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Witch King of Angmar
22-05-2009, 18:54
Well i don't know how deadly this list will be but its what i currently own and i think rather fun, but feedback is always great.

Hero's-575
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Witch King on Felbeast
The Dwimiwerk On Felbeast

Troops-425
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4 Trays of Ghosts-320
Captian
Flag Carrier

7 Orc Trays-105

Nu Fenix
22-05-2009, 20:56
Unfortunately all Ringwraiths on Fellbeasts are allies for everyone but Mordor.

You can take The Witch King, Dwimmerlaik and Tainted as an Epic Hero normally, but the rule only allows them as an Epic Hero, not as a Legendary Formation.

So, currently your army is illegal because it doesn't have an Epic Hero or Legendary Formation from the Angmar list, and you have too many points spent on allies.

Sorry.

Witch King of Angmar
22-05-2009, 21:00
No i haven't, read the war of the ring Epic Hero Choice at the end of the Angmar area, most people miss where it says i have 3 ring wraiths as not allies but PART of my army.

Nu Fenix
22-05-2009, 21:15
I have, several times, and it states the following Epic Heroes.

Ringwraiths on Fellbeasts are not Epic Heroes, they are Legendary Formations, and as such that rule does not apply.

Witch King of Angmar
22-05-2009, 21:18
Yes...yes it does, i have asked all gw staff and veteran players....this list is legal unless over 15 people have mis-read the book.

Nu Fenix
22-05-2009, 21:23
Then that is something we will not agree on, as others on here would also disagree with you for the same reason as myself.

Just because other people do it, does not make it correct according to the rules. Make a question about it in the Rules section of the forum, so it won't detract from your army list if you think that would be best.

Emissary
26-05-2009, 13:09
I'm sorry that 15 people in your store misread the book, but the book is very clear. Winged Nagul are not ringwraiths. Winged Nazgul are only legendary formations. Ringwraiths are only Epic Heroes. The Angmar list specifically states that only the epic hero versions of the witch king, dwimmerlaik and tainted count as part of the list. The Angmar list does not state that the legendary formation versions count as part of the list.

Anyway, even if it was legal, your army is still really small and isn't good at all. It will get swamped by just about any army. Those 7 orc stands are defense 3 and have a command of 2. They'll get charged, lose and then never recover from being disordered without a lot of luck. The ghosts are will absorb the brunt of your opponent's standard attacks and with only 4 stands and a medium defense, they won't last that long. Winged Nazgul are nice if you can use them correctly, but can't stuffer much attention as they're only hard to kill. I've had enough trolls and winged nazgul one-shotted to understand just how easy hard to kill models are to actually kill.

Angelust
28-05-2009, 04:41
More boys, less toys!

But seriously, the nazgul on Fellbeast thing seems quite clear according to the rules, though if your group doesn't care or interprets it differently, than who cares? It's not going to imbalance anything.

However, as a list, you're going to suffer from most of the armies out there. As Emissary mentioned, hard to kill should be relabeled "easy to kill", and being a flyer won't help that much. A few companies of uruk-hai crossbows and heroic shoot can do all the damage necessary to kill that expensive beast.

The fellbeasts can be really good in larger games, where flight can really give a tactical edge, especially with the witch-king and dark marshall.

RulesJD
31-05-2009, 18:39
Have to chime in by agreeing with most posts above. The rulebook is quite clear about designating hero's, epic hero's and legendary formations.

As a future note, I'd be rather cautious about quoting employees at your local GW store. I have found on more than one occasion that local GW employees can often be quite incorrect. If the prevailing interpretation at a local store is based on those employees, it makes little difference that everyone agrees "in that store".

Having said that I'd be tempted to take only one wraith and more ghosts. Back them up with a Shade. Your ghosts will be attacking enemy courage rather than defense. Your shade will drop enemy strength to 2, protecting your ghosts and the wraith spells will be modifying enemy courage.

db2000
16-06-2009, 17:46
Hi All,

Appreciate what is being said here regarding Angmar legalities and interpretations and would suggest as much as page 211 refers to epic heroes in the Angmar list and as much as page 162 refers to winged nazgul as legendary formation, page 163 (as well as the spirit of the rule, forgive the pun) indicates in the "there are Nine" box (which is under the "Epic Heroe" section of all places "you may field each of the RINGWRAITHS (not shouting) only once, either as a Ringwraith, or a Winged Nazgul".

Because of this I have to rest with the camp and spirit of the rule which is that the Witch King, Dwimmerlaik and Tainted are still the same Ringwraiths whether they walk, ride a Fell Beast or a Horse.

My tuppence worth, in any event you will likely see a FAQ for this and several other double interpretations of War of the Ring.

Hey at the end of the day it's a fantastic ruleset, just needs players to be fair and enjoy their game ;)

DB2000

KaldCB
16-06-2009, 21:41
I think you have way to little troops!
My 1000 point army have 150 models and to top that almost everyone of mine have better defence then yours, i think you have gone over the top with the toys. a common understanding (if i can use that word) is that your army should be at around 25-30% heroes/upgrades.

Yours is at a wopping 66%!

I think only using one fellbeast would be better. not only do your army become legal as the rule is written. those points can be used to beef up more troops, and maybe some captains and task masters for them. as courage will be a problem.

What i would suggest.

The Dwimiwerk On Felbeast 250

4 Trays of Ghosts-320
Captian
Flag Carrier.

6 trays orcs 195
shields.
taskmaster
captain.

6 trays orcs 195
shields.
taskmaster
captain.

2 trays orks 40
Bows

That is 1000 point.
A much better list imo. but you are free to do what you will :)

Nu Fenix
17-06-2009, 01:23
Where is the Epic Hero or Legendary Formation from the main list needed to make the army legal?
You buy 1 Epic or Legend and 1 Common from the main list before buying everything else.

KaldCB
17-06-2009, 06:25
Could you please give me a page number or maybe a quote to where the rule that your epic hero/legendary formation have to come from your main list?

As i cant seem to find it....

Nu Fenix
17-06-2009, 14:24
Page 85 under Choose a Leader.

You have to choose a leader, followed by choosing your first common formation [The First Formation, p86], before you are allowed to buy allies [The Decree of Allies, p86].

As such, you can't have a leader from an allied army, as you haven't finished the first two previous steps.

KaldCB
17-06-2009, 18:07
i think that is a little harsh.

And saying that you cant use allies because chosing an leader is listede before the decree of allies is a little wrong. putting the decree of allies first in the army making would just look weird.

and under the decree of allies is stands, and i quote:


It's important to note that the decree of rarity and the decree of legends apply across the whole army, not across each segment of the army choses from diffrent factions. As long as you never have more rare formations then common formations it does not matter wheter they are allied formations or troops chosen from your main faction.

Nu Fenix
17-06-2009, 18:13
Your leader is not under the Decree of Rarity, nor Decree of Legends however. Your leader MUST come your main list, there is nothing harsh about this in my opinion. Otherwise, why not make what you wanted as allies as your main list?

Having a leader from the Angmar list and then spending you ally allowance on The Tainted on Fellbeast would be fine, but requires a leader before The Tainted on FB could be purchased.

KaldCB
17-06-2009, 21:36
maybe you are right, i just assumed the only thing to think off where these:
at least one epic hero/legendary formation.
No more rare formations then common.
up to 25% of your army may be allies.

But it does not matter, as it's not my list. and my gondor list have no allies :)