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AvariceX
26-05-2009, 07:48
Hello Warseer :). I'm an old WFB 5th ed vet but I haven't played since early 6th ed. I recently picked up the VC and Empire books for 7th ed and figured I would try my hand at building a competitive Empire list first (I realize VC are higher in the power hierarchy right now). Any comments are welcome.

Lords:

Arch Lector.......187
great weapon, heavy armour, barded warhorse, The Silver Horn

Heroes:

Warrior Priest.....140
heavy armour, shield, barded warhorse, Van Horstmann's Speculum

Core:

20 Spearmen.....132
shields, standard bearer, musician

10 Free Company....50
detachment of Spearmen

8 Handgunners.....64
detachment of Spearmen

10 Huntsmen.....100

4 Knights of the White Wolf and Preceptor......155
standard bearer, musician

4 Reiksguard Knights and Preceptor......185
standard bearer, musician, Standard of Arcane Warding

Special:

19 Greatswords and Count's Champion.....230
standard bearer, musician

10 Free Company.....50
detachment of Greatswords

Great Cannon........100

Great Cannon........100

5 Pistoliers.......97
musician

Rare:

Helblaster Volley Gun......110

Steam Tank.......300

Total - 2000

Even though it's a list of my own creation I already have 3 problems with it:

1. No Flagellants. From the 2 games I've used them in 7th ed so far I haven't actually had much success with Flagellants, but I really like their fluff, especially in an army led by an Arch Lector and a Warrior Priest. Also being Unbreakable is really useful.

2. I'm not actually sure if I have enough shooting to force most armies to approach. I have deadly accuracy with cannons after past years of playing Empire, but I still don't know if it's enough.

3. No BSB. Particularly no Ludwig. I used Ludwig in a large 2vs2 game over the weekend and found that the Emperor's Standard is simply amazing, but I'm finding it a lot harder to squeeze him in without a teammate to compensate for my army's shortcomings.

As for the strategy I don't think it needs too much explaining. Huntsmen are simply marchblocks to get an extra turn or two of shooting. Arch Lector is in the Reiksguard unit, Warrior Priest is with the White Wolves. I'm trying to play defensively where possible and force the enemy to close the range with my helblaster and greatswords. I decided to take the handgunners as a detachment of the spearmen rather than the greatswords because I may want to move the greatswords forward depending on the situation but the spearmen will usually remain behind with the war machines, so the handgunners will retain their ability to provide support fire against a charge.

The Pistoliers and White Wolves will cover the flanks of the army, the spearmen and their detachments will be deployed towards the center to protect the war machines, the greatswords will be deployed on one side of the spearmen towards the White Wolves and the steam tank will usually go on the side of the greatswords not covered by the free company detachment (no one wants to deal with a block of Greatswords supported by a Tank). Finally the Arch Lector and Reiksguard will be deployed on the other side of the spearmen, offering the general's leadership to the spearmen block and the pistoliers. Deployment as always could change, but that's the general idea.

I haven't actually seen any other lists use The Silver Horn, but I've had some success with it in the past (6th ed mostly).

Malorian
26-05-2009, 19:52
1. Flagellants aren't all that great. If you want them take them, but they will take some skill to be effective.

2. I'd say you have enough shooting.

3. A BSB is nice but not needed in a list like this. If you do take one I would suggest the griffin banner.


Other issues:

1. Aren't knights 5+?

2. Van Horstmann's Speculum would be better on the lord, as would an alter. But seeing as I'm not sure what to cut to fit it it's no big deal.

3. Infantry would be better at 25.


So to get those knights to their minimum size and make the other changes I would simply join the knights into one unit, drop the magic banner, and drop the duplicate command and a knight or two. Knights 7 strong work well in a single rank.

AvariceX
26-05-2009, 20:57
There are 5 Knights in the units (4 Knights + Preceptor, sorry if that was confusing), I don't actually have a War Altar model and I'm really short on cash right now... the infantry blocks originally actually had 25 but I figured with the detachment I'll get the max rank bonus either way unless both units lose a rank.

Malorian
26-05-2009, 21:02
You don't get ranks from both units. You get the rank bonus of the best unit. So the detachment does nothing for you in that regard.

AvariceX
26-05-2009, 21:06
That makes things different then. I don't actually have access to the 7th ed rulebook right now but when I played on the weekend the person who's rulebook we were using explained it as getting the total rank bonus but it just couldn't go above +3 total...but I guess he was wrong.

lparigi34
26-05-2009, 22:28
IMHO, too many GoldSwords, drop to 15 and add a second detachment. Also a BSB with war banner helps their stubbornness.

I've found 3x3 infantry detachment size to be the most effective, being quite maneuverable.

No magic defense. What about a scroll caddy?

Main infantry, IMHO, make it 25 swordsmen.

Good Luck! and do post post-performance, please.

AvariceX
27-05-2009, 06:52
I have 5 dispel dice as well as magic resistance 2 on the unit my general is in, so while there isn't a great deal of magic defense, there is some. I've been playing with making some changes, firstly is reducing the knights to a single unit of Reiksguard and getting rid of the White Wolves. I'm probably replacing the Free Company detachments with Swordsmen (mathematically there's very little CR difference and Swordsmen are usually a little better, but I actually have lots of swordsmen models, and no militia models).

As for the main block of infantry I don't find much difference in using spearmen or swordsmen since the unit will almost never actually be charging, they'll just be staying behind to protect my firing line. Swordsmen get the better save and are slightly harder to hit, but spearmen get the extra rank on the return attacks...CR usually works out about the same. Also I might not have enough Swordsmen models for a full main block if I replace the Free Company detachments with Swordsmen.

Rather than reducing the greatswords, I'm actually thinking of upping them to 24 and throwing a BSB with the Griffon Standard in there...but then I'd have to drop points elsewhere, and that much static CR really seems like overkill on greatswords, so I might not bother.

The biggest problem I'm having is that my general is either going to be riding with the knights (most likely) or the pistoliers, which are both supposed to cover my flanks, meaning the General will be in a poor position for using his Ld (this wasn't a problem when I had 2 units of knights).

PapaSmurf
27-05-2009, 17:49
greatswords are IMO useless, 1 attack with a 4+ save? I'll take swordsmen every day, your lector needs to be with either swordsmen or knights

War alter + VHS + gorgon shield = really really hard to kill

Magic will rip you a new one, at worst you need a scroll caddy or more Warrior Priests to give more dispel dice

you need more knights, 2 units of 5 are not enough, you should bump them at least 1 model and consider making 1 inner circle, the +1Str is worth every penny

not sure how much fear you'll be facing but with LD 8, Icon of magnus is always on at least one of my WP, really helps making that charge when you need to.

unfortunately if you want to be competitive with empire, your choices become more limited (and in my case even that hasn't seemed to help)

cheers

PapaSmurf