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Kevlar
27-05-2009, 16:23
I was just wondering if there is a faq on conditional ward saves that are based on the strength of the attack, versus attacks that auto wound on a 4+ and do not have a strength value. Stuff like the Dark Elf reverse ward save vs Plague censer fumes or poison wind globes. Do they still get a save and what would it be?

Paz
27-05-2009, 16:31
No ward save. reverse WS is based on the strength, there is no WS cause there is nothing you can base on.

vodrake
27-05-2009, 16:32
they dont get a ward save. against stuff like a runefang or ghal maraz, it would be the strength of the bearer, but against stuff without a strength value (some giant attacks, censers etc.) there is no ward save.

Mercules
27-05-2009, 16:54
Thus making that particular item a bit more in balance with it's low cost.

Lord Yawgmoth
27-05-2009, 18:02
Thus making that particular item a bit more in balance with it's low cost.

^.^ barely

If my army could have that item, i would be ssooooooo happy.

danny-d-b
27-05-2009, 18:06
I don't care about it realy

most of the time there dieing of burbus!

Spirit
27-05-2009, 18:57
Death magic + bane head for the win!

T10
27-05-2009, 19:32
they dont get a ward save. against stuff like a runefang or ghal maraz, it would be the strength of the bearer, but against stuff without a strength value (some giant attacks, censers etc.) there is no ward save.

I beg to differ. Even though the attack wounds automatically the Strength of the attack still applies. So you get the "reverse ward" save against both the Rune Fang, Ghal-Maraz and Sword of Hoeth...

-T10

TheDarkDaff
27-05-2009, 19:33
^.^ barely

If my army could have that item, i would be ssooooooo happy.

And if my army could get a decent toughness and loose that item i would be ssooooooo happy.

The guy who made Elves T3 was an idiot pure and simple unless they also capped all humans except mutants at it too.

Clegane
27-05-2009, 20:32
I beg to differ. Even though the attack wounds automatically the Strength of the attack still applies. So you get the "reverse ward" save against both the Rune Fang, Ghal-Maraz and Sword of Hoeth...

-T10

Ummm...that's exactly what he said. Don't be a hater.

Necromancy Black
27-05-2009, 23:07
Ummm...that's exactly what he said. Don't be a hater.

+1

Also I agree that steal soul is the best way to take them down, but won't you have to randomise the hit if the DE is riding a monstrous mount?

EvC
27-05-2009, 23:49
Yes you will.

Man I'd love to meet a Dark Elf player who would happily switch the Pendant of Khaeleth for +1 toughness in a friendly game. So easy to make the offer on the internet, eh? ;)

Clegane
28-05-2009, 00:03
I have actually found the high-hit, low-impact magic missiles to be exceptionally useful for taking down Dirt Lords. Even when mounted on a Dragon.

Most of them are 2d6 S1-2, no armor save. They essentially leave him with a 4+ and a 5/6+ save. Even with only wounding on 5's/6's, the sheer volume of hits is likely to mess him up with a few rounds of concentrated fire.

My Ogre Butchers have 'Bonecrunched' more than a few Dirt Lords this way. As have my disc sorcs with Bloodcurdling Roar.

EvC
28-05-2009, 00:13
Yep, at a tournament a month or so ago my opponent charged his Dreadlord out a unit to destroy my chariot, which gave me perfect opportunity to hit him with a Bloodcurdling Roar the next turn... only one wound, scored me zero VPs, but the sweetest wound I caused all battle :D

Mercules
28-05-2009, 00:58
I have actually found the high-hit, low-impact magic missiles to be exceptionally useful for taking down Dirt Lords. Even when mounted on a Dragon.

Most of them are 2d6 S1-2, no armor save. They essentially leave him with a 4+ and a 5/6+ save. Even with only wounding on 5's/6's, the sheer volume of hits is likely to mess him up with a few rounds of concentrated fire.

My Ogre Butchers have 'Bonecrunched' more than a few Dirt Lords this way. As have my disc sorcs with Bloodcurdling Roar.

Bonecruncher has worked for me to wound them. Never managed a kill that way, but I scared the snot out of a DE lord on a Manticore once.

sulla
28-05-2009, 01:02
Yes you will.

Man I'd love to meet a Dark Elf player who would happily switch the Pendant of Khaeleth for +1 toughness in a friendly game. So easy to make the offer on the internet, eh? ;)
I often swap it for MR3 vs warriors and their flickering fire/buboes spam. I can't see the point in the +1 toughness or -1 strength though. being t4 is just not worth as much as boosting your hitting power. I'd rather spend magic points on that.

selone
28-05-2009, 01:36
Buboes works against it.

EvC
28-05-2009, 13:32
Hehe, tailoring your lists vs Warriors Sulla :D

xragg
28-05-2009, 13:48
What makes the PoK broken is when its combined with armor. I really believe the writers intended PoK for sorceress's, but were just way to blind to see how broken it becomes when combine with a great armor save (and regen beyond that). If they would add "may not be combine with armor", the point cost would instantly be appropriate.

Mercules
28-05-2009, 14:07
This is actually when those, "an additional -2 to armor save" weapons come in handy. They decrease the armor save without increasing the ward save. Of course when you are already at S5 the point is a bit moot.

I have to agree xragg, if they had made it a Sorceress/Hag only item it would have been perfectly balanced. As it is it makes it difficult to kill a heavily armored Lord.

Aglemar
28-05-2009, 17:28
I disagree, you pretty much want the dark elf lords to be what they were last edition, worthless or dragon delivery systems. Our lords don't have the power of most other lords, we make up for that with great defensive options instead.

Clegane
28-05-2009, 21:20
I disagree, you pretty much want the dark elf lords to be what they were last edition, worthless or dragon delivery systems. Our lords don't have the power of most other lords, we make up for that with great defensive options instead.

Heh.
I'd say that a combined 2+ armor save, reversible Ward save, and a 4+ regen save all on the same character goes a bit beyond 'great defensive options.' Especially since you can still easily throw MR on him to boot.

Many Lord level characters have comparable statlines to the Dirt Lord. Skaven Warlords, Empire Lords, Wood and High Elf Lords, Bret Lords. Sure, the stat lines aren't identical. Some of them have 4T instead of your 3T. But you generally beat them in WS, BS, Initative and LD. In the end, the stat lines mostly balance out.

Except that none of them can even come CLOSE to getting the cheesed-out level of saving throws that your illustrious Dirt Lord can pack.

In my opinion, you can generally tell when a character option is overpowered when you see the exact same kit loadout appear game after game after game after game with different DE players.

I don't remember the last time I faced a DE army at 2K+ that DIDN'T include the Dirt Lord. When it goes from being a tactical choice to an 'auto-include', then it probably isn't particularly balanced.

Mercules
28-05-2009, 21:44
I disagree, you pretty much want the dark elf lords to be what they were last edition, worthless or dragon delivery systems. Our lords don't have the power of most other lords, we make up for that with great defensive options instead.

Yes, because the defensive option really mattered when a DE Lord chopped up a Treeman on a charge and challenge. No, I did not have AoN on the Treeman Ancient because it would have cost me heavily on comp scores to do so. Caledor's Bane chewed up the Treeman Ancient something fierce. Don't try and play the, "Our Lord can't fight" card. It doesn't work anymore since that is simply no longer true.

sulla
28-05-2009, 22:27
Hehe, tailoring your lists vs Warriors Sulla :D

:evilgrin:Of course. I expect them to tailor against me too. Philosophically, I believe that if we don't tailor, 75% of each list is discarded because it is sub-optimal vs certain common builds. At least by tailoring, every 'dog' has it's day. You just don't get lumped with it vs armies that make it free VP's. :D
(I was never a great fann of nigel Stillman's 'pick an army and never vary it, no matter what' theory. I've got 8000pts of DE; why wouldn't I want to shake it up a little?) Plus I think I'm incapable of using the same army two weeks in a row...:rolleyes:

Most of my tailoring is just to get some current mad scheme or or other of mine to work against an opponent though; like trying to make a manticore work when a dragon would be the no-brainer.

Heh.
I'd say that a combined 2+ armor save, reversible Ward save, and a 4+ regen save all on the same character goes a bit beyond 'great defensive options.' Especially since you can still easily throw MR on him to boot.
MR how? By adding another character into his unit or by putting it on his unit champ... so not on his own. If you want to compare unit bonuses, then you have to compare him to VC lords with 4+ ward saves, regen from the BSB, immunity to poison and killing blow, 2+ save, cursed book for the first round of combat and 4 levels of magic for invocations. Or a tzeench lord with 1+, 5+ ward, regen, immunity to killing blow and multi wound hits and t5? Or a khorne lord with 0+ save, regen, immunity to kb, poison. Neither of them is partcularly killable either.



Except that none of them can even come CLOSE to getting the cheesed-out level of saving throws that your illustrious Dirt Lord can pack. Yeah they do, and they get s5 attacks as standard too.


In my opinion, you can generally tell when a character option is overpowered when you see the exact same kit loadout appear game after game after game after game with different DE players.

What kitout is that exactly? I've never seen a player actually use the regen armour and reverse ward on the same character. I certainly haven't. Why bother? The pendant is good enough.

Aglemar
29-05-2009, 15:31
Yes, because the defensive option really mattered when a DE Lord chopped up a Treeman on a charge and challenge. No, I did not have AoN on the Treeman Ancient because it would have cost me heavily on comp scores to do so. Caledor's Bane chewed up the Treeman Ancient something fierce. Don't try and play the, "Our Lord can't fight" card. It doesn't work anymore since that is simply no longer true.

If you had taken AoN then the dark elf lord couldn't touch you. Your complaint is NOT with the strength of the dark elf lord, your complaint is with the composition system that you use.

If I am not mistaken, the Treeman has regeneration. Even if all attacks hit (3+ reroll), even if all attacks wound (3+ no reroll), then regeneration alone should make the lord only do two wounds to you. Realistically the lord should only be doing one or two wounds to you the first round. The second round he needs 6's to wound, has to get past a 4+ armor save I believe(after the -1) and then get past regeneration as well. At this point he loses combat from doing no wounds and being outnumbered, and autobreaks from terror. What you are describing appears to be called bad luck, the game isn't balanced around that.

EvC
29-05-2009, 15:46
Quite mistaken. A Treeman, just like every other Forest Spirit, has a Ward save of 5+, that is negated by magic attacks, such as those from Caledor's Bane. However, you would still only expect the Dark Elf to do 2-3 wounds, and the situation would still be the same. I assume the Dreadlord in his case was either backed up by another unit to avoid outnumber, or simply on a Dragon.

But Mercules is right either way: it is simply rubbish to claim that Dark Elf Lords aren't killy, and thus that justifies them to have a way to be nigh unkillable. Every Dark Elf Lord out there has minimum 4 attacks with hatred and S6 (either great weapon or hatred). That's with merely mundane equipment- you can add kinds of other gear on there to make them even nastier, or put them in units for ASF, etc. The only armies with killier Lords are Chaos Warriors (Considered a weak choice) and Daemons (And Vamps, again the "weaker choice" compared to a caster lord however), which are all vastly more expensive as well, and easier to kill than a Pendant Dreadlord.

Aglemar
29-05-2009, 16:16
I said if I recalled correctly them having regeneration in my statement, go reread it. That makes the 2 or 3 wounds 1 or 2 wounds.

A unit or a dragon don't matter. We are talking the strength of the lord himself. On a dragon the pendant is balanced by the dragon itself being the primary target and not benefiting from the defense. If he was in a unit then he wasn't being a tough 'killy' character but merely a character winning with combat resolution as the unit likely could of done without him.

As for dark elves having a minimum of 4 STR 6 attacks, you forget to mention that for the most part they have a maximum of 4 STR 6 attacks as well.

Memnos
29-05-2009, 16:26
I beg to differ. Even though the attack wounds automatically the Strength of the attack still applies. So you get the "reverse ward" save against both the Rune Fang, Ghal-Maraz and Sword of Hoeth...

-T10

There is no strength to the attack. It just 'auto wounds'. Therefore, no save. It has no listed strength.

This used to be FAQ'd as the Spangleshard automatically ignoring any auto-wound item, since you didn't roll to wound.

Now, the FAQ lies down and quietly avoids the question, so there's no actual official ruling on it.

On the other hand... Anybody who takes an Elector Count character, who has terrible stats for a Lord(WS 5, BS 5 and 3 attacks. Woo!) and gives them a single magic item... Are you really going to bitterly complain about not being able to use one magic item? That is one dead Empire guy against any other character. Give him his single shining moment.

EvC
29-05-2009, 16:32
T10 is correct, even if you wouldn't like him to be, Memnos. An Empire General strikes at S4, even if he does have a weapon that automatically wounds.


I said if I recalled correctly them having regeneration in my statement, go reread it. That makes the 2 or 3 wounds 1 or 2 wounds.

Err, yes, you were wrong. Don't get defensive because I dared to correct you.


A unit or a dragon don't matter. We are talking the strength of the lord himself. On a dragon the pendant is balanced by the dragon itself being the primary target and not benefiting from the defense. If he was in a unit then he wasn't being a tough 'killy' character but merely a character winning with combat resolution as the unit likely could of done without him.

As I said, the situation would still be as you described. Which doesn't change Mercules' overall point.


As for dark elves having a minimum of 4 STR 6 attacks, you forget to mention that for the most part they have a maximum of 4 STR 6 attacks as well.

Sigh. The added effects from magic items to 4 hatred S6 attacks are obviously only BETTER- adding Killing Blow, +3S (Potion or Caledor's Bane), armour piercing, +D3 attacks, plus potential buffs from standard bearers or a Cauldron, all adding up to one thing: the Dreadlord will have minimum of 4 hatred S6 attacks, which is better than most other armies' Lords, and can improve his killiness quite nicely.

Or in other words, exactly what I already said. Of course, I was saying something that makes your chosen army look strong and effective, so you had to argue with me. Not entirely sure why, given my post was accurate and honest. Those are usually considered good things.

Mercules
29-05-2009, 17:22
If you had taken AoN then the dark elf lord couldn't touch you. Your complaint is NOT with the strength of the dark elf lord, your complaint is with the composition system that you use.

If I am not mistaken, the Treeman has regeneration. Even if all attacks hit (3+ reroll), even if all attacks wound (3+ no reroll), then regeneration alone should make the lord only do two wounds to you. Realistically the lord should only be doing one or two wounds to you the first round. The second round he needs 6's to wound, has to get past a 4+ armor save I believe(after the -1) and then get past regeneration as well. At this point he loses combat from doing no wounds and being outnumbered, and autobreaks from terror. What you are describing appears to be called bad luck, the game isn't balanced around that.

You are mistaken. Treeman can only get Regeneration if a Spellsinger casts a spell that gives them Regeneration. So the Treeman gets no save against the attacks. ;)

Aside from that I've never seen a Dragon/Hydra/other Scaly Skin save model with AoN. I don't have an issue with DE's offensive power. I have an issue with someone claiming they need their super defensive gear because DE Lords don't have any offensive power, which is incorrect. ;)

Draconian77
29-05-2009, 17:59
I'd say that a combined 2+ armor save, reversible Ward save, and a 4+ regen save all on the same character goes a bit beyond 'great defensive options.' Especially since you can still easily throw MR on him to boot.


Really? Because I'm looking at my book and the Pendant and the Null Talismans both seem to be Talismans...

Aglemar
29-05-2009, 18:00
Err, yes, you were wrong. Don't get defensive because I dared to correct you.

Except no where in your post did you say that Treemen don't have regeneration. You said they had a ward save which is negated with magic weapons, which I already knew so did not include, but you said nothing about regeneration. So no, I'm not being being defensive in this case because you never actually corrected me ;)


Sigh. The added effects from magic items to 4 hatred S6 attacks are obviously only BETTER- adding Killing Blow, +3S (Potion or Caledor's Bane), armour piercing, +D3 attacks, plus potential buffs from standard bearers or a Cauldron, all adding up to one thing: the Dreadlord will have minimum of 4 hatred S6 attacks, which is better than most other armies' Lords, and can improve his killiness quite nicely.

All of which tends to be situational, random, or limited. The lord has no good solid enhancements really over the good old always strike at S6 weapon.
So I stand by my point, Dark Elf lords are only ever likely to be 4 attacks at strength 6.


Or in other words, exactly what I already said. Of course, I was saying something that makes your chosen army look strong and effective, so you had to argue with me. Not entirely sure why, given my post was accurate and honest. Those are usually considered good things.

Not really, theres a difference between strong and effective and broken and cheese. I agree that dark elves are strong and effective, as all armies should aim to be. I don't agree that they are broken and cheese. I am not saying that the dark elf lord is weak, just that he has his role in the army and he is good at it.

Zeuy
29-05-2009, 18:49
Unless I'm mistaken this is a thread asking about how the Pendent of Khaelth(sp?) interacts with things without a strength value. It was answered on the first page, so unless anybody else has something else to add to the TOPIC, we should probably stop. (Sorry if I overstepped my bounds)

EvC
29-05-2009, 18:49
Wow, you're actually quibbling over what the definition of being corrected is. A new low for Warseer?

Anyway... now who said Dreadlords are broken and cheese? Both Mercules and me have both successfully refuted your claim that Dreadlords can't dish out the hurt, and that's all we've said. Gotta wonder why some Dark Elf players like yourself instantly think that we're accusing you of something dastardly if we just try and state the undeniable facts (Such as, a Dreadlords are pretty good in combat). Guilty conscience? ;)

[Perhaps Zuey, but as long as there are IMPORTANT questions like if a Treeman has regeneration to be solved, the thread is warranted! :D ]

Aglemar
29-05-2009, 20:16
Wow, you're actually quibbling over what the definition of being corrected is. A new low for Warseer?

Anyway... now who said Dreadlords are broken and cheese? Both Mercules and me have both successfully refuted your claim that Dreadlords can't dish out the hurt, and that's all we've said. Gotta wonder why some Dark Elf players like yourself instantly think that we're accusing you of something dastardly if we just try and state the undeniable facts (Such as, a Dreadlords are pretty good in combat). Guilty conscience? ;)

[Perhaps Zuey, but as long as there are IMPORTANT questions like if a Treeman has regeneration to be solved, the thread is warranted! :D ]

Yet flaming is the same old low eh? Point me where in your post you pointed out that treemen do not in fact have regeneration and I will agree that you corrected me. You didn't, someone else did and for that I think them for their help (I think it was flamable that got me mixed up with regen). If you wanted to help you would of simply pointed that out, but you never did.

Please keep in mind this is a thread, not three people talking. Mercules posted that the item would be balanced if it was sorceress only, implying that it currently is broken or unbalanced. Clegane stated flat out that it was cheesy. You claimed I was acting like it was to weak, so I clarified that no, I think it is strong, effective, and right for the army. So now I'm secretly guilty because I feel its to strong and broken?

You haven't successfully refuted anything. You and I have different opinions and that is all. You trying to act like you have somehow beaten people is offensive, and your insinuation that no matter what I say I'm being dishonest is insulting. Your allowed to disagree with my opinion and to defend that, but you now are pretty much resorting to just insulting me so theres no real point continuing this discussion.

EvC
29-05-2009, 20:54
Flaming? What flaming? Where? The "guilty conscience" remark, with a wink? Seriously?

If you say a Treeman has regeneration, and I tell you that you are mistaken and that the extra save it has is a ward save, then you should be able to work out from that, that I am saying that it doesn't have regeneration. Honestly, I was crediting you with intelligence, you should take that as a compliment, instead of twisting what I actually said to make out I didn't correct you. It doesn't make you look like the smart person I am sure you are.

The Pendant is unbalanced for what it provides. That's not the end of the world. It doesn't make you a bad person for using it. It makes statements that "Dreadlords are especially hard to kill" true, and should help you understand why people don't like them. That's all. No-one can blame anyone for taking the Pendant, but you can't blame us for not liking its existence. I will only accuse you of acting guilty if you kneejerk reply and act like I've just told you you are a massive cheesemeister. I am specifically not saying that. So let's chill out, yeah? :)

You stated that your Dark Elf Lords don't have the power of most other armies' Lords. This is patently false. I already demonstrated this- only a few other armies have stronger Lord choices. This is fact, yet you still resist. Whether this makes Dark Elf Dreadlord broken, overpowered, cheesy or balanced is the matter of opinion. I must admit to being a bit of a fence-sitter, as the Dreadlord, while killy, is no Bloodthirster, but can still do a lot of damage (I know one guy who runs his Dreadlord in such a fashion as to get 8 ASF S7 attacks from him, but at least that's for one turn only!). The Pendant is way too strong for its points cost, even on a T3 model, yes- in my opinion. In yours it might be fine and balanced, and I won't argue with your opinion. Try to argue that a Pendant Dreadlord can't achieve anything other than staying alive, or that we all wish that Dark Elves were rubbish like the old days- and yes, I'm going to disagree with you, and tell you that you're wrong. And I won't apologise for it ;)

Mercules
29-05-2009, 21:07
Please keep in mind this is a thread, not three people talking. Mercules posted that the item would be balanced if it was sorceress only, implying that it currently is broken or unbalanced. Clegane stated flat out that it was cheesy. You claimed I was acting like it was to weak, so I clarified that no, I think it is strong, effective, and right for the army. So now I'm secretly guilty because I feel its to strong and broken?

It isn't Broken, it is undercosted. Ogres are not worthless, they are overcosted.

There was a claim that DE needed VERY powerful defensive items since their Lords were not very offensive and basically a Dragon Delivery system. At which point I choked on what I was drinking and started thinking about Lifetaker, Blade of Spite, Caledor's Bane, Heartseeker, Hydra Blade, and half dozen other good weapons that work REALLY well with Hatred and the stats a DE Lord has.

Now, WoC wizards can get a 0+ save but WoC characters have to take the Mark of Tzeentch to get a Ward Save in close combat or the common item. On the other hand DE can have a nice and dangerous weapon, a good armor save, and a "Ward Save" that only gets better the easier they can wound and bypass your armor.

DE are not broken, but some of their items seem like they should cost a tiny bit more for what they do. They allow some combos that are nasty like 1+ armor save, reverse ward save, and 40 points for a Magical weapon with a lot of good options depending on what you see him doing during the game.

Kalec
30-05-2009, 02:50
They allow some combos that are nasty like 1+ armor save, reverse ward save, and 40 points for a Magical weapon with a lot of good options depending on what you see him doing during the game.

Sounds underpowered, better give every character they have free regeneration to make up for their lack of killing power.

Draconian77
30-05-2009, 03:58
There was a claim that DE needed VERY powerful defensive items since their Lords were not very offensive and basically a Dragon Delivery system.

Definately not true, a simple Great Weapon turns basically any fighty character into a killing machine. A character with a great weapon and the Pendant can duke it out with almost anything.

At which point I choked on what I was drinking and started thinking about Lifetaker, Blade of Spite, Caledor's Bane, Heartseeker, Hydra Blade, and half dozen other good weapons that work REALLY well with Hatred and the stats a DE Lord has.

Not to nitpick or anything but for the Blade of Ruin, Heartseeker and the Hydra Blade to be effective the Dreadlord really needs to have a minimum Str value of 5.(Granted he can be 7 for one turn but that comes with obvious drawbacks.) The Lifetaker lost all value to me as soon as it lost its magical attacks.(I still do not comprehend GW's stance on this...)



Due to the nature of WHFB S/T/Save system most people will normally choose 4 S7 attacks over 6 S4 attacks, this makes most of the magic weapons that do not increase strength rather poor choices in the eyes of most competitive Druchii players. The Chillblade was tempting, but 50pts and the fact that you couldn't roll to wound makes it very unappealing when the Empire have the 25pt Hammer of Judgement lying around.

Mercules
30-05-2009, 04:54
Weird, because the Cauldron can give you KB. With the re-roll from hatred those 6 S4 attacks look tempting. Against most RnF S4 isn't all that bad. Heck, I do more wounds with Gnoblar shooting than Leadbelcher and those are S2 vrs S4.

Lets look...
Blade of Spite, 5 or 6 Auto-wounds.
Crimson Death ALWAYS S6 on attack.
Deathpiercer for a mounted Dreadlord which is +2 and KB
Heartseaker even more rerolling both hits and wounds.
Soulrender(for a cheap 15 points) GW +2 S and AP

In a unit with the ASF banner and one of the GW version of the weapon you kill most things charging your Lord. If not they can't wound him unless you get really unlucky.

There are army books that would love these weapons for the point cost it is listed in the DE book.

Oh no, the Hammer of Judgement. First they have to have taken it and it is a pretty poor choice for most of the things you want your Captains/Priests/General to go after which are usually OTHER characters often with good Toughness or items that says, "You pass all attribute tests." It is still S4 so roll a 1,2,3,4. 2/3rds of a chance of saving any wound you say IF he hits you and you fail your To test.

You bring up the Hammer of Judgement? Really?

Oh no... a 6 point Skink with a blowpipe can wound my 200-300 point Tyrant anytime they roll a 6 and I only get a 5+ save against it. I better complain.:rolleyes: Then again I am sure they are not as common as the Hammer of Judgement or Magnificent Buboes.

nosferatu1001
30-05-2009, 11:38
Skink skirmishers are 7 points now ;)

Mercules
30-05-2009, 12:06
Skink Cohorts are 6, then again they don't carry blowpipes. :) Whoops. :)

nosferatu1001
30-05-2009, 13:13
No, Skink Cohorts are 5 points, with jav and shield. ;)

EvC
30-05-2009, 16:18
There's no such unit as a Skink Cohort! :p

nosferatu1001
30-05-2009, 18:10
Damn you EvC, they were skink cohorts in Lustria...theyre just skinks now :D