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dal9ll
26-05-2009, 16:46
So Ive decided that I think Giants in the Warhammer world are totally awesome. Theyre hilarious and the model is utterly epic but Im wondering how powerful they are on the battlefield. Some of the special attacks like Yell and Bawl, Jump Up and Down, and Thump with Club seem pretty awesome and the Giant look really durable on paper but then again, Ive never played with one. Plus, Terror can be huge.

Are Slavegiants worth running in Ogre Kingdoms armies? They seem pretty cheap as far as points go, but are they actually as durable as they look on paper or are they just cannon-magnets?

Regardless, they seem two tons of fun on the table. Anyone care to share some experiences?

Thanks!

PS: If you have special, tried-and-true tactics or strategies on how to use and abuse Slavegiants, please do share!

eyeolas
26-05-2009, 16:55
Generally, a regular giant is better than the slave giant. throttle with chain is worse than the normal giant's version because its a toughness test rather than an init test (and you tend to be fighting hig toughness, low init models when using it), and the loss of stubborn means he dies much more easily

However, if you intend to use it as missile magnet, then its cheeper and just as durable, so go for it :D

Avian
26-05-2009, 16:56
My Ogre army uses one now and again. You will often hear people say that they don't think it's any good because it isn't Stubborn and I disagree - lack of Stubborn isn't that big of a deal since it is still Ld 10, though having the BSB nearby helps quite a bit in case it does something stupid like picking up an enemy champion.

One of the biggest problems I have against it is that it is pretty much useless against bigger things, since it swaps the normal Giant's Initiative-based attack for a Toughness-based attack, and enemy biggies tend to have T stats twice as high as their In stats. :(
Thus it needs to stay away from anything bigger than cavalry if at all possible.

So it's not awful and being a single critter on a 50 mm wide base is nice to have in an army where units are often 160 mm wide, but it's not especially good either. Unless you find random attacks amusing, I don't think you will like the Slavegiant very interesting.

Malorian
26-05-2009, 17:41
I use three in my ogre army... once I get to 4000 ;)

They are usually a waste but I find they work best in pairs and as fast terror causing flankers (the units they are up against are usually out of general's bubble).

The random attacks can be interesting and fun but again you'll want them in pairs so that if one does something useless you have a back up.

Gaargod
26-05-2009, 18:25
Honestly i'd say spend the extra 30pts and get a regular giant. He has stubborn ld10 so is much better to try and hold down units and his attacks are better.

When it comes down to it though, neither of them are very good. I'd say take an ogre bull rhinox rider. Hits harder (except against monsters with low I), is faster, has the same T, a respectable armour save and only 1 less wound. Doesn't have stubborn, but could have a standard (and even a war banner for some decent static combat res).

Malorian
26-05-2009, 18:28
Honestly i'd say spend the extra 30pts and get a regular giant. He has stubborn ld10 so is much better to try and hold down units and his attacks are better.

Ogre armies can't take regular giants.

In the DoW list of who can take giants ogre kingdoms isn't on the list.

Otherwise everyone would take the regular one over the slave giant.

Jericho
27-05-2009, 01:32
My friend Nathan used a Slavegiant in a tournament recently, and he was important in several of his wins. When an Ogre army gets 4 massacre wins out of 6 games, you have to assume the guy was doing something right :D

Basically the Slavegiant was used to support other units, and to terror bomb stuff like Goblins. Maneaters filled the stubborn role in that army, and anyone with Trollguts can do the same (I think that's the one with +1T and Stubborn?).

Stubborn is only useful if you expect to lose combats regularly. If you don't use the Slavegiant as an anchor unit then you should be okay. Hell, even regular giants aren't great anchors. T5 and no armor doesn't quite cut it these days.

Time of Madness
27-05-2009, 02:03
The best thing about slave giants is the ability to flee...most people won't expect you to do this...and it puts them in a bad position for some bull charges ;)
Time of Madness

Mercules
27-05-2009, 18:22
Not being Stubborn hurts if you roll "Pick up and...." and don't get a very good result. He is cheaper than a regular Giant though. I want one in my army just because I have been collecting various small chains and other items to use for modeling and want to model one. I doubt he will come out too often against the harder armies, but it might be fun to use him in some games.

In Ogres, you will need to support him or use him as support for others. The Slavegiant works well as a flanker where he won't face heroes that can kill him or huge amounts of Static CR. If you can get Ogres into the front of the unit then the setup is perfect. If the giant uses a crappy attack, hopefully the Ogres pull him through.

SuperArchMegalon
27-05-2009, 19:41
The Giant is one of the most maneuverable units in the army, behind only a Longstrider Tyrant and Sabertusks. He moves as a monster and so basically can go 12" in any direction. I've read about people using the Giant's flee reaction to surprise opponents as well.

Another good thing about the Slavegiant is that being cheaper, when he dies you have less to lose. Which he will, when your opponent's second or third shooting phase rolls around.

I prefer their other rare choices (Maneaters for rules/fluff, Gorger for rules), but it's a great model (lots of fun to put down). He provides a centerpiece for your army (if your Tyrant isn't bigger) and a variety of bitz to use.

Malorian
27-05-2009, 20:19
I've read about people using the Giant's flee reaction to surprise opponents as well.

Aren't they ItP?

Spirit
27-05-2009, 22:48
Aren't they ItP?

Nope :) Sounds like fun.

Malorian
27-05-2009, 22:57
Ya, I've never even thought of fleeing with them.

Could lead to some very surprised faces :D

Spirit
28-05-2009, 00:11
Ya, I've never even thought of fleeing with them.

Could lead to some very surprised faces :D

Especially if it leads to a unit of ogres getting a full bull charge off!

eyeolas
28-05-2009, 09:58
I've done it once before, and it was a good laugh as he failed to regroup for a bit. He also has to test to fall over IIRC, which could mean instadeath

dal9ll
28-05-2009, 17:43
The reason Im asking about Slavegiant's viability is because Im looking for an alternative to using 2 Gorgers as my normal Rare slot. Gorgers have their uses against missile/warmachine/lone character/monster-heavy armies like maybe High Elves, Dwarfs, Empire, Dark Elves, etc. with their ability to tie up units and rear charge them with an Unbreakable monster.

However against certain armies, especially Bretonnia (which I play with frequency), the Slavegiant seems the better choice. With its ability to bait/flee and its role as a flanker, it seems a better choice than Gorgers for these situations. Also 'Pick Up And...' is MUCH better against units like Grail Knights or Pegasus Knights where the individual units' models are fairly point-heavy. Terror definitely has its uses against armies like Skaven.

Any more thoughts?

eyeolas
28-05-2009, 18:52
Personally, there is nothing better than gorgers in the ogre book. unbreakable will take a long time to get over if you charge in the rear, and with his good T and W, he's a good combat unit in his own right (let alone in pairs!)

Mercules
28-05-2009, 22:11
Uh, huh.... Gorgers are good, but they are not the be-all-end-all choice. Against a highly mobile army with no warmachines or big blocks like WE, Cavalry forces, and such Gorgers are nothing more than something chasing after stuff all game or dying by ranged attacks. :)

Keller
29-05-2009, 00:14
Uh, huh.... Gorgers are good, but they are not the be-all-end-all choice. Against a highly mobile army with no warmachines or big blocks like WE, Cavalry forces, and such Gorgers are nothing more than something chasing after stuff all game or dying by ranged attacks. :)

exactly. I've never had a lot of luck with my gorgers, so I don't tend to run them very often anymore.

Against armies with viable targets, mine never show up in a timely fashion and don't help much. Most of the time, they show up and are quickly shot to death before they can get a charge off. Too bad they can't arrive and charge like TK "It came from below" units....

Spirit
29-05-2009, 02:32
unbreakable will take a long time to get over if you charge in the rear,

Why would charging in the rear affect the survivability of an unbreakable unit?

Mercules
29-05-2009, 09:16
I can only assume he is thinking because the characters are not there. What he is forgetting is that turn 2, after they have won the combat from Static CR the character can be in the back row killing off the Gorger.

SuperArchMegalon
29-05-2009, 09:35
Against Bretonnia I think a SlaveGiant is a great choice. Maneaters too, with BoH. 3 of those bad boys with Troll Guts is the most devastating unit in the book. 15 S5 attacks in CC...

eyeolas
29-05-2009, 10:07
Generally, in the rear means he won't be counter charged was more what I was thinking, because if he's charging something the turn afetr appearing, it will probably be at the back with a wizard at best inside it

But I suppose my view is a little biased because i play mostly goblins, and gorgers scare the hell out of me (anything unbreakable to be precised)