking their frenzy, and possibly running them down. But there are supposed to be 100 hounds blocking the frenzied knights, who are all supposed to get out of the way at the right time as well?

It's really very quite easy to kill the weak screening hounds by charging them with marauder horsemen. The hounds will lose combat, flee, and get run down, or stay there and slow up the rest of the battleline an extra turn, or risk the Khornate units catching sight of the unit of marauder horsemen. Your hounds can then bait half of the frenzied army away from the battle.

I did this to a khornate player once, 1/3 of his army ran off into the woods after 5 warahounds, while the rest of his army got mauled by my full force.

Jind_Singh
17-05-2009, 17:52
yeah i play against a WoC who has 3-4 units of khorne knights, yet to have succesfully baited them!
warhounds and mara. horse with throwing axes are gems.
the mara. horse run forwards, hit on 4+ with strength 4 - then flee when they get charged.
Hounds are used as meat screens, then run forwards and die - or they flee and keep on fleeing but big deal - they are so cheap!
Then the nasty knights hit home - crunch!
Another perfectly good army gets trampled into the dust!

Morglum5780
17-05-2009, 18:13
the point of the screen is to charge a different target to get them out of the way in the same turn that you are charging with the knights (making sure they can see in the previous turn of course). If you get a charge off on the screening unit, the knight player isnt doing it right! :)

PeG
17-05-2009, 18:21
or if you have problems with moving the screen do a reform and reduce the number of models in each rank to for example 1. That should get them out of the way.

Dexter099
17-05-2009, 20:09
Charging something else is the better way, since your knights may have trouble moving around the reformed hound conga line, and will waste movement as they are forced to charge within 14".

Charging the hounds at another target will allow you to charge with your knights next turn, but make sure to clear the area of fast cavalry before doing this.

Morglum5780
17-05-2009, 23:26
Charging the hounds at another target will allow you to charge with your knights next turn,
you can do it the in same turn as long as you set yourself up right, meaning the the knights can see their intended target through the screen (that last model in the line has los for example)

Chicago Slim
18-05-2009, 00:31
Using a cav-cav screen does require some skill, particularly in estimating measurement. As has been suggested above, the enemy has the potential to charge the screen, who can either stand and get crushed, or else flee allowing the chargers to declare Enemy in the Way on the Frenzied cavalry. If the chargers are themselves cavalry (or big infantry), they can be fast enough to get EitW from a considerable distance out.

By which point, you're back to the old problem of setting up the distance so that you get the charge, and he doesn't, which depends on being a better judge of distance. Almost like there's no "trick" that can get you out of the need for fundamentally good play... :)