PDA

View Full Version : Chaos Daemon Army, simpler Tyranid design?



-IronWarrior-
25-05-2009, 14:19
Seems to be the same exact strategy Tyranid's use.

Run across the board and zerg the opponents army. Only issue is the Daemon Army seems to be a lot easier to own with heavy firepower.

Anyone have a Daemon Army? How's it fair?

Mannimarco
25-05-2009, 15:08
theres a few ways to play daemons, mono or mixed god lists, some are truly devestating and easy to win with if played correctly, others are fairly weak

it really is just up to you and how you want to play them, i have a few 1500pts mono god lists if your intersted, pm me

having a lot of success with my mono nurgle and fairly well with mono khorne, played mono slaanesh but didnt work out and mono tzeentch doesnt work at all

Inach
25-05-2009, 20:34
I dare to say that daemons are more specialized. the downfall of daemons is the their vurnability to firepower. So place them smart on the board and let the different units do what they can do best and Daemons = win. most important, daemons is (imo) always fun to play, even the battles I lost :D

CrownAxe
25-05-2009, 21:38
Seems to be the same exact strategy Tyranid's use.

Run across the board and zerg the opponents army. Only issue is the Daemon Army seems to be a lot easier to own with heavy firepower.

Anyone have a Daemon Army? How's it fair?

Far from it

Daemons need to take advantage of deep striking, they don't just run across the board. Put them into cover, attack key units. Put them where you need them

Plus each god has a variety of different skills they do well. Zerging is really only Khorne. Tzeentch sits back and pours fire, Nurgle Tarpits and absorbs fire and Slaanesh assassinates key units

Arrg
25-05-2009, 21:39
Deamons are in the top teir of armies right now.

Vomikron Noxis
25-05-2009, 22:12
Deamons are in the top teir of armies right now.

Hmmm not sure if that's true. There are some great Daemon builds, but even the best ones are too unpredictable to be completely dominating.

Mannimarco
25-05-2009, 22:21
used to be true cos daemons were new and had a whole new playstyle, it was somthing nobody had ever dealt with before and didnt really have many effective "counter strategies" now that they have been out for a while theres more effective anti daemon strategies

CrownAxe
25-05-2009, 22:47
Hmmm not sure if that's true. There are some great Daemon builds, but even the best ones are too unpredictable to be completely dominating.

Only in the hands of a mediocre general is it too unperdictable

thechosenone
25-05-2009, 23:09
The style of play as the demon player is kind of different. For me, most games can be won or lost during deployment but if i play my demons its a lot more target priority based then deployment based.

The thing with demons is, unless your playing against a mech force the demon player really dictates where the majority of the game is fought due to deep striking.

It can play a lot simpler then tyranids because for the tyranid its all in the hand to hand. The shooting of a tyranid army is just not that great. Barbed strangler aside there isn't much served by tyranid shooting that isn't better served by an extra set of scything talons.

For the demon you have more freedom. Slaanesh and Khorne units need CC to work yes but Nurgle is a big living shield that has no real tyranid equivalent. In fact Nurgle units are the tyranid killers of the demon force. that T7 carnifex won't last too long against a squad of plague bearers with noxious touch. The Tzeentch units are your shooting and that's good shooting BS 4 and BS 5 is a lot better then tyranid shooting. Though the weapons cost more things like demonic gaze, warp fire(the gene stealer killer) and breath of chaos are made of murder sauce and again they are excellent tyranid killers. Carnifex, zoanthropes and hive tyrants beware the flamers of tzeentch. Furies... i got nothing good to say about furies, sorry.

So yes, demons are like tyranids if you add a pinch of eldar to them. Very specialized and with varied tactics. Tyranids are universally useful in CC only with moderate shooting.

Vomikron Noxis
25-05-2009, 23:29
Only in the hands of a mediocre general is it too unperdictable

Well that really isnt true. An army so heavily based on successful deepstrike rolls is inherently unpredictable. Presumably this is done to counter the otherwise very high power level of Daemons. (over 9000 of course)

CrownAxe
25-05-2009, 23:37
Well that really isnt true. An army so heavily based on successful deepstrike rolls is inherently unpredictable. Presumably this is done to counter the otherwise very high power level of Daemons. (over 9000 of course)

I've played probably almost 80 games with Daemons and Deep striking hasn't been a real problem, especially with Running

I've had more trouble with constantly failing with my Herald's Bolt of Tzeentch against tanks then i have with deep striking

Splata
26-05-2009, 01:55
It can play a lot simpler then tyranids because for the tyranid its all in the hand to hand. The shooting of a tyranid army is just not that great. Barbed strangler aside there isn't much served by tyranid shooting that isn't better served by an extra set of scything talons.

For the demon you have more freedom. Slaanesh and Khorne units need CC to work yes but Nurgle is a big living shield that has no real tyranid equivalent. In fact Nurgle units are the tyranid killers of the demon force. that T7 carnifex won't last too long against a squad of plague bearers with noxious touch. The Tzeentch units are your shooting and that's good shooting BS 4 and BS 5 is a lot better then tyranid shooting. Though the weapons cost more things like demonic gaze, warp fire(the gene stealer killer) and breath of chaos are made of murder sauce and again they are excellent tyranid killers. Carnifex, zoanthropes and hive tyrants beware the flamers of tzeentch. Furies... i got nothing good to say about furies, sorry.

So yes, demons are like tyranids if you add a pinch of eldar to them. Very specialized and with varied tactics. Tyranids are universally useful in CC only with moderate shooting.

I'm really not sure what type of tyranids you've been playing but I've found the best Nid lists are all about shooting. Not much beats twin dev's (better than bs4, slightly) on warriors mixed in with some of the same + other heavy weapons on carnifexes and then finished off with lots of small arm fire from the many ranks of your gaunts. Its the kind of withering fusillade that takes down marines purely based on number of shots output. Frankly to say, will make a mockery of the invulnerable saves that are on display from deamons.
If built right the firepower that is on display from a tyranid host will rival that of a tau or guard, plus we don't have to worry about CC as much or vehicle damage table results.

In fact against nid's it would be much better for you in CC as our very strong hitters do not get bonuses against your troops like they do against others due to your invulnerable saves that we can't negate.

That said the style of play is quite different as with daemons you can almost instantly be swarming on the enemy (albeit with a smaller more elite army that comes piecemeal) and cause a lot of problems with target priority, something which is a major tactic in 40K

theDarkGeneral
26-05-2009, 02:20
Well, I play Daemons in both systems, and they play completely differently in each. In Fantasy, they're reliable, in 40K they're unpredictable.

Now I'm mostly an Apocalypse player, but i've had at 20+ games in the last few months with my Daemons, including a local RTT and Indy GT and done quite well with my mono Khorne Army. Only 3 losses, all to Space Marines (go figure), 2 different opponents. Most of my issues with the losses is that I'm still too new to 40K, and don't know the rules well, nor do I really take the games to heart...


Daemons can be incredibly powerful, but most of this has to do with if you own all the models...players that don't have access to the range (not cheap) tend to get forced into playing with what they have via Batallion boxes and a few odds and ends.

However, the fickle nature of the Army keeps them from being over powering. On a 3+ I get to choose just HALF of my Army to Deep Strike in on Turn 1. So 1 in 3 games I get screwed, and the wrong HALF appears. Not a good ratio for winning games. After half your Army is down, then you have to again rely upon ficke dice to get the rest to start Deep Striking down as well, hoping that you have an Icon somewhere on the table to make things easier.

As noted, large amounts of average firepower tend to wipe them out, as only a few models actually have an Armor Save, everything else is simply an Invulnerable Save, most being a 5+. So I'll loose more Bloodletters to Bolter fire then Lascannons on the average, since they can put out more shots per turn.


Now, my "normal" list is called Khorne Zilla, and is pretty hated amongst my fellow buddies and players as the entire Army counts as Power Weapons...so if I get there, it's chop-chop time!!! But, if I don't get the right units there and enough of them, I just chop up a little bit...

thechosenone
26-05-2009, 04:07
Well that really isnt true. An army so heavily based on successful deepstrike rolls is inherently unpredictable. Presumably this is done to counter the otherwise very high power level of Daemons. (over 9000 of course)

What! 9000!

Azhrarn
26-05-2009, 06:59
Seems to be the same exact strategy Tyranid's use.

Run across the board and zerg the opponents army. Only issue is the Daemon Army seems to be a lot easier to own with heavy firepower.

Anyone have a Daemon Army? How's it fair?

I'd compare Daemons more to Eldar than anything.
You have extremely specialised units that are extremely devastating at what they do, but die horribly if they get caught outside their natural environment. (be it CC or Shooting)
Most Daemon units are also slightly undercosted to compensate for your deployment rules (half the army deep strikes on turn 1, the rest is in reserves). That first half is generally quite capable of eating/stalling a sizeable chunk of your opponents army while the rest arrives. The only major weakness you have is against massed vehicles. Aside from DPs and Soulgrinders you have precious few AT-units. And those 2 are generally easy targets.

I'm working on a mixed army myself, and the few smaller games I've played were a lot of fun, but the army takes quite a bit of getting used too.
I tend to use my 1st wave as sacrificial material, dealing as much damage as it can on landing (it's almost 100% shooting) and then bogging the opponents down in the inevitable counter assault as long as possible to give my CC units time to arrive and get into combat.

Horrors, while lousy in CC tend to survive quite well thanks to their good invulnerable save which is something my opponents have underestimated more than once, much to their regret once the bloodletters arrived. :evilgrin: