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View Full Version : Where are the two wound guys?



ArghaBlargh
23-05-2009, 14:58
That's something I miss in Warhammer, non-character troops with 2 wounds. Back in 5th ed. we had Beastmen with 2 wounds (not that I want that back) but right now the only 2 wounds guys around are support units like Fell Bats and Flesh Hounds. Couldn't there be something in between orcs and trolls, gor and minotaurs, saurus and kroxigor, dryads and tree kin? Some 7 or 8 feet tall semi-monstrous things?

Any thoughts on this?

Paz
23-05-2009, 15:27
Bloodcrushers of Khorne.

Ultimate Life Form
23-05-2009, 15:32
This goes totally against GW's current strategy. Didn't you know that all big things have to be M6, WS3, T4, W3 A3, S5/6 so no one will ever notice a difference anymore? Ask the Kroxies, they got hit hard...

And the small game is just that, small. If you give a Skink Warrior two wounds, it is a Skink Chief. In effect. So no tinkering here.

brynolf
23-05-2009, 15:33
I'm pretty content with not having to keep track of wounds more than absolutely necessary.

ArghaBlargh
23-05-2009, 15:37
Bloodcrushers of Khorne.
Yeah, and there's flamers too I guess, but they're still support guys. Bloodcrushers are at least combat troops.

But I'd really like to see some kind of ranked infantry with 2 wounds. Granted the troops would be expensive so the units wouldn't be big, but it would be original and interesting. It would certainly have more character than some of the more identical and bland units GW's invented.

Maybe Bestigors would be cool with having 2 wounds? They're going to remake the Beast book eventually, though I guess BoC aren't really a team lacking in characterful units.

Edit: Or Rat Ogres? That would make them far cheaper so you could have more of them, and it would separate them more from treekin, krox, trolls, ogres and the rest of those guys.

theunwantedbeing
23-05-2009, 15:40
There's been an increase in 2 wound cavalry type models.
Similarly wraiths and flamers of tzeentch are the only 20/25mm base models with 2 wounds that arent character's I can think of.

Ranked multi-wound models are unlikely to see a comeback though.
The problems with flesh hounds, flamers and wraiths..all the types of units that are considered overpowered.
Even pegasus knights were complained at a lot and they had 2 wounds.

2 wounds per model just causes too many issues when on smallish/narrow bases.
Less of an isse on wider bases like bloodcrushers and ogres though.

ArghaBlargh
23-05-2009, 15:48
Come to think of it, Phoenix Guard are essentially two wounds because of their 4+ ward save.

TeddyC
23-05-2009, 16:21
Ogre Kingdoms?

dont all their troops have MW (except Gnoblars)

T10
23-05-2009, 16:58
Any thoughts on this?

You just listed a number of models that do indeed have 2 wounds on the profile.

The thing is that 1 wound is very suitable for 20/25 mm base infantry, while 3 wounds is very suitable for 40 mm base infantry. Their bases are essentially four (2 x 2) single-wound infantry models. Making them twice (W 2, A 2) as effective as single-wound infantry (their frontage is approximately two single-wound infantry models) is just too ineffective, and making them four times effective (W 4, A 4) is too much.

So there's a leap up to 3 wounds that has little to do with realism and more to do with what plays well.

As a result, models with 2 wounds are typically just "better" than a single-wound counterpart (Fleshound vs. Warhound, Fell Bat vs. Harpy) as are 4 wound models (Dragon Ogre vs. Ogre).

-T10

Spirit
23-05-2009, 17:40
Come to think of it, Phoenix Guard are essentially two wounds because of their 4+ ward save.

Essentially 1.5 wounds, not 2.

T10
23-05-2009, 17:59
Essentially 2 wounds, not 1.5.

-T10

Atrahasis
23-05-2009, 18:44
2 wounds is very different to a 4+ ward.

Think about combat resolution, killing blow, rank bonus, etc etc etc.

Spirit
23-05-2009, 19:50
Essentially 2 wounds, not 1.5.

-T10

A 4+ ward will only save 50% of the time

10 phoenix guard + 50% = 15 wounds before unit dies.

How is it essentially 2? But yes Atrahasis, i agree.

PeG
23-05-2009, 19:55
there are some more depending on how you define your "guy" does for example treekin fit your criteria?

Griefbringer
23-05-2009, 19:58
Spirit, you might really want to work a bit on your maths here.

Essentially, the 4+ save on average doubles the amount of wounding hits that a unit can take before it is destroyed.

T10
23-05-2009, 20:00
A 4+ ward will only save 50% of the time

10 phoenix guard + 50% = 15 wounds before unit dies.

How is it essentially 2? But yes Atrahasis, i agree.

Those that save get to save again.

So it's 1 + 0.5 + 0.25 + 0.125 + 0.0625 + 0.03125 + ...

Add 'em all up to infinity and you get 2. Almost.

-T10

Spirit
23-05-2009, 20:07
Ah yes i see that makes sense.

Urgat
23-05-2009, 20:30
I can see blorcs having two wounds. Actually, it's about the only thing I see them having that'd make them different.

Condottiere
23-05-2009, 20:34
Giving them a slightly larger base, 30mmx30mm, would be a good indication that that model has two wounds.

EvC
23-05-2009, 22:48
GW doesn't seem to be able to make decent 2-wound troops, they're usually far too good (Most of them), or have a bizarre niche that doesn't really work very well (Bloodcrushers). Agree that Black Orcs with 2 wounds, or similar nasties like that would be a great step. Rather than the usual 40K style troops getting the treatment.

sulla
23-05-2009, 22:52
That's something I miss in Warhammer, non-character troops with 2 wounds. Back in 5th ed. we had Beastmen with 2 wounds (not that I want that back) but right now the only 2 wounds guys around are support units like Fell Bats and Flesh Hounds. Couldn't there be something in between orcs and trolls, gor and minotaurs, saurus and kroxigor, dryads and tree kin? Some 7 or 8 feet tall semi-monstrous things?

Any thoughts on this?

I think it would be a good way to make certain troop types that are elite infantry but won't have access to awesome armour and good weapon skill more viable in the current game. Bestigors, black orcs and (dare I say it,) bull centaurs are the types that would suit it IMO.

ArghaBlargh
24-05-2009, 08:09
I think it would be a good way to make certain troop types that are elite infantry but won't have access to awesome armour and good weapon skill more viable in the current game. Bestigors, black orcs and (dare I say it,) bull centaurs are the types that would suit it IMO.
Great ideas... especially bull centaurs! :D

Ikhoornix
25-05-2009, 14:59
Don't skaven weaponteams and Jezz have 2 wounds?

Atrahasis
25-05-2009, 15:04
No .