PDA

View Full Version : 1000 Points Fallen Realms, Advice Appreciated



Sabotage!
22-05-2009, 22:35
Hello All, I'm a 40k veteran of about 10 years, and have been playing fantasy off and on for most of that time (though I'm not a huge fan of the rule set and I believe WOTR will replace it completely if it plays like I think it will). Recently three of my buddies in my play group and myself picked up the WOTR book and really enjoyed the rules, and as big LOTR fans we decided to make 1000 point armies to test the game out. So that being said, this is my very first army list, and I have not played any games of WOTR yet. I'm trying to make a list that is fun and fluffy list that is somewhat competitive. Any advice is very much appreciated and thank you for your time!

Easterling Cohort x 5 at 360
-Banner
-Khamul
-Captain (Not sure if I should use the Dragon Knight to save points and for the extra fight, as I'm not concerned about the LD difference with Khamul, I just felt Khamul's single might point is not enough and that the additional point from the captain would make more of a difference than the extra fight for the formation).

Easterling Cohort x4 at 335
- Pikes
- Dark Marshal
- Dragon Knight (To me the higher Fight seemed really useful on Pikes, but not sure whether the Captain would be better)
- Banner (not sure if this is useful with Pikes as I don't plan on charging often with them).

Easterling Kataphrakts x3 at 175
- Dragon Knight (This is one of my biggest contest points, the extra dice seem a huge boon to Calvary who essentially have to win the first fight due to their frailty, but is the extra might worth it?)
-Banner (seems like a must in a cav unit)

Haradrim Archers x 2 at 60

Haradrim Archers x 2 at 60

total = 990

For 1500 I plan on expanding by adding more Easterlings, Amdur, and Some Morannon Orcs and Mordor Trolls (for a siege of Minas Tirith style force)

Comments, Criticisms and questions are all welcome!

Thank you much!

Nu Fenix
22-05-2009, 22:50
It is nice to see another Fallen Realm player, as there is always room for more players of my favourite army.

Now, the core of your army is very solid, however there are some things I would change.

The banners aren't cost effective on your infantry. Unless you are denying the charge from cavalry [and they should be positioning themself out of range for that], then getting the charge holds no great benefit for you. For the price you pay you can get another company for any of your formations, or even have a Dragon Knight [though that is excessive IMO].
The re-roll from charging can be mitigated by knowing how far the enemy are by always being allowed to pre-measure, and using Might from a hero in the formation if critical.
The re-roll on the Panic chart I have found to be of little use, as rolling a 1 only matters if you are below 50%, otherwise you are trying to get a 6 with a re-roll. However it also implies you lost combat, and I am more optimistic then that.

When I started, I picked Dragon Knights over Captains, as them being cheaper and better Fight seemed better then the extra Courage and Might, especially since Epic Heroes could be used for that instead. However, since the boosted Fight only applies to the command company, it isn't actually that many extra attacks. There is never enough Might in this game, so get as much as you can!

What made you pick The Dark Marshal? One of his main benefits is for making a Black Numenorean army as he can make them Common instead of Rare. His effect to grant an entire formation his Fight just isn't as potent when compared to The Knight of Umbar, who copies the Fight of Strength of an enemy Hero or Monster, and generally there is always one of the two you can copy nearby.

Hopefully that gives you some food for thought, and good luck with it once you do start using it!

Sabotage!
23-05-2009, 06:49
Thanks for the reply Nu Fenix, it's always nice to see more Easterling fans.

You make a good point about the banners on the infantry, I'll probably drop them and add in another company of Cohort and one of Pikemen. I think I'm just in IG mode where I feel I need anything and everything to not let my men run off the board (especially with the 4ed book :) ).

You make a good point on the captains and I think I'll stick with them instead of Dragon Knights for the most part, though I may keep one in the pikes as I don't see them being a formation that eats a lot of might (being mostly defensive).

I had a really hard time picking my second hero for this army, and it actually came down to the Knight of Umbar or the Black Marshall. I think it also comes from IG syndrome and the Inspiring leader looked really good to make sure I kept my Calvary and Archers around, but being able to take someone's strength is really good. I may have to switch them around.

Nu Fenix
23-05-2009, 19:16
Well, as your army progresses in size, if you use either Amdur or Suladan, then you get Inspiring Leader Men, on top of their useful abilities, which means The Dark Marshal will do less for you in terms of preventing your troops from failing Courage checks.

With the Ringwraiths, I would advise trying each of them out to see how they do for you, as each one has a different appeal.

After you have had a game or two, it will help you get a better idea for your army, what suits you, and where to go with it. I do think you will find them different to your IG though ;)

Emissary
26-05-2009, 14:25
Another ringwraith you probably want to consider is the betrayer. I honestly feel he's the best of the 9. Being able to reroll every one of your attacks out of a unit is fantastic. If the unit is large enough to stay around for awhile, his ability is great. One problem with Khamul on your easterling guys is that they won't be wounded too often due to their D5(7) hence you'll get less of his ability rolls.

I also don't think that pikes have to be that defensive. Your pike unit only loses its charge bonus but gains a +1 fight which can even itself out. I do think it's great for countercharges if you do that. If you charge unit A and then unit B wishes to charge (especially if they're cav) they lose a bit trying to countercharge.

I agree on the might. It's so important, especially late game when people have blown through their characters with it. It can turn a fight or the battle if you have a few left late.

I'd also bump your kataphrakts up to 6 stands if possible. You can get 4-5 into direct combat rather easily depending on your opponent's formation setup. Also, having those extra stands helps to absorb casualties.

Sabotage!
28-05-2009, 08:50
That's a good point on the pikes Emissary, and one that is well taken. after having reread the rules today, I realize that pikes don't have to be super defensive.

I never really considered Khamul's unit not being able to utilize his ability due to the fact they are pretty hard to wound. Maybe relocating him would be a better idea?

The Betrayer is also a fantastic choice, and once I get playing (my friends and I almost have all of our models, and while mostly not painted, they are mostly assembled), I will have to give him a shot.

As for the Kataphrakts I know I'll have at least enough for four stands, though if I do bump up to six, what should I take out in their place? One of the units of Haradrim archers?

Also if I am to expand to 1500 points, what type of units should I look at?
Units I know I want to add are:
Amdur (should I replace a wraith with him to leave more point for common and rare formations?)

Units I have been toying around with the idea of:
Haradrim (for a cheap fodder type unit that I can use to hit flanks while the Easterlings stall units)
Mordor Trolls (I am definitely lacking the monster element of my army)
Corsair Alabasters (For some hard hitting long range power)
Black Numenoreans/ Morgul Knights (High defense and terror / lances and terror)
Morannon Orcs (High Strength an defense for a low point cost)

Thanks for the advice, and everything helps this newbie out!

Emissary
28-05-2009, 12:44
On the dragon knights, they're actually really good for dueling purposes. With a fight of 7 they should be up on almost everyone. They can add a lot of extra wounds or kill off some might pretty easily. Plus they're good defense against casters if you can get to them.

For your army above, I'd drop the banners on the infantry, drop the dark marshal and bump the kataphrakts up to 6 stands. I really don't think that 2 epic heroes is necessary in 1,000 points. More dudes is more important then more heroes.

For 1,500 points, Amdur is a solid choice for a second hero. I also really like the half-trolls. 2 stands of them with great weapons is fantastic, especially with Amdur or the Betrayer leading them. The arbelestors are pretty good as well. Both the morgul knights and haradrim raiders are good with their lances, though the knights are obviously better with the extra armor and terror, though at the cost of more points and money. The Haradrim foot troops aren't bad. You'll need a few units of infantry to absorb hits and to take objectives. Lastly, I don't think you need the trolls, they're pretty easy to kill. I would take a good look at the Khandish King Chariots. They good a good amount of attacks on the charge, they have great weapons which helps for wounding purposes and having 2 might allows you to at the double! and do heroic actions.

I'm also going to put my standard 1,500 point Mordor army up here so you can compare with what I'd bring to hopefully give you some ideas:

Gothmog
Khamul or the Betrayer
Amdur (I've converted a Mouth of Sauron to be a Black Numenorean Hero for this character)
9 Mordor Orcs with Great Weapons and Captain (Khamul or Betrayer)
6 Morannon Orcs with Shields (Gothmog)
3 Mordor Orcs with Bows
3 Orc Trackers
3 Black Guard of Barad-dur with Captain (Amdur)
3 Mordor Siege Bow Batteries
4 Morgul Knights with Knight Commander
Curse of Morgoth Fate

About half the time I'll drop the ringwraith and Amdur for the Dwimmerlaik on an Fell Beast. Otherwise, I'm trying to have several infantry units with a flexible force.

Sabotage!
30-05-2009, 21:46
After some consideration and taking your advice Emissary I'm gravitating towards fixing my 1000 point up to something like this:

Easterling Cohort x6 (355)
-Captain
-Khamul

Easterling Cohort x5 (225)
-Pikes
-Captain

Kataphrakts x6 (295)
-Banner
-Captain

Haradrim Archers x2 (60)

Haradrim Archers x 2 (60)

Which ends up at 995

For expanding to 1500 I know I'm going to add Amdur and after looking it The Khandish King Chariot entry, I'm going to have to agree with Emissary and toss one in, the might is really nice. Which leaves about 190 points left and I'm debating what to fill those points in, At this point I'm considering some infantry (haradrim or morannon orcs), possibly siege bows to have some artillery, though I feel I'm not really utilizing rare units in this list. Any suggests towards those 190 points folks?

Thanks for all your help Nu Fenix and Emissary, it is much appreciated!

Emissary
30-05-2009, 22:53
Overall the list looks good. The last 190 points is real easy: half trolls. 2 companies is 190 points. I'd prefer them to have great weapons but we would need to find another 10 points. Amdur should also be with them.

Nu Fenix
31-05-2009, 17:03
Possibly turing a Captain into a Dragon Knight for the Fight 7 would be an appropriate way to get the points to give Half Trolls two-handed weapons. Possibly the Captain with Khamul, since he is making them Courage 5 already, so making tem Fight 7 means he is intimidating in a duel, and gives the command company a greater boost.

I used them with Amdur recently, got 11 attacks with them, and due to rolling a 6 on Beserk were hitting on a 2+, and even though I wiped the enemy out we wanted to see the total potential of them, and ended on 50 hits exactly. There was only two full companies fighting them.

Good luck with the army, and let us know how you do with them.

Jobu
01-06-2009, 21:29
Quick question, do you find the mordor orc bowman effective? I have yet to find them that great and have replaced all my shooty orcs with cav (warg riders) and siege bows (which are just great with 48" range). Of the games I have played so far my experience is: if you don't have 4+ companies of orc shooty don't bother. The trackers are a special case with the ambush rule and better shoot value, but at 30pts/company you think you might be better off with another siege bow and cav? ...ahhh, that puts you over the SB limit then.....huh......well, if you did not want shooty what would you fill those 90 points with?



On the dragon knights, they're actually really good for dueling purposes. With a fight of 7 they should be up on almost everyone. They can add a lot of extra wounds or kill off some might pretty easily. Plus they're good defense against casters if you can get to them.

For your army above, I'd drop the banners on the infantry, drop the dark marshal and bump the kataphrakts up to 6 stands. I really don't think that 2 epic heroes is necessary in 1,000 points. More dudes is more important then more heroes.

For 1,500 points, Amdur is a solid choice for a second hero. I also really like the half-trolls. 2 stands of them with great weapons is fantastic, especially with Amdur or the Betrayer leading them. The arbelestors are pretty good as well. Both the morgul knights and haradrim raiders are good with their lances, though the knights are obviously better with the extra armor and terror, though at the cost of more points and money. The Haradrim foot troops aren't bad. You'll need a few units of infantry to absorb hits and to take objectives. Lastly, I don't think you need the trolls, they're pretty easy to kill. I would take a good look at the Khandish King Chariots. They good a good amount of attacks on the charge, they have great weapons which helps for wounding purposes and having 2 might allows you to at the double! and do heroic actions.

I'm also going to put my standard 1,500 point Mordor army up here so you can compare with what I'd bring to hopefully give you some ideas:

Gothmog
Khamul or the Betrayer
Amdur (I've converted a Mouth of Sauron to be a Black Numenorean Hero for this character)
9 Mordor Orcs with Great Weapons and Captain (Khamul or Betrayer)
6 Morannon Orcs with Shields (Gothmog)
3 Mordor Orcs with Bows
3 Orc Trackers
3 Black Guard of Barad-dur with Captain (Amdur)
3 Mordor Siege Bow Batteries
4 Morgul Knights with Knight Commander
Curse of Morgoth Fate

About half the time I'll drop the ringwraith and Amdur for the Dwimmerlaik on an Fell Beast. Otherwise, I'm trying to have several infantry units with a flexible force.

Emissary
01-06-2009, 22:31
It's only 60 points for the three companies of them. They're extremely cheap and provide another common formation should I need them. The three of them together are about the cost of 1 siege bow battery and usually function similarly in terms of output. The bow batteries do better because you can get three of them in one volley and take up less space on the field, but 1 battery vs 3 companies is pretty similar. They've also done well for me taking an objective that starts nearby and then hiding in a woods. They also function well without a leader so it keeps the costs even further down. Last game they took an objective and camped in a center terrain feature. They then shot dead a khandish king chariot over 2 turns. This wasn't the first time they've done well. Overall, my expectations are always low and they always manage to outdo them or I haven't regretted spending the measly 60 points on them.