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waiyuren
18-05-2009, 23:32
Given my train of thought in my other post, this was bound to pop up...

Why do there seem to be no Librarians interred in Dreadnought chassis'?
Aside from the obvious "rules-break" of having an AV12-13 Psyker running around that is....

Infact, with only one or two exceptions, the Dreadnought is a fate reserved seemingly only for Marines who excell at battle, but who's names nobody seems to be able to remember....

PondaNagura
19-05-2009, 01:00
it's really just for rules purposes. why bother having to make a psychic test and then shoot it, when you can use battery-powered laser-weapons/solid munitions that don't run the risk of possessing you..?

now i'm not saying their aren't librarians in dreads, or that they couldn't, but would it take a bit more refinement on the part of the techmarines to tweak the materials used in the dreadnoughts body, from psycho-conductive materials to channel the powers, as well as wards/dampeners to protect the already fragile remains of the librarian.
dreadnoughts tend to be rather sleepy when they wake up, and probably have to concentrate some while in the heat of battle to ensure nobody is sneaking about to their rear or outflanking them...which is possible considering the blind spots those things must have.

then there' the other possibility of what wounds they've sustained to be interred and whether part of their brain or soul has been damaged, so that they might not be able to summon the same power as they could in their mortal life.

cankingboi
19-05-2009, 01:11
i think fluff wise its because marines in dreadnaughts get kinda bonkers and them being phsycic and all could become possesed and kill a bunch of stuff.

blameless
19-05-2009, 01:39
I was thinking about this earlier! classic! how come they only ever put in the lamo marines and not the super powerful special characters that have passed... Librarians even more so!

mrln68
19-05-2009, 02:02
Librarians are Psykers.

All Grey Knights are Psykers.

There are Grey Knight Dreads.

No reason for other Chapters to not stick their psykers in a dread either. Seems as though they don't maintain their psychic abilities when they get interred though.

starlight
19-05-2009, 02:39
In order to be interred in a Dreadnought (assuming one is available at the right time), you have to *almost* die heroically.

How many Librarians are there overall...? Very few...only a handful per Chapter.

From a group that is very small to begin with, how many Librarians are going to come *that* close without dying right when there happens to be a Dreadnought available? Given that most are neck deep in battlefield psychics, tempting the many and varied residents of the Warp, it would be surprising if more than a very small handful fell into the very narrow range of conditions to be interred...

How much of their psychic ability is going to survive their near death...? How much of it will be usable from within a standard Dreadnought? What sort of Dreadnought would be needed in order for them to use whatever powers may have survived and how many exist...?

Not saying it wouldn't happen...but it would be *incredibly* rare..

waiyuren
19-05-2009, 12:31
It might well be rare, as interment itself is very rare, but given the near indifinite "lifespan" of a dread and the 10,000 years of "history", you would think there would be at least one account.... Surely the rarity itself would warrant the mention! :)

Nero
19-05-2009, 12:34
There may very well by Librarian Dreadnoughts, but you can't use psychic powers from within a vehicle without firing ports. It's right there in the rulebook!

Chaos Undecided
19-05-2009, 13:15
Tell that to Elder Farseers

narlix
19-05-2009, 18:01
While not a Librarian, Forgeworld does make rules for a Chaplain in a Dreadnought.

Chaplains are more common than Librarians ( unless your a bloodraven ) and the Chaplain dread is rare. so I would Assume ( yes i know) than a few Libby's have gotten there very own walking coffin.

Bonzai
19-05-2009, 18:22
I think the other poster hit it on the head. Psker's are constantly fighting a mental battle against the warp. Given enough time, it is a battle most are destined to lose. The last thing a chapter wants is to inter a ticking time bomb into nearly indestructible battle armor, and hope for the best.

waiyuren
19-05-2009, 20:19
That there is probably the primary reason. I would imagine that being trapped in a limbo between life and death would put one at a much higher risk as, the soul is bound to be less anchored.

mattcollins1986
19-05-2009, 23:58
I think fluff wise, to be elevated to a dreadnought is one of the highest honours a chapter can bestow on a marine, so one that fought valiantly etc and the fact that Librarians arent really trusted by everyone else, so aren't going to bother.

Although Tigiruis will probably get one coz he's l33t. Sigh.

Lothlanathorian
20-05-2009, 02:49
Dreadnoughts don't just go to epic-almost-dieds, they also go to people whose knowledge the Chapter doesn't want to lose.

And, as was already point out in this thread (we'll see if people notice it the second time around) ALL Grey Knights are psykers and there are Grey Knight dreadnoughts. Ergo, there are psykers in dreadnoughts. However, Grey Knights also go through a WHOLE LOT of super training.

OH and Bjorn the Fell-Handed used to be a special character dreadnought and his lightning claw used to have its own special rules. Now it is just a damn 'Space Wolf dreadnought'.

starlight
20-05-2009, 03:00
Pretty sure we noticed it the first time... :p The question was never about pykers in Dreads, but *Librarians* in Dreads retaining their powers. :p

There's a difference between being *random Grey Knight with psychic abilities, but is basically a battery for the Justicar* and *Librarian who shapes and controls the energies of The Warp on the battlefield all by himself*... :p

Nonalyth
20-05-2009, 04:24
Putting a Librarian in a dread could be a very bad idea. With all the time they spend in statis, who knows what warp entities could get in there. Then one day, on the battlefield, *BAM*

You have a very angry daemon in an armored shell with massive fists and guns.

starlight
20-05-2009, 04:29
Anyone wanting to use a Librarian in a Dread facing me is welcome to do so...using the Chaos Dread rules. :p

LexxBomb
20-05-2009, 11:19
Putting a Librarian in a dread could be a very bad idea. With all the time they spend in statis, who knows what warp entities could get in there. Then one day, on the battlefield, *BAM*

You have a very angry daemon in an armored shell with massive fists and guns.

you raise an interesting point... we know now that the Inquisition uses stasis to torture people with psychic powers due to the refernce in the Inquisition war series of books - basicly the person is fully aware and awake during the stasis but unable to do anything - thus resulting in eventual madness and insanity. For this reason I dont think any dreadnaughts with a librarian onboard would be held in stasis.

Danjester
20-05-2009, 12:19
Didn't Storm of Iron feature a captured Librarian being interred in a dread sarcophagus by the Iron Warriors and being highly upset at the inability to use his powers? Been years since I read it so feel free to correct me if I'm horribly wrong.

NightrawenII
20-05-2009, 12:51
Storm of Iron have a Berzeker Dreadnought
Into Maelstorm set of short stories have Librarian in Dread sarcophagus. He cannot use any psychic power, because he was somewhat cut of from warp.