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Dungeon_Lawyer
18-05-2009, 19:28
What happens if a unit breaks from a combat when it is engaged with enemies to its front and rear, are they destroyed utterly?:confused:

Atrahasis
18-05-2009, 19:39
No. Compare the rolls for flee/pursuit.

Units cannot be destrpyed by fleeing through units they are engaged with.

Dungeon_Lawyer
18-05-2009, 20:44
No. Compare the rolls for flee/pursuit.

Units cannot be destrpyed by fleeing through units they are engaged with.

ok thanks,
Hypthectical: so a unit of greatswords is engaged with saurus spears in the front and some skink skirmishers in the rear. Lizardmen win combat, greatswords fail break test--so the greatswords flee through the skinks in the rear? And do I then choose which unit (saurus or skinks) pursues them first?
Where is this found in the rulebook? cause I cant find it....

Spirit
18-05-2009, 20:49
You decide which units are chasing and which are testing to restrain before they roll their dice to flee.

When they flee, they run from the highest US unit, weather is tests to hold or not.

If the units are going to physically touch after the flee has been completed, then just end the pursuing unit 1" away from the fleeing one.

Dungeon_Lawyer
18-05-2009, 21:38
You decide which units are chasing and which are testing to restrain before they roll their dice to flee.

When they flee, they run from the highest US unit, weather is tests to hold or not.

If the units are going to physically touch after the flee has been completed, then just end the pursuing unit 1" away from the fleeing one.

if the units physically touch adter the flee, then wouldnt the fleeing unit be destroyed?

Grimgormx
18-05-2009, 21:50
just roll dices, if the greatswords flee 8 inch, and the skinks pursue 6, put the skinks 2 inches away (you dont get to move the full 6, just put them 2 inches away) if the pursuers roll equal or more than the fleing unit, then it gets destroyed.

Necromancy Black
18-05-2009, 22:08
Go backa nd read page 41. Keep reading til you find the answer cause it's there.

Spirit
18-05-2009, 22:57
if the units physically touch adter the flee, then wouldnt the fleeing unit be destroyed?

No, you only destroy a unit if you roll more to pursue than they do to flee

E.g if you run away from 20 sarus, through 19 saurus, you roll 3" to flee, they roll 2" to pursue, you would move the fleeing unit (on top of the saurus) and then remove the saurus and place them behind the fleeing unit, 1" away.

Dungeon_Lawyer
19-05-2009, 01:57
No, you only destroy a unit if you roll more to pursue than they do to flee


Thats not quite right: "If a victorious unit's pursuit roll is equal to or greater than the flee roll....the fleeing units are completely destroyed." pg 40 of the mini rulebook under determine pursuit distance, ties go to the victorious pursuit unit ,not the craven cowardly broken troops. I still havent found an answer to the situation I was in yesterday, as necrowrote-- must,,,, keep,,,, reading....

Dungeon_Lawyer
19-05-2009, 02:07
Found it! "units that break and flee from a multiple combat are allowed to move through any of the enemy units they were fighting (as in the case of a unit defeated by two enemies, one to its front and one to its rear)"


so they would not be destroyed, my best bet would be to restrain the saurus unit and pursue with skinks and hopefully catch them.

WLBjork
19-05-2009, 03:43
Depends on the circumstances.

If you want to destroy the unit, pursuing with both is the best option, as you get 2 chances of equaling or beating the enemy's roll.

I'd hate to think how many times I've come up shy 1" when pursing with one unit.

TheDarkDaff
19-05-2009, 09:24
Just to reinforce WLBjork's point. The broken unit is destroyed if the pursuing units rolls higher. It has absolutely nothing to do with where the units actually end up. If your Saraus pursued and the skinks restrained but the broken unit rolled 11 and the saraus rolled 12 then the broken unit is destroyed and the saraus bump into the skinks and stop.

Necromancy Black
19-05-2009, 09:51
Again, to be more correct the pursuers don't have to roll higher, they have to roll equal too or higher.

tarrasque
19-05-2009, 10:32
just wondering wen do you measure the distance the move before the turn or after they turn around.
i used to play it like this measure from the rear rank the distance an put it's front rank on that spot.
or do you measur the distance from where they are in btb?

Spirit
19-05-2009, 14:22
just wondering wen do you measure the distance the move before the turn or after they turn around.
i used to play it like this measure from the rear rank the distance an put it's front rank on that spot.
or do you measur the distance from where they are in btb?

Pivot the unit on the spot then move the distance rolled, i'm sure there is a picture of that in the rule book.

jaxom
19-05-2009, 15:36
What is important to remember here is that if you have a unit in the rear of the enemy when he breaks and your pursuit rolls lower than his flee then you will not catch him, no matter what. This can result in strange situations where the troops in the rear actually step forward and turn around as their pursuit because everyone rolled low.

The pursuers will always end 1" away from the fleeing troops. Even in the situation where the troops in the rear only miss by 1 (e.g. pursuing on a 6 when the enemy rolled a 7). If everyone turned in place and then moved, the troops in the rear would end up on top of the fleeing unit and since that is not allowed they stop 1" short of the enemy's rear rank on the pursue.

Urgat
19-05-2009, 15:44
Mmh, I don't have my brb, so, question: what if the two units pursue, and their pursuit move make them overlap?

Atrahasis
19-05-2009, 15:52
The highest US moves first, and will stop when it hits the other unit. Then the other unit moves.

jaxom
19-05-2009, 19:07
Where is it stated that the higher US unit moves first? We've always allowed the owning player to move the units in whatever order he chose in the absence of any other rule that we could point to. (Page number is sufficient, just looking for the rule since I have never noted the rule before.)

Edge
19-05-2009, 20:09
Units move at same time, but they move side by side from the point where the highest US troop was standing, so the low US troop could be ending up futher away from the enemy when they follow when they would if they stayed.

Dungeon_Lawyer
20-05-2009, 15:46
Units move at same time, but they move side by side from the point where the highest US troop was standing, so the low US troop could be ending up futher away from the enemy when they follow when they would if they stayed.

Now where is that in the rulebook? If so that sucks! this is what I found which seems to discount this:

pg43 move pursuing units: "Pursuing units pivot on the spot to face the chosen direction of pursuit and then move the full distance indicated by the dice in the same direction as the fleeing troops they are pursuing....move the pursuing units in order of decreasing unit strength "

The rulebook seems to suggest the the unit in the rear (the skinks) does not get moved to the point where the higest US trroops were standing....It pivots where it is and then pursues.


Depends on the circumstances.

If you want to destroy the unit, pursuing with both is the best option, as you get 2 chances of equaling or beating the enemy's roll.

I'd hate to think how many times I've come up shy 1" when pursing with one unit.


Just to reinforce WLBjork's point. The broken unit is destroyed if the pursuing units rolls higher. It has absolutely nothing to do with where the units actually end up. If your Saraus pursued and the skinks restrained but the broken unit rolled 11 and the saraus rolled 12 then the broken unit is destroyed and the saraus bump into the skinks and stop.

None of this seems right, Could you explain? The way I see/read it you almost always have to restrain the saurus, cause once they come into contact with the skinks they are forced to stop: pg 43 "Pursuers always move there full pursuit distance unless their pursuit takes them into fresh enemy...or freindly units, in which case they STOP immediately" How are the saurus going to run down a unit they can't catch? It doesnt matter what you rolled, as soon as you come into contact with friendlies you stop!

If your pursuit takes you into contact with fresh enemies you stop and fight them and never get the opportunity to wipe out the fleeing unit..so why would you in the case of bumping into your own troops?

The way I interpret it the only unit that has a chance to catch the fleeing unit is the skinks...

Atrahasis
20-05-2009, 15:48
It isn't in the rulebook:


move the pursuing units in order of decreasing unit strength
From BRB pp43

Nurgling Chieftain
20-05-2009, 16:39
How are the saurus going to run down a unit they can't catch? It doesnt matter what you rolled, as soon as you come into contact with friendlies you stop!

If your pursuit takes you into contact with fresh enemies you stop and fight them and never get the opportunity to wipe out the fleeing unit..so why would you in the case of bumping into your own troops?When you roll equal to or higher to pursue than the enemy does to flee, this means they fail to get away in the first place, rather than representing them fleeing and you catching them further on. The fleeing unit is removed immediately and does not move at all. Only then do you resolve the "pursuit" moves. How far the pursuit moves actually travel is not a factor - nor can they post-facto "catch" the fleeing unit if they reach its actual position without rolling higher in the first place (this is common when you flee through a unit to your rear).

Note that this is completely different from the case where you charge an enemy and they flee as a charge reaction. In that case, the charger has to actually reach the final position of the fleeing unit, and if the charger instead hits a different unit, it will stop there and not wipe out the fleeing unit even if it had enough movement left to potentially reach.

Nuada
20-05-2009, 16:41
How are the saurus going to run down a unit they can't catch? It doesnt matter what you rolled, as soon as you come into contact with friendlies you stop!

If your pursuit takes you into contact with fresh enemies you stop and fight them and never get the opportunity to wipe out the fleeing unit..so why would you in the case of bumping into your own troops?

The way I interpret it the only unit that has a chance to catch the fleeing unit is the skinks...


Odd as it sounds, you don't really have to catch them. You both roll your flee/pursue rolls first, if pursue roll is high enough you remove the fleeing unit then move your saurus unit.

Another example is if i have a unit of goblins with orcs directly behind them. If the goblins flee, technically they can never be caught and destroyed because they flee through the orcs and the attacking unit charges into the orcs. But it doesn't work like that unfortunatly, it's roll v roll, then remove unit (if caught), then move

Dungeon_Lawyer
20-05-2009, 17:05
When you roll equal to or higher to pursue than the enemy does to flee, this means they fail to get away in the first place, rather than representing them fleeing and you catching them further on. The fleeing unit is removed immediately and does not move at all. Only then do you resolve the "pursuit" moves. How far the pursuit moves actually travel is not a factor - nor can they post-facto "catch" the fleeing unit if they reach its actual position without rolling higher in the first place (this is common when you flee through a unit to your rear).

Note that this is completely different from the case where you charge an enemy and they flee as a charge reaction. In that case, the charger has to actually reach the final position of the fleeing unit, and if the charger instead hits a different unit, it will stop there and not wipe out the fleeing unit even if it had enough movement left to potentially reach.

:) Oh Ok-that makes it all sensible now-They fail to get away in the 1st place. Brilliant, thanks again.

Gork or Possibly Mork
21-05-2009, 20:22
Fleeing troops that have to move through non-fleeing enemy units with a US of 5 or more are immediately destroyed. pg. 41, Diagram 41.2

Lets say the unit in front has higher US making you flee from it right into the unit in the rear which if it has US 5 or more your unit is destroyed. Same thing if two enemy units with US 5 or more on each flank. You are pin cushioned between them with no place to go so you get destroyed.

I was under the impression if you break and flee in those situations your auto destroyed.

Nuada
21-05-2009, 20:27
pg. 41, Diagram 41.2.

Read the paragraph directly above that diagram, just below the pic of the old dwarf with 2 rats in his hand and a tattoo on his head (my money is on that skaven assassin)

it says ..."allowed to move through any of the enemy units they were fighting"

Gork or Possibly Mork
21-05-2009, 20:30
Found it! "units that break and flee from a multiple combat are allowed to move through any of the enemy units they were fighting (as in the case of a unit defeated by two enemies, one to its front and one to its rear)"


so they would not be destroyed, my best bet would be to restrain the saurus unit and pursue with skinks and hopefully catch them.

Ahh. Nevermind seems we have been playing it wrong all along. Last paragraph on pg. 41.

Gork or Possibly Mork
21-05-2009, 20:42
Read the paragraph directly above that diagram, just below the pic of the old dwarf with 2 rats in his hand and a tattoo on his head (my money is on that skaven assassin)

it says ..."allowed to move through any of the enemy units they were fighting"

Thanks Nuada. I saw Dungeon Lawyers post and looked it up and didn't see your post till now. I have to say that would have changed many games had we played it the correct way. Sometimes in my favour sometimes not so I guess it's not such a big deal. I will certainly change my tactics a bit thats for sure.