PDA

View Full Version : Ogre mercs joined by characters



Visago
22-05-2009, 12:32
Hello Everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has run into rules issues with characters joining units of merc ogres? In our last local league I ran a unit of 3 man eaters in my Empire army and put a warrior priest in their unit. Over the course of the league some one found an old Dogs of War errata which stated that DoG units can't be joined by characters in the host army.

My main questions are: do the old DoG army rules apply to Ogres since they are a separate book. And if not, is there any thing stopping characters in the host army from joining the Ogre merc units.

I've not been able to find anything in either the Empire or Ogre Kingdoms army books which mentions characters joining DoG units.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Keller
22-05-2009, 12:42
Hmmm, here are my thoughts on it, but I don't have my books with me for reference.

If the OK book says that Ogre units may be hired as Dogs of War. That implies, to me, they are hired in exactly the same manner as Dogs of War units, and then would follow the same rules as all Dogs of War from the PDF files. Those being, hired as rare units (unless otherwise mentioned), cannot be joined by characters, etc.

If the OK book says they may be taken as Rare choices in other armies, then I would see no such restriction.

EvC
22-05-2009, 18:02
Not covered by rules, so discuss with gaming group. Recommendation: no.

sulla
23-05-2009, 02:42
Mercenary bodyguards for characters seem perfectly reasonable to me. I'd allow it.

Clegane
23-05-2009, 03:36
According to the Ogre Kingdoms army book, some types of ogres may be hired as 'Dogs of War' (it uses that specific phrase to identify the unit for these purposes) as a rare choice in armies that can take them.

Because it specifically says they are hired as Dogs of War, I would certainly say that all special rules for the 'Dogs of War' listings would apply to them as well.

You aren't hiring them as 'Ogre Mercenaries' or 'Maneater Bodyguards.' You're hiring them, word for word, as 'Dogs of War.'

Seems fairly clear to me.

T10
23-05-2009, 17:11
That is correct.

We would all love to take a mounted Warrior Priest with our Ogre Iron Guts so they get Hatred, but... No.

-T10

Kalandros
23-05-2009, 21:27
I cannot find anywhere in the Dogs of War PDF a rule saying the regiments of renown & other units hired, cannot be joined by characters.

Ganymede
23-05-2009, 21:39
Like the original poster said, the mentioned FAQ is old and no longer exists. Now the situation is a question with no answer.

sulla
23-05-2009, 22:47
That is correct.

We would all love to take a mounted Warrior Priest with our Ogre Iron Guts so they get Hatred, but... No.

-T10

Well, he can make his horse hate the enemy... why shouldn't he be able to influence Ogres...;)

Staurikosaurus
24-05-2009, 06:52
. . . and this thread would be great support for recommending people NOT use army books 2 editions out of date.

WLBjork
24-05-2009, 07:18
That's alright then.

The army book is only *one* edition out of date.

Condottiere
24-05-2009, 07:34
The BRB mentions that characters can join friendly units.

This can be interpreted to mean, in a multi-army side, that Teclis can join the Dwarven High King with his guard.

The reasonable solution to this is not to do it.

You could, of course, come up with some fluffy explanation why this happened, example mercenary bodyguards; it would be reasonable to assume that the character doesn't trust his own people and should have an appropriate leadership penalty when dealing with them.

rocdocta
24-05-2009, 08:11
dont forget tho, in the OK book it states that any ogre with dogs of war as a special rule is taken as a raree in a dogs of war army. helloooo 4 units of maneaters! i cant find on my PDF where it says that characters cant join the ogres in a DOW list.

Wintermute
24-05-2009, 10:47
Which pdf are you referring to?

Wintermute

Milgram
24-05-2009, 15:41
. . . and this thread would be great support for recommending people NOT use army books 2 editions out of date.

humm... there are no army books in use that are 2 editions out of date. but as for the ones of the last edition... DoW, TK, dwarfs, WE, OK, BoC, skaven, brets and the like, get lost and play with someone that likes your edition, wyrdos! *sigh*



it would be reasonable to assume that the character doesn't trust his own people and should have an appropriate leadership penalty when dealing with them.

this is not a thing about trust. even some imperial greatswords should be appreciative of ogres beeing a bit better at protecting someone than themselves. (ruleswise I would definitely object that, but fluffwise...)

Loq-Gor
24-05-2009, 19:10
Can the current Empire army even take Dogs of War? Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but as it applies to all the army books I have that have been released since the Orcs and Goblins current book I think it is pertinent. I mean I don't have the current Empire or High Elves books but the WoC, LM, DE, VC, O&G, and Daemons have all lost the entry allowing them to take Dogs of War.

Milgram
24-05-2009, 19:16
it is an old question... there is no entry needed for dogs of war, as the rules of the dogs of war allows them to be taken by empire etc.

it is like the ogre rhinox riders: the ogres do not have an entry for them, but they are allowed as the entry of the riders allows them to be taken by the ogres. it is a less tight solution... and it saves space in the army books, whilst it gives something to put into the white dwarf - I mean, they are in real need of content it seems.

Condottiere
24-05-2009, 19:49
Apparently not, since all mention of DoW has been eliminated; probably don't have sufficient space after promoting the current ranges and packing it with advertisements.

sulla
24-05-2009, 20:19
Apparently not, since all mention of DoW has been eliminated; probably don't have sufficient space after promoting the current ranges and packing it with advertisements.

They promote the current ranges too? That's one better than I thought they did...:D

Loq-Gor
24-05-2009, 21:35
it is an old question... there is no entry needed for dogs of war, as the rules of the dogs of war allows them to be taken by empire etc.

it is like the ogre rhinox riders: the ogres do not have an entry for them, but they are allowed as the entry of the riders allows them to be taken by the ogres. it is a less tight solution... and it saves space in the army books, whilst it gives something to put into the white dwarf - I mean, they are in real need of content it seems.

But the OK dogs of war reference specifically states that those ogre units which may be taken as DoW "...may be used as Dogs of War in any army list with the appropriate option...". Not that specifically listed armies can take them.

The actual DoW list, as outdated as it is, does give the rules for including specific units in specific armies but the only Ogres in that list are different from the Bulls in the OK list, let alone Ironguts, Leadbelchers, or Maneaters..

Visago
25-05-2009, 01:41
But the OK dogs of war reference specifically states that those ogre units which may be taken as DoW "...may be used as Dogs of War in any army list with the appropriate option...". Not that specifically listed armies can take them.

This is true, however it is later contradicted (I think) by the FAQ for OK. The last page has a question pertaining to a DoW Irongut unit taking a magic banner. Part of the question lists that the Ironguts are taken as DoW in an Ork and Goblin army. So while the O&G army book doesn't have the entry (I don't have the O&G book but going by a fellow poster's reference) they are mentioned as taking the DoW unit. Also, the OK FAQ on the GW site is current to the same release time as the O&G FAQ, which was Feb of 08. There hasn't been a new O&G book since then has there?

Loq-Gor
25-05-2009, 04:59
You are right that there has not been a new O&G book since 2008, however despite saying 2008 I don't believe that FAQ is actually that recent, but rather an updated format of the same FAQ. Meaning it came after the Ogres book but most likely before the O&G, so a time when all army books still had DoW references, except Brets obviously.

Also even if the FAQ is actually an update from 2008 the question references the O&G taking DoW, but does not actually involve that. I had to check which was the first book to stop including the DoW entry, I would guess that the FAQ writers would as well, and would have simply answered the question whether the general set up was legal or not. The FAQ does not contradict the rule only clarify a gray area. GW's definition of FAQ, on the Shrine of Knowledge page, states that FAQs are GW house rules, and that errata have the same level of authority as the books themselves (and strongly implies that FAQs dont). Thus I would say FAQs can not directly contradict the books, though I admit they do on occasion.

Masque
25-05-2009, 07:31
The Ogre Kingdoms FAQ is actually from Jan 23, 2007 according to the properties of the file. The latest O&G book is copywrite 2006.

Loq-Gor
25-05-2009, 17:03
The Ogre Kingdoms FAQ is actually from Jan 23, 2007 according to the properties of the file. The latest O&G book is copywrite 2006.

My mistake.