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Nu Fenix
19-05-2009, 19:17
Hi folks.

I am preparing for a 1500 point WOTR tournament this coming Bank Holiday Monday, in a store versus store event.
There will be three rounds, with each round using a different form of deployment, so all three are used by the end - I am not certain about ogjectives however. The tables will be 6'x4', with an unknown amount of terrain, although I expect it to contain approximately four pieces. For those who know the tables, it will be at Warhammer World, so use that as your basis of table style.
From the tales I have heard regarding the opposing store, they are trying to make as many powerful combinations as they can. So it seems for them, theme is not an issue. In contrast I want my army to be effective, yet also be solid.

Amdur - 165
The Betrayer - 125
Knight of Umbar - 125
6x Easterling Cohort, with Morgul Blades - 305
3x Easterling Cohort, with Pikes and Captain - 155
3x Serpent Guard, with Captain - 140
2x Half Troll, with Two-Handed Weapons - 200
3x Watcher Warband, with Bows - 120
Chariot King - 150
Total 1485

OR

Amdur - 165
The Betrayer - 125
The Knight of Umbar - 125
6x Easterling Cohort, with Morgul Blades - 305
3x Easterling Cohort, with Pikes and Captain - 155
3x Serpent Guard, with Captain - 140
2x Half Troll, with Two-Handed Weapons - 200
6x Morannon Orc, with Shield and Captain - 200
2x Watcher Warband, with Bows - 80
Total 1495

One of the critical parts of the army is the combination of Amdur + The Betrayer, with Morgul Blades against high Defence enemies, such as Dragons/Balrogs. I tested it on Saturday where I got roughly 12 attacks from Amdur's company due to high Fight, and ended up with 37 hits, wiping out the enemy.

The Knight of Umbar lives with the Half Trolls, to boost their Courage, give them access to Magic [Wings of Terror is my first casting] and also At the Double rolls.

I like infantry, as you can see, and not a big fan of shooting, although currently I have only been playing on 4'x4' tables, so I will have more space for deployment and tactical movement.

The Morannon Orcs are there to add bulk to the army for lower points, whilst having the advatage of Strength 4, at a risk of lower Courage. Plus, I like using allies to add more colour to my army.

The Chariot is there for some Monster power, and with the bulk of the infantry [especially Half Trolls] drawing attention, the chariot should be ignored, allowing it to get into position and ideally attack a flank. The bonus dice for charging should come in handy for dealing with most formations, as will the two-handed weapon. I made it a King, as the benefits for being a hero are very useful, as is the increased profile.

If other tweaks are advised, I will say now they must be done within the restraints of my current collection. The only things I can do to alter it, if I decide how I want to do it, is adding Thrydan Wolfsbane as a replacement for the Orc Captain - For the same points, I get an extra Courage, extra Resilience [if I get dueled], Epic Strike, Inspiring Leader Men [but only needed if other heroes die] and bonuses against Rohan.

My total collection is as follows:
Amdur
Suladan
5x Ringwraith
Khamul
Queen Beruthiel
6x Easterling Cohort
3x Easterling Cohort, Pikes
3x Captain/Dragon Knight, Banner
6x Easterling Archer
3x Easterling Kataphrakt, Captain
3x Serpent Guard, Captain
3x Watchers of Karna
2x Half Troll
2x Khandish Chariot King [One unbuilt]
3x Spectral Host
6x Morannon Orc, Shield, Captain
Shelob [Unbuilt]

I have chosen not to use my Kataphrakts, as currently I have been unimpressed with them, likely due to a combination of only own three companies and not using them correctly in my first couple of games.
The Spectral Host are a refreshing change to the army, but after several games, I think they have specific uses and enemies, and are not best in a tournament environment where they may be very useless. Also, I would only use them with an Epic Hero, and there are no spaces for another Epic, as three is sufficient.
Khamul isn't being used as my two choices above have been the most successful to me, and whilst I can rebound hits with him, I prefer to copy Fight to reduce their attacks against me and likely increase mine, or copy Strength for more successful attacks.
Beruthiel I have mainly for the sake of completion, as well as for use in smaller games, and more friendly ones when I don't want to use Ringwraiths.
The Shelob I'm not using because I have yet to built it or test it, and have no safe way to transport it currently, as I can only just fit a carry case into a backpack that I cycle to GW with. Shelob won't fit in the case, and trying to put it into a small box will likely break it or damage it, even with heavy pinning.

So, which list should I use, or should I use a third option which involves dropping companies/formations for options from my collection?

Thanks in advance :)

Emissary
19-05-2009, 22:41
Are you planning on running any of the formations as reserves? I have a feeling there isn't going to be that much maneuvering given how many formations you have. I ran a 1000 point mordor army today that was having issues maneuvering and they had less frontage then you did.

You may want to consider the dwimmerlaik rather then the knight of umbar. I've been using him more recently and he's really done well for me. In a game of might usage, he can really throw a wrench into your opponent's plans, especially if you combine it with black dart. Granted it's only a 4+, but he can systematically drain off might plus he's a good counter to the real threat to your little trick there: epic sacrifice.

I don't know if you've been seeing this ability pop up, but I have recently, especially in the cheaper heroes like the 50 point rohan guy. A 3+ save for your entire unit for 50 points, in addition to the free might all for the cost of a regular champion has meant that a lot more of the good players have been sticking that guy in. A 3+ save used at the right time will wreck your rampage+betrayer+morgal blades trick. A black dart plus the dwimmerlaik can counter it right out of there. Plus the dwimmerlaik can make a 3 might hero into a 0 might hero pretty quickly with one roll (I've lost track of how many times I've cast black dart, watched them will of iron it, have to pay 2 for the ability, then fail the will roll only to lose their last might.) It also helps to screw up stuff like counsellor and can make it so that opposing ringwraiths have 0 might.

Just something I've noticed off our meta that's been gaining ground. Around here the current thought is that the betrayer is the #1 ringwraith by a large margin, so a lot of thought on the good guy's part went into countering him. A 50 point 3+ save has been the most effective way to counter it outside of a simple duel. The dwimmerlaik has started to become an answer to that guy in turn. The other good thing about him is that he's a great psychological threat. People dismissed him as worthless the first time or two I used him, but after he drew off a lot of might at the wrong time, he really makes people second guess using might for anything that isn't absolutely necessary. A lot of times, they'd have 2-3 might and were worrying about using the might for something that wasn't absolutely necessary in case it would cost them their last might they'd need for an ability/charge later or leave them with 1 might that may be countered later as well.

I will say that I've been using him a lot on a fell beast, as you can fly over them and stay in their rear, casting spells, affecting their might rolls and denying movement and fall backs. but he still functions reasonably well in a unit where the fighting is worst.

Just a little thought and a sell. Otherwise the army looks solid. 100% agree that the chariot king is much better then a chariot. Being able to at the double, duel and heroic charge is easily worth the extra points. I usually bring the mordor troll chieftan over 2 trolls any day.

Nu Fenix
19-05-2009, 23:05
Thanks for the response Emissary.

I won't be able to know until I see the table and the amount of terrain, but it is quite probably I will have to on the first two games, and have to for the third game as it is Maelstrom of Battle, and so when and where I appear on the battlefield is very random.

The Dwimmerlaik is one I have thought about alot, but haven't yet tested due to it being an ally and not a normal choice. Burning the Might from heroes, especially emptying low Might heroes, is a tempting thing to do indeed. Since he would end up leading the Half Trolls, I can see Might being burnt near them anyway.

Deorwine is very nasty indeed! A very cheap way to get Epic Sacrifice, and for a tournament, a very strong choice for any Good army. He is someone I should keep an eye on, and try to kill off through Black Dart whenever the chance arises.

However, which of the two do you think would be more useful? Chariot or Morannon Orcs?

Emissary
20-05-2009, 00:03
Honestly, the morannon orcs are better. Unless the terrain really gets you, the morannon orcs will do a better job then a single chariot that isn't very hard to kill. It might also be worth it to scoot over Amdur and the Betrayer to them. S4>F4+C3 with your heroes involved.