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FictionalCharacter
15-05-2009, 22:27
does it receive the armor save bonus when used with a hand weapon, or does that only apply to normal shields?

GraveGuard
15-05-2009, 22:32
Yes it does, all magic Shields do.

Fluff wise - the explantion is its a Parrying move using the weapon and sheild to block/deflect/turn - so regardless of the shield it would still work with a Hand Weapon whereas trying to block/parry/deflect with a shield and a spear/polearm/magical weapon won't work.

FictionalCharacter
15-05-2009, 22:37
thanks much.

Da GoBBo
16-05-2009, 01:33
Even a magic weapon that is also a handweapon gives the bonus with an enchanted shield.

rtunian
16-05-2009, 02:06
Even a magic weapon that is also a handweapon gives the bonus with an enchanted shield.

er... are there any magic weapons that count as hand weapons?

afaik, 'hand weapons' only applies to the mundane hand weapons that just about every model has by default. the reason magic shields work with the parry bonus is because their rules start with the word "shield."

even the sword of striking, for example, doesn't say 'hand weapon', it says 'weapon'. there is a difference! that one word is missing because the benefits of magic weapons are generally better than a +1 to your armor save. obviously the much better magic weapons exemplify a larger disparity.

the parry rule is meant to help grunt infantry have a chance of surviving combat long enough to be relevant to the game.

Rolo Ramone
16-05-2009, 02:26
Yes there are. Bretonnian Sword of the Quest.

Goruax
16-05-2009, 02:42
I believe there are 1 or 2 Magical Weapons that specifically state Hand Weapon.

Those rare few do give the normal bonus (note; not actually called a parry bonus anymore, but you can if you want :p)
Most Magical Weapons do not have the Hand Weapon stipulation, meaning they do not give you the benefit of HW/Sh.

Griefbringer
16-05-2009, 09:03
Even a magic weapon that is also a handweapon gives the bonus with an enchanted shield.

Though the sloppy writing in the FAQ could unfortunately make it possible to argue this.

havoc626
16-05-2009, 10:48
There is only 1 magic hand weapon that can really be used with a shield, as the other 2 are in DoC, who can't have shields.

The Bret magic item is the only magic hand weapon able to give the bonus, and you would have to take a character on foot in order to be able to have the bonus. Mind you, considering the fact that it is a Bret character, you'd prob have a better save on horse back anyway.

Griefbringer
16-05-2009, 10:59
And of course to be able to take a Bretonnian character on foot, you would need to give him the virtue of empathy - meaning that you could only do it on a Bretonnian lord, not on a paladin.

Though you could try to mount a paladin on a royal pegasus and then hope that the enemy will shoot the flying pony dead so that you could dismount.

chivalrous
16-05-2009, 11:45
Some would argue that the Whip of Agony could also get away with this.
Since it follows the rules for Beastmasters' Scourges and their rules state 'Handweapon, in addition...'

I'd be interested to see what other people thought about this.

Atrahasis
16-05-2009, 11:54
Yes, you can get the +1 save for hand weapon and shield from the Whip of Agony.

You can't get +1A though, because you can never use a mundane weapon and a magical weapon together.

selone
16-05-2009, 12:08
Though you could try to mount a paladin on a royal pegasus and then hope that the enemy will shoot the flying pony dead so that you could dismount.

You'd be amazed how many times this happens. I think I've shot off the pegaus in all my games vs Brett's.

EDIT
All bar 1 actually where my arrer boyz killed it in hand to hand.

Gazak Blacktoof
16-05-2009, 12:38
There is only 1 magic hand weapon that can really be used with a shield, as the other 2 are in DoC, who can't have shields.

The dark elves have two as well.

Griefbringer
16-05-2009, 13:49
because you can never use a mundane weapon and a magical weapon together

Unless you are wielding one of the new magic weapons (Dagger of Something) which from what I have heard has a special rule allowing you to wield a mundane hand weapon with it for the extra attack.

moose
16-05-2009, 16:04
Tomb Guard's killing blow magical weapons specifically state that they count as handweapons. Woop.


Moose.

changer of fate
17-05-2009, 09:06
khonrad von carstein's sword can grant him an additional attack in combat with a mundane hand weapon.