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Dranthar
20-05-2009, 02:10
So I took the list below to a 2250 point tournament last weekend. It went fairly well but now I'm considering taking it to a 2000pt tournament in a fortnight. I have some ideas on what to drop, but I thought I might see what others have to say;


Vampire Lord
Extra Magic Level, Master of the Dark Arts, Infinite Hatred, Beguile, Sword of Kings, Crown of the Damned, Nightshroud, Black Periapt – 450

Vampire
Infinite Hatred, Walking Death, Sword of Might, Talisman of the Lycni, Flayed Hauberk – 200

Necromancer
Book of Arkhan, Invocation of Nehek, Vanhel’s Danse Macabre – 105

Necromancer
Power Stone, Invocation of Nehek, Vanhel’s Danse Macabre – 90

25 Skeleton Warriors
Full Command, War Banner – 245

25 Skeleton Warriors w. Spears
Full Command, Banner of Hellfire – 255

14 Crypt Ghouls
Ghast – 120

14 Crypt Ghouls
Ghast – 120

6 Dire Wolves - 48

6 Dire Wolves - 48

Corpse Cart w. Balefire – 100

9 Black Knights
Full Command, Royal Standard of Strigos – 291

Vargulf – 175

Total: 2,247pts

In case you're wondering, my MVP was undoubtedly the Vampire Hero, who often went out on his own to beat down a wide variety of support units (my favorite being 300pts of Cairn Wraiths).

So... any thoughts?

Spirit
20-05-2009, 17:35
A necromancer, 10 skeletons and the corpse cart. Also, only give the necromancer vanhells.

All your vampires can cast invocation and do it better than a necromancer, why pay to give him it? Stick with 2 dice on vanhells + the book every turn.

You could also try a smaller black knight unit with the banner of the undead legion. Your paying almost 150 points for a rank bonus, seems silly to me. The banner makes 6 of them outnumber most rank and file units, this combines with their brilliant maneuverability (if you don't put a vampire in there) and anhells makes them the best flanking unit bar none. US24 vs no ranks and they will auto break anything not ItP. This could save you a lot of points without losing many models.

Edit: Actually, switch one of the skeleton units for zombies. Everyone underestimates zombies and being able to summon d6+4 per casting makes them un killable by all but the biggest combat monsters, hit a unit with zombies then flank with dire wolves and you'll kill WAY more than the points of the 2 units.

Eulogy2
20-05-2009, 17:45
25 Skeleton Warriors
Full Command, War Banner – 245

25 Skeleton Warriors w. Spears
Full Command, Banner of Hellfire – 255


are your points totaled correctly here? it doesnt look right.

Boon
20-05-2009, 20:22
25 Skeletons = 200 Points (8 a piece)
Full Command = 20 Points (8 Champ, Standard - 4 Musician)
War Banner = 25 Points

25 Skeletons w/ Spears = 225 Points (+1 for spear)
Banner of Hellfire = 10 Points

All checks out.

Boon
20-05-2009, 20:35
I guess to answer your question, I would drop either the skeletons and beef up the ghouls, or the ghouls and a necromancer then retool a 2nd vampire to be able to raise up whatever type of squad you are left with.

Spirit
20-05-2009, 20:38
I guess to answer your question, I would drop either the skeletons and beef up the ghouls, or the ghouls and a necromancer then retool a 2nd vampire to be able to raise up whatever type of squad you are left with.

Both of those are dropping units then adding units, how would that help him to lose 250 points?

Crube
20-05-2009, 20:56
I'd certainly change one unit of Skellies for Zombies, then reduce the size of hte Knights...

Of course, this all depends on your style of play, and how your characters interact with the rest of the army...

Spirit
20-05-2009, 21:12
Oh yea, get a bsb on your hero vampire, for 25 points (he same cost as a warbanner) you get a warbanner and the ability to minimize losses in combat, well worth it!

Dranthar
21-05-2009, 01:10
Okay, so I'm pretty keen to drop the corpse cart, since I feel like it didn't really do much over the course of the last tournament.
The Black knights are at 9 models so that they can take some damage as they close in without losing their effectiveness. I can probably drop the size a little more though.
I'd prefer to keep the Strigos Standard over taking the banner of the undying legion. While the latter helps me break units, the former actually helps me win combat, which is alot more useful in my mind.

Necromancers are an underrated unit IMO. They may not be able to invoke as well as a properly equipped Vampire (BTW, note that my Vampires don't have the +1 to raise ability), but for the same cost as a 200pt, lvl 2 Vampire, you get a pair of necromancers for +1 dispel die, more magic items a guaranteed Van hels and the ability to spread that magic ability over more of your units. A single Vampire can only invoke units within 12" of him. But swapping him out for a pair of Necromancers increases that bubble to 24".

Zombies huh? Well I'm in two minds about Zombies. For one, I've found that zombies are a liability in combat. They are very easy to kill and they basically translate to easy combat resolution for your opponent when you have another unit engaged with them (eg. Dire wolves). But the ability to raise huge numbers of them is a great advantage, so they tend to make for a worthy (if mana-intensive) tar pit. At the moment I have the option of using Raise Dead to summon a block of zombies in the first two turns, which has worked well enough so far.

So, perhaps the best idea is...

Drop Corpse Cart -100 (2147)
Reduce Black Knights to 5 models w. Strigoi Std and Musician -112 (2035)
Drop 2 Dire Wolves -16 (2019)
Drop both Skeleton Champions -16 (2003)
Drop Banner of Hellfire -10 (1993)


The corpse cart has practically been dead weight and the Dire wolves have proven capable only of redirecting charges, so I've no qualms about losing those. The Banner of Hellfire is something I was using to deal with regenerators, but in my games against such units they either never came close or where dealt with in another way, so that's the next to go.
Dropping the size of the black knights was inevitable. They're alot leaner, but should still make for a worthwhile distraction and I'll have far less qualms about throwing them at smaller units now.

I still have almost the same unit count and nearly the same magic capacity, so it seems like a pretty good compromise. More importantly, my center is pretty much unchanged - it's just the support units that got cut, which is exactly what I wanted.

It does leave me with 7 pts though, which is an odd number for VCs.