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pip
19-05-2009, 19:20
Hello there, i would like to request some asistance in composing an empire army. It will be build around the Averland region of the empire with black and yellow uniforms and I would like it to be build mostly around missile troops, prefferably lots of handguns and canons.

Now, i would like to let you all know that i am very new to warhammer fantasy, i have barely read the rulebook and just picked up the armylist today, as such i dont really know what is good or bad in the game, what works and what is just for show. So i would like to have your aid in constructing such an army, and hopefully it will be an army that has a fighting chance aswell.

This is what i have writen down so far, bear in mind that nothing here is final, and everything is open for discussion. 500pts is jsut the start, have to begin somewhere right? ;)

Hero

Captain
fullplate
shield
(60)

Core

Handgunners *10
(80)

Handgunners *10
(80)

swordsman *12
(72)

Special

Outriders *5
(105)

Great cannon
(100)

Lands me currently at 497pts

Any help and pointers would be very welcome, thank you all in advance.

Crube
19-05-2009, 19:35
Firstly, can you please edit your post to remove individual points values.

Master engineer
Light armor
Repeater handgun
(82)

is fine...


Secondly, I'd personally exchange the Outriders for Pistoliers if you're set on some cavalry, but that it a personal preference, and source of heated debate.

Actually, I'd be looking at getting some sort of normal state troops in there, maybe at the expense of the 'riders, especially in this size of game. 133 point would get you 20 swordsmen...


Crube
The Warseer Inquisition

pip
19-05-2009, 19:53
I looked quite abit of time on the pistoliers versus outriders, to me it would seem like the repeater pistols and a balistic skill of 4 is better. But then again, i know very little to how the game plays and this list is mostly something im making to get started.

I suppose i could trim down on the marksman and his repeater handgun to lock up some points for more troops? Should be able to flesh out the numbers abit more.

PeG
19-05-2009, 20:04
Looks like a stand and shoot list so the outriders might be ok. the major problem with the list is that you have 0 combat potential. A couple of flyers or any other fast combat unit that can get into combat (especially fear or terror causing flyers) will kill everything in this list as soon as close combat begins. Also LD is usually a weak point for empire which can be partially adressed by bringing a hero with as high LD as possible. Engineers are often considered to be a waste of points and a hero slot.

My WE would even be able to shoot this list to death. If WE goes first I will get at least two turns of shooting before you can shoot at me (I will be out of range of everything except for the cannon that can kill a maximum of 1 model). If Empire goes first I will have one turn of shooting (probably at short range).

WE first turn of shooting would be, 1 Hail of doom 3D6 S4 arrows hitting on 2+ and 20 S3 (or S4 if short range) arrows hitting at 4+/3+. This would be sufficient for forcing panic tests in at least one maybe two empire units.

Cats Laughing
19-05-2009, 20:08
Here's what will probably happen in a typical 500pt game where your opponent isn't trying to be cheesy.

You'll shoot him up alot. Depending on his army, you may wipe out some small units, or cause panic in larger ones (depending on his leadership test dice rolls). Whatever he gets into combat with you will destroy your units in Hth. Depending on how lucky you were with your shooting, and how he set up is army, you'll have a chance at winning, but I think there's a higher likeliness that a more balanced or combat leaning opponent will win.

At this points level, I think the great cannon is overkill, and would be a good option for turning into some melee state troops, so you can try to hold the line once your opponent gets to you.

Swordsmen are the recommended state troop, due to the +1 save for having a hand weapon and shield and +1 WS and Init values over other state troops. This, iirc, gives them a 4+ save in combat, which is decent, and they still have a decent chance at killing similar opponents.

If you must keep the cannon, you can drop one handgunner unit and use your remaining points to get a decent swordsman unit.

If you picked up one of the old Warhammer main rules boxed set with the empire troops, don't be afraid to use the spearmen instead of the recommended swordsmen, they aren't that bad in friendly games.

Infact, in friendly games, almost everything in the Empire list is fair game (can be used without getting totally spanked and won't be considered over the top by your opponent), with the exception of the Steam Tank (and even that is probably ok if you take 1 at larger points value, certainly not at the 500pts level).

In anycase, having some sort of combat unit will give your army more balance and introduce you to another aspect of the game without you having to be on the losing side of that aspect at all times.

I can't remember the empire list completely, but you might be able drop a few handgunners of the unit without the marksman, call them a detachment and use those points saved plus your remaining points to get a small swordsman/spearman/halberdier parent unit for the 'demoted' handgunner detachment. At this points level you don't really need a big block of troops but you might want at least a small block of melee troops.

pip
19-05-2009, 20:22
Thanks for all the input so far, it's greatly appreciated, im just abit curious, just how would i counter such a thing as say a woodelf army? im not really after a super win at all cost list, but i do want the list to atleast stand a chance :)

PeG
19-05-2009, 20:30
A few armoured things would make your army more resilient and probably also give you a more fun game. Swordsmen are good for this purpose as well. WE have problems with knights, magic missiles etc. Also you can screen more valuble units with skirmishing archer detachments (skirmish gives -1 to hit). Detachments dont cause panic when they run and can also be used for redirecting etc.

Cats Laughing
19-05-2009, 20:55
Depends on what kind of WE list. At 500pts I don't think you can fit in a Treeman, so you don't really need a great cannon for it. Great cannons do ignore the minus modifiers to shooting that many WE players rely upon. But you're unlikely to hit more than 1 WE model a turn when firing a cannon...

A mortar is nice for catching units hiding in trees. As long as you can see one and target your mortar at the one you can see, then your opponent really can't complain if the template covers models you can't see. Str 3 is enough for the Elves in a WE army.

Your current army (with a mortar switched in for the great cannon, and a mage to cast spell) is probably a decent option. You can't really force close combat onto Wood Elves hiding in forests. Shooting at them is hard, but at least you should outnumber him. Magic tends to ignore the shooting modifiers he will hide behind. Even then, I think Wood Elves are one of the harder opponents for an Empire army(unless you play with no terrain, which I really wouldn't suggest).