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Dvnjhn
16-05-2009, 09:20
Okay, I am using my chaos dragon as a mount... I have a nurgle themed army. Do you think it would be better to have a sorcerer lord on it? Or a Chaos lord?????

Makaber
16-05-2009, 10:10
People will probably say Sorcerer Lord, but I don't think Chaos Lord is a bad choice either. I've played some against one, and it's a tactical nightmare, because it's both hyper mobile, able to pick its own fights, and hits more than hard enough to pretty much decimate anything you can throw at it.

However, seeing as the two models doesn't need to be that different, maybe you could make some sort of swappable solution? I'd recommend looking into having a model with a replacable torso, securing the waste joint by two pins, or ideally small magnets (instead of gluing it). Then you can make two distinct upper bodies, one for each type of character, and use the same set of legs attached to the same dragon. It's gonna be awesome!

Dvnjhn
16-05-2009, 10:27
I am actually trying to get a cheap palaquin of nurlge for the rider to sit on. Lord with hw and shield and trying to find a insane model with a good 'staff' for the sorcerer lord.

corum_jhaelen_irsei
19-05-2009, 12:46
This is something i have wanted to do with my Nurgle force for many years now, just never really been happy with the results i have come up with though...:(

Keller
19-05-2009, 12:55
One of our Chaos players used a Chaos Lord on Dragon to great affect in our last campaign. He usually played Beasts with Nurgle marks, but I don't remember if the Lord was Khorne or Nurgle. It was under the old rule set in 6th Edition, when Chaos was all one army.

Anyway, the Lord on Dragon is a very scary sight, but the Sorcerer has some uses too. I guess it depends on if you want to charge into combat and slay things, or skirt around units, breathing fire and casting spells while scaring them with terror. I oft prefer the latter, but that's a whole lot of points to do it, points which can die to a lucky cannon/bolt-thrower.

bob_the_small
19-05-2009, 20:00
A sorcerer lord, plus dont forget he doesnt have to be your general as he doesnt have the highest leadership in the army...

Clegane
19-05-2009, 20:08
Personally, I wouldn't put the Sorc Lord on a Dragon. You're paying a LOT of points for that Dragon and a good chunk of those points are because of its devastating CC abilities.

You're not likely to be wanting to tie him up in CC, both because he is likely to be softer than the Chaos Lord (if he's geared up for spellcasting anyway) and because getting stuck in combat is going to limit his spellcasting potential.

If you feel you absolutely must have a Sorc Lord flying all over the field, I'd either mark him for Tzeentch and put him on a disc or (if you want to keep him Nurgle) save yourself the 160 points by putting him on a Manticore. Sure, its an inferior mount. But you're not wanting to get into CC anyway.

ROCKY
20-05-2009, 00:46
if u are going nurgle then i suggest a chaos lord. -1ws and -1to shoot is awesome, toss in a ward save or regeneration and take the chaos rune sword WS9 S6 6 attacks I7 is nasty. add 6 S6 attacks for the dragon=nasty. i would consider taking bloodcurdling roar with the lord.

Mercules
20-05-2009, 19:02
I prefer the Sorcerer Lord. As a Level 4 caster with the Nurgle spell list he can be devastating magically. I have been mounting one on a Chaos Steed and charging around with Chaos Knights. In combat he isn't as nasty as the Chaos Lord, but he is still bloody tough. He can chew up things at range or in close with the right equipment.

bork da basher
20-05-2009, 20:50
i prefer the chaos lord, sorcerer lords will have to gear themselves too much to offense and defense rather than concentrating on magic. if your using a chaos dragon as a mount and not intending to get into heavy combat you could save ALOT of points and buy MoT and a disc.

a lord can happily tool himself up and throw himself about with confidence that outside of badluck and artillery very little will kill him easily.

sulla
21-05-2009, 06:07
I like the idea of a nurgle sorceror lord.

Being mounted on the dragon gives him great LoS, good protection (the dragon can soak up a lot of punishment), and the ability to hurt enemies through psychology and shooting as well as just magic.

Assuming you have a support mage or two nearby (either flying tzeench disc-guys or mounted sorcerors in marauder horse), you should have +1 to cast and the infernal puppet to reduce the risks from miscasts.

You could get something like sword of might (3s5 attacks), enchanted shield (2+ armour save), golden eye of tzeench (4+ward vs shooting and magic), d.scroll and diabolic splendour (-1 to all terror, fear, panic tests caused by the bearer or his unit) for a good all round defensive setup.

Smart positioning means you will never have to fight anything which can actually threaten you while you are a threat in all phases of the game. Chaos lords are a bit too one dimensional IMO. And a 700pt chaos lord will struggle to rack up enough points to justify himself.

Kerill
21-05-2009, 07:39
I'd go sorceror lord, nurgle magic goes together well with a dragon.

4+ regen on the dragon and lord
Curse of the leper+breath attacks

Having a level 4 mage for some dispelling ability against beasts cowers and the like is pretty useful as well.

Havock
21-05-2009, 15:56
Smart positioning means you will never have to fight anything which can actually threaten you while you are a threat in all phases of the game. Chaos lords are a bit too one dimensional IMO. And a 700pt chaos lord will struggle to rack up enough points to justify himself.

He's also quite predictable. He's going to kick your teeth in; granted, he is good at it, but that's it.
A sorcerer lord can make a mess of things by just landing next to a unit, casting away and then following up with the two breath attacks.
A wizard with a runesword and enchanted shield is no pushover in combat either -and there's still the twin-headed lizard you are sitting on-, 4 S5 attacks and 6 S6 attacks at WS6 will make a mess of most flanks.

Gaargod
21-05-2009, 16:18
Um, i don;'t get why everyone thinks a chaos lord is only good at one thing, whereas a sorcerer lord is good at everything.

A chaos lord is just as quick as a sorcerer lord, and is much more threatening in the movement phase - with a runesword + dragon, he can charge even a ranked block of infantry in the front and expect to win. I wouldn't, but you could with him, certainly not with sorc lord.

They're just as good at shooting. Breath weapon + maybe roar.

They're just as good at disruption. Nothing stopping a lord taking diabolic splendour (and personally i'd say they should always have it if on a big beastie).

The only thing he can't do is magic. But he is just as dangerous - fly him up turn 1, point him towards flanks, while knights walk up. Either way they turn, they die (same as bloodthirster + hounds really).

Havock
21-05-2009, 16:32
Um, i don;'t get why everyone thinks a chaos lord is only good at one thing, whereas a sorcerer lord is good at everything.

A chaos lord is just as quick as a sorcerer lord, and is much more threatening in the movement phase

I don't see how a lord on dragon is more threatening in the movement phase than a sorcerer lord on dragon.


- with a runesword + dragon, he can charge even a ranked block of infantry in the front and expect to win. I wouldn't, but you could with him, certainly not with sorc lord.

Let's see, standard T3 4+ save infantry:
Sorcerer lord with runesword: 4 attacks, hits on 3s: 3 hits
2+ to wound: 3 wounds.
4+ save becomes 6+, lets be generous: he saves one.
that's two wounds

Dragon hits 5, wounds 4, which allow no save.

Six wounds total, nothing strikes back.
ranks (3)
Banner (1)
Outnumber (1)

Win by one. So no, it's not a good bet, but why should you charge such a unit frontally? land next to it and spit at it two times and it will do far more damage. Then flank charge whatever unit is next to it.



They're just as good at shooting. Breath weapon + maybe roar.

Correct, but the lord is focussed around combat; to reach his potential, he has to be in combat. The sorcerer can act as a standoff nuking platform until he has found a combat he can fight on his terms (read: flank/rear charge)


They're just as good at disruption. Nothing stopping a lord taking diabolic splendour (and personally i'd say they should always have it if on a big beastie).

Nope, by virtue of being a level 4 caster, the sorcerer lord is far superior at disruption.


The only thing he can't do is magic. But he is just as dangerous - fly him up turn 1, point him towards flanks, while knights walk up. Either way they turn, they die (same as bloodthirster + hounds really).

Same accounts for the Sorcerer really, it's much the same build, except the wizard can cast stuff at the enemy. Like gateway :p
Then charge and pop it off once more to destroy other units.

Mercules
22-05-2009, 19:12
And a Nurgle Sorcer Lord can throw Rot, Glorious Rot while in combat. It hits every enemy unit in 18". It will help clear out things that are fragile but might want to flank you.

Lets run down spells and see what a Sorcerer might bring to the table.

Nurgle

Magnificent Buboes - 24" LoS ANY model can be target. Now you can hit the Vampire hiding in a unit behind another unit. Only terrain or another large target can block LoS. NICE.
Fleshy Abundance - Regen Save on a Dragon. Excellent!
Plague Squall - Fires like a Stone Thrower. Why do we put war machines on hills if we can? To fire over other troops. Large Target comes in handy again over a Disk.
Cloying Quagmire - Not much help, but again you can see over blocking units and it need LoS.
Curse of the Leper - Is going to lower Toughness. This just makes the breath weapons that much more devestating.
Rot, Glorious Rot - Hey look, I can fly over there, land in the middle of a chunk of my opponent's army likely out of charge lines, and cast this spell the same turn. I can then hop to another part and do it again, and again, and again. Dragons are hard to catch and provide defense for their rider.


Tzeentch

Flickering Fire of Tzeentch - Not a whole lot other than LoS.
Baleful Transmogrification - Not much Synergy.
Pandaemonium - Um... Terror checks when the troops can't use the Character's Leadership? Yes please!
Treason of Tzeentch - Place yourself behind them with Flight. Cast spell if they flee they flee towards the nearest board edge through your Dragon and are wiped out.
Call To glory - No synergy.
Ingernal Gateway - No synergy, but does it really need to be made better?


Slaanesh

Lash of Slaanesh - No synergy other than LoS. Good March block spell making you dragon mobility greater.
Hellshriek - Yet more panic. Begining of turn, Terror check, and Magic Phase Panic check. This really makes giving the rider a -1 Ld upgrade fantastic.
Hysterical Frenzy - Can be cast on self and it will Frenzy the Dragon and rider. Not fantastic but extra attacks are nice and it is unlikely to do much damage to a dragon.
Titillating Delusions - Um... Make vulnerable units Charge your Dragon. Maybe you will get lucky and declaring a charge, fail it's Terror check and break.
Aura of Acquiescence - Anyone who can attack you must roll Leadership to do so. Handy, but expensive since the other benifits don't matter.
Ecstatic Seizures - Not much Synergy.


A few others you could end up with:


Crown of Taidron - Everything in 12" takes D6 S4 hits. On a dragon you can do this easily without support troops or your own you might wound.
Unseen Lurker - Hello, fly over, turn around, cast spell, Rear Charge.
Pit of Shades - LoS again, very handy to get past blocking units to the ones with Low Init.
Portent of Far makes your Dragon more deadly.
Celestial Shield - Ward save vrs shooting. Nice!
Doom and Darkness! -3 to Ld for my Terror checks? Nice.
Wall of Fire - Here, have this, now get rid of it before I can charge you or the flee reaction will not be kind.


Sorcerer Lord all the way for the flexibility.