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samick
22-05-2009, 20:51
Okay, so the question is; can savage orc boy big 'uns have a magic banner?

I am in favor of them having the ability to do so. It does not state directly under their stats that they have the right to, but just above them, the regular orc boyz have a passage saying, "A unit of Big 'uns may carry a Magic Standard worth up to 50 pts." This would presumably include the savage boyz as they have the ability to be upgraded to big 'uns. I feel that they did not re-include this clarification as to prevent repetition.

What are your thoughts on the matter as I have been receiving convincing arguments from both sides?

rtunian
22-05-2009, 20:59
on p.54 in the o&g army book it does indeed say that savage orc boar boyz can carry a magic standard up to 50 points. it also says on p.52 under the very first description of biguns that biguns may take a magic standard up to 50 points.

so if savage boar boyz can take it, and biguns can take it, then savage boar boy biguns can take it

theunwantedbeing
22-05-2009, 21:14
Orc boy Big'uns are allowed a magical banner.
Why?
Because it says so in their unit entry.

Savage Orc boy Big'uns are not allowed a magical banner.
Why?
Because it doesnt say they can in their unit entry.

Simple really.
You have to remember that this book is 100% unrelated to the previous orc book, despite similar names troops and rules they are not interchangable at all and must be treated as entirely seperate entities.
This does lead to some confusion when remembering rules though.

Nurgling Chieftain
22-05-2009, 21:17
No, you don't get to take options from another unit entry.

Malorian
22-05-2009, 21:21
No, you don't get to take options from another unit entry.

Really? Dang it... and here I was getting all excited about putting snotlings on boars and giving them a magic banner...

*Shrugs and walks away*

:p

Harwammer
22-05-2009, 21:25
Only black orcs, orc boy big unz, orc boar boyz (includign big unz) and savage orc boar boyz (including big unz) may take magic banners.

For whatever reason savage orc big unz do not have the option for a magic banner. Be it poor production or an attempt at balance (6 wide frenzied spears with nogg's banner would give 3*6*2=36 ws/str 4 attacks. Back when OnG was released such hitting power was rather unprecedented for a core unit*.

*Skaven and BoC could pump out vast numbers of Str 3 attacks using death frenzy spam or luxurious torment (30 attacks for a stationary 6 wide herd), but neither of these possible are without risk/support.

rtunian
22-05-2009, 21:56
man you guys have got to be kidding me...
is it faq'd this way?

seems like there was big deal was to cut corners and save space every which way possible, which is why it makes sense that redundant explanations would be pruned... why does it need to tell you over and over that biguns can take a standard? it can just tell you once, and then the only relevant info needed for future items is the price of the upgrade.

skuller
22-05-2009, 22:43
Nope unfortunatelly your SOBU cannot take magical banners

Nurgling Chieftain
22-05-2009, 22:54
...it makes sense that redundant explanations would be pruned...There's a great deal of evidence that such pruning did not, in fact, occur. The idea that they'd prune it from a single entry is frankly kind of ridiculous on the face of it. You're just wishful thinking.

rtunian
22-05-2009, 23:51
how does it make sense that the unit can use a banner, but an upgraded version of the same unit cannot? it doesn't say "one unit may carry a magic banner OR one unit may be upgraded to biguns" it says "one unit may carry a magic banner" and it also says "one unit may be upgraded to biguns". i see no reason why these would be mutually exclusive

that's like arguing that a unit can either take a champion, or a musician, or equip shields (which is crazy). they are on different lines, they are different options. biguns shouldn't even be considered in the same breath as magic banner because for boar boyz and savage boar boyz they are separate options

samick
23-05-2009, 00:15
rtunian, we are not arguing for the right of savage orc boar boy big 'uns to take a magic standard, simply foot slogging savage orc boy big 'uns. And it saddens me deeply that the general consensus is that I am not allowed to take a magic standard for my boyz, as they were the main force of my list for an upcomming tourny. If we agree that they cannot use a standard, is there any suggestions on how to tweak my list to take the focus away from the savage boyz?

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200737

Nurgling Chieftain
23-05-2009, 00:16
Frankly, rtunian, I have no idea what on Earth you're talking about in that post. I certainly don't see any relevance between your rant and Savage Ork infantry not having any option for Magic Banners.

rtunian
23-05-2009, 01:19
reading fail? :p doh!

Storak
23-05-2009, 09:00
the orc book is a mess.

savage big uns and the lack of magic banners, is really nice. just the same for giant spiders not causing fear (eh???).

but just look at the banner selection (the gobbo banners) and then search for a unit that can take them (hint: none) and you get a good impression of the general state of our army book.

eyeolas
23-05-2009, 13:50
The entire point of goblin banners is that you take a bsb. I'd be prety happy if one of my units of rank and file goblins could get poisoned attacks for 50 pts without the need to use a hero slot or my army's bsb

but to the OP, alas no, they can't (but tbh, nog's banner would be a little too good on spear totting savages, as Harwammer's post shows)