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ToXiK
18-05-2009, 16:06
why is it that the traitor legions are mostly made up from marines that were alive during the heresy where as the loyalists are young in comparison i mean 400 years is considered old i know time is different in the warp but with all the in house fighting etc surly there would be very few left?

JCOLL
18-05-2009, 16:11
You mean very few Chaos characters? For example, if you've read Storm of Iron by Grahamn Mcneil you would know that Honsou was there with his forces fighting over a depository of Gene Seed. Chaos Marines are constantly looking for new recruits to swell their numbers for planned Black Crusades and raids. Not to mention new recruits that are made from Chaos all together (daemons inhabiting Astrates armor). There are always new up and coming hot shots looking to make their Chaos Lords proud. So just as with loyalists gaining new recruits and having some rise to stardom, chaos marines are the same. The new book of short stories Heros of the Space Marines has many stories of Chaos Marines seeking Chaos Glory.

ToXiK
18-05-2009, 16:16
ill have to check that book out. no what i was asking was why are there characters from the heresy from the traitors still around and none except a dread from the loylists i can understand lucius as he is repeatedly brought back to life and kharn has once as well but the rest?

WorLord
18-05-2009, 16:17
A lot of the fluff (esp. around 1st and 2nd edition) had the powers of chaos keeping traitor marines alive long past the point they should have died from old age, wounds, etc. Kind of like dealing with Dracula in the movies - just because you inflicted some lethal wound today doesn't mean he won't be back be back for the next battle.
Also, many CSM have extensive bionics, mutations, and/or have fused with their armor, making them very hard to kill. I know if I had been fighting and looting for the better part of 10,000 years I would have made some major upgrades to my battle gear.

JCOLL
18-05-2009, 17:13
Marines are close to immortal in that old age and disease does not effect them. Though they do age. A bolt through the cranium changes that, though. Most of the Loyalist characters have fallen in battle, having been wounded beyond the help of their apothecaries. In a fluff view, I think it also gives loyalist marines a sense of identity and something to work toward when your great leaders have fallen in battle. On one hand you have all their great deeds and abilities, but on the other you show how vulnerable they can still be. I hear a lot that the IG are the closest thing to humanity in the 40K universe, but I relaly think that the Marines are more human than they are made out to be. Chaos Marines are supposed to be big and bad, so having them rally behind fallen comrades doesn't work the way it does for loyalists. To die is to be weak and there can be no weakness in the traitor armies. So they tend to not venerate fallen leaders. Just a thought.

Petay1985
18-05-2009, 18:43
dont forget some fluff points towards time flowing differently in the eye of terror. so it is perfectly feasible for the traitors to only be 200-300 years old where as in real time its been 10,000 years.

combine this with jcoll's post and that pretty much justifies young/orl ong living traitor marines and relatively none/no loyalists.

captainramoz
20-05-2009, 15:08
Warp keeps them alive
If it worked for Lysander(maibe even older than Dante) then it work for csm scum

Ubermensch Commander
20-05-2009, 16:13
dont forget some fluff points towards time flowing differently in the eye of terror. so it is perfectly feasible for the traitors to only be 200-300 years old where as in real time its been 10,000 years.

combine this with jcoll's post and that pretty much justifies young/orl ong living traitor marines and relatively none/no loyalists.

This. Also, there really is not that many Traitors from the original Siege of Terra.
1)Attrition. They were on the losing side of the war. This does not equate to having most of your forces intact.
2) Intercine Conflict. Driven out of the real world, they then fight one another for the limited usable resources in the Eye of Terror.
3) Promotions!(kinda) Most, if not all, of the old guard who have been around since the Heresy and have had over 200 years to fight(yknow, were not in the slowest time dialtion bits of the warp) are going to have been promoted to at least Aspiring Champion rank. Otherwise, they are the dregs of the Chaos Marines.
Chaos Marine FNG "So Bob, how long have you been stuck at the lowest rank of marine and forbidden from even using any special weapons?"
Bob: "Its been over 6'000 years! I don't know what their problem is! I am a great warrior!"
FNG: "Sure bob....you do know you are holding your boltgun backwards right?"
Bob: "Am I? DAMMIT!"