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BigbyWolf
17-05-2009, 18:50
Don't have my BRB to hand, so unsure if this is covered in the "Mounts" section, but here goes:

A giant is in combat with a character on a large monster, let's say a High Elf Lord on a dragon...rules state you get to pick which one to attack, as you have to roll on separate tables to see what the giant will do. You roll "Pick up and throw into different unit", this means the little pointy-eared chap gets nailed into a unit of Swordmasters and the dragon is now unridden...can the Lord ever get back on the dragon?

Also, as a bit of a side note...the giant rolls "Jump up and down" after nominating to fight the Lord...are we to assume the Elf kindly gets off the dragon and lets the giant leap on him? It has to be the only explanation- otherwise the dragon would have to take hits as well! :eyebrows:

nosferatu1001
17-05-2009, 19:57
1) No, he cannot. there are no rules for mounting or dismounting.

2) yes, hes jumped up and down on him

BigbyWolf
17-05-2009, 20:06
1) No, he cannot. there are no rules for mounting or dismounting.

Excellent...next time I come up against Karl Franz I'll be praying I can pull that off!


2) yes, hes jumped up and down on him

Yeah, I knew he'd jump on the Lord...just a bit odd that the mount wouldn't take any damage. Perhaps in the case of a mounted model the hits should be randomized.

T10
17-05-2009, 20:16
Jump up and down
In close combat you get to allocate your attacks on either the rider or the monster mount, so you can target the rider and get the Jump Up and Down or Swing With Club results. However, these hits are distributed as shooting hits. This is indicated in the description of those attacks, so distribute them you must.

Pick Up and Hurl
While it is true that there are no rules for characters returning to a monstrous mount, there is also nothing in the Giant rules that say that the Pick Up and Hurl attack separates rider from mount.

I can see that it would be natural to assume that this is the case, but if you are willing to accept that then surely you can agree to have the rider and mount rejoin.

This game isn't a computer game. You are allowed to think for yourselves and come up with reasonable solutions to situations not covered by the rules.

-T10

tarrasque
17-05-2009, 20:39
i belief that in a faq it is asked what happens to a char if he is trow in a different unit where eh is picked up. it stats that if the model isn't killed it isn't actuality moved so you can assume it 'magical' re apeers on the dragon.

T10
17-05-2009, 20:54
Cool. I believe (sic) that a link to this FAQ may serve to validate this information.

danny-d-b
17-05-2009, 21:07
bacily the giant has picked the dragon up by the tail and swung him round like a fanatic would a big spiky ball with the elf clining on for dear life

BigbyWolf
17-05-2009, 22:59
Jump up and down
In close combat you get to allocate your attacks on either the rider or the monster mount, so you can target the rider and get the Jump Up and Down or Swing With Club results. However, these hits are distributed as shooting hits. This is indicated in the description of those attacks, so distribute them you must.

If that's so then I'm happy, I'd love to see the look on an opponents face when you wipe out the rider and dragon in one swing/ splat. I'd always assumed that as you had to nominate to attack only one of them, you could only deal damage to the one you picked.

Sometimes I love to be wrong! :D


Pick Up and Hurl
While it is true that there are no rules for characters returning to a monstrous mount, there is also nothing in the Giant rules that say that the Pick Up and Hurl attack separates rider from mount.

And that's even better...does anyone have a "thrown dragon" template? ;)

tarrasque
18-05-2009, 10:46
Cool. I believe (sic) that a link to this FAQ may serve to validate this information.
linkylinky (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350036_WarriorsofChaosFAQFeb2009.pdf)
Q. If a Giant ‘Hurls’ a rank and file model
with multiple wounds, a ward save, or
regeneration and it survives, what happens?
A. Put the model back into his original unit…
we assume it made its own way back after
regaining consciousness (‘passing his wound
around’ if it goes back to a unit of multiplewound
creatures!).


not exacly what i thought but seeing a dragon and his rider is still a unit...

Atrahasis
18-05-2009, 10:55
A dragon and rider are definitely not "rank and file" though.

Arnizipal
18-05-2009, 11:04
Jump up and down
In close combat you get to allocate your attacks on either the rider or the monster mount, so you can target the rider and get the Jump Up and Down or Swing With Club results. However, these hits are distributed as shooting hits. This is indicated in the description of those attacks, so distribute them you must.
Wasn't there a FAQ on this explaining only the character gets hit and we were supposed to imagine the giant picking up the character, throwing him to the ground and jumping on him? Though that may have been a 6th edition FAQ.

Grimgormx
18-05-2009, 22:48
I dont have my O6G at hand, but as far as I know you cant chose to direct the Giant attacks to a specific part of a model, if you are fighting an elf lord in a dragon then you just use the Giants attack for big creatures (from ogre sized and up) if you are fighting small creatures (cavalry and human size infantry, then you have to use the small things attacks)

So there is no way you will be able to grab the lord and trhow it in to another unit.

But if you get the result of thumb with club, you will have to ramdomize the wounds betwen lord and dragon (as shooting), once I killed an elf lord and a stelar dragon this way... it was awesome

Atrahasis
19-05-2009, 08:02
You can always choose to attack anything that you're in base contact with - the normal rules for combat allow it and the giant rules do not disallow it, in fact IIRC they say to select a target as normal.

Grimgormx
19-05-2009, 21:29
I dont agree, Giant attacks are resolved as shooting, so if you are fighting a big model, then you have to use the big model attacks.

I cant see my Giant directing his attacks to the champion of a unit, then he starts jumping up and down in 1 toe so he only hits the champio.

Giants are kind of slow, I cant think on a Giant more worried in picking a small elf lord out of a Gragon and ignoring the big amenace of a dragon.

You cant select the way it fights, because his attacks arent normal attacks.

Urgat
19-05-2009, 22:01
You'(re wrong though, the case of riders on monster is specifically mentionned, you choose which one you attack. You can't randomise anyway, since you have to roll on two different tables to even know what attack you'll get.

Clegane
20-05-2009, 03:06
I dont agree, Giant attacks are resolved as shooting, so if you are fighting a big model, then you have to use the big model attacks.

I cant see my Giant directing his attacks to the champion of a unit, then he starts jumping up and down in 1 toe so he only hits the champio.

Giants are kind of slow, I cant think on a Giant more worried in picking a small elf lord out of a Gragon and ignoring the big amenace of a dragon.

You cant select the way it fights, because his attacks arent normal attacks.

You may disagree all you wish, sir, but you are quite wrong.

The entry for the giant specifically states:
"When fighting characters riding monsters or chariots, decide whether to attack the rider or the mount/chariot, as normal, and use the appropriate table for the size of the target."

It really cannot possibly be worded any clearer. Christ knows there are enough poorly-worded and ambiguous rules in Warhammer as it is, we sure as hell don't need to be arguing over ones that are written plainly and clearly. ;)

knightime98
20-05-2009, 09:44
Just read my signature by whom Clegane posted about a month ago or so.. It's priceless but very true!!!

T10
21-05-2009, 10:44
linkylinky (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350036_WarriorsofChaosFAQFeb2009.pdf)
Q. If a Giant ‘Hurls’ a rank and file model
with multiple wounds, a ward save, or
regeneration and it survives, what happens?
A. Put the model back into his original unit…
we assume it made its own way back after
regaining consciousness (‘passing his wound
around’ if it goes back to a unit of multiplewound
creatures!).


not exacly what i thought but seeing a dragon and his rider is still a unit...

It works for me. I will recommend this as the simple solution for dealing with characters "hurled" away from their mounts.

-T10

Clegane
21-05-2009, 11:13
It works for me. I will recommend this as the simple solution for dealing with characters "hurled" away from their mounts.

-T10

As Atrahasis pointed out, this FAQ question specifically addresses 'rank and file' models returning to their formation. I suppose that, in the absence of clear, more specific rules, it makes a decent enough guideline. And it certainly is simpler than arguing about it.

But, by the letter of the FAQ, it would not apply, as characters on monstrous mounts are certainly not 'rank and file.'

Lord Dan
21-05-2009, 13:08
But, by the letter of the FAQ, it would not apply, as characters on monstrous mounts are certainly not 'rank and file.'

Out of curiosity, how many rank-and-file multi-wound units with ward saves can you think of?

Atrahasis
21-05-2009, 13:11
Flesh Hounds, Flamers.

The requirement isn't for multiwound with ward save anyway, it's for multiwound OR ward save, and there are a bunch more of them.