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xerxeshavelock
27-05-2009, 18:35
So, who still thinks Stormtroopers aren't worth taking at the points, and who thinks they have got value from them?

Petay1985
27-05-2009, 18:41
i think that they are ludicrously expensive, however i also think that the concept of a 'hot-shot' lasgun is hugely overpowered so the points are justified i guess.

if you want silly weapons then you pay silly points.

silence
27-05-2009, 18:48
They are probably not worth taking.... But I really can't help myself :(

Vaktathi
27-05-2009, 19:09
So, who still thinks Stormtroopers aren't worth taking at the points, and who thinks they have got value from them?

Even for AP3, 16pts each is just way too much. If they were I4 WS4 and could actually make use of their pistol+CCW they might be considerable, but as is they are just too vulnerable and unable to make effective use of all of their equipment.

Their cost is just far too high.

The S3 guns, coupled with WS3 I3 and the Ld7/8 just hurts too much. At 12-13pts they'd be ok, but 16 is just too high.

Joewrightgm
27-05-2009, 19:30
I thought the same thing before they arrived right by my home objective and 16 hot-shot and 4 plasma gun shots later, I had lost the better part of a Necron Warrior unit.

The only thing that saved me from being totally boned was my We'll Be Back! being really hot.

They're pretty bad ass if you ask me. But that is just anecdotal evidence and in no way takes into account the popular "math-hammer"

Damocles8
27-05-2009, 19:36
I think they're worth it.....pistol+CCW; krak grenades; Special Missions; I really think they are worth paying 16 points for.....

Alfonzo
27-05-2009, 19:39
The main issue, to my mind, is that they are incredibly dependent on what army you are playing against. Versus MEQs they can be brutal, but against anything that normally packs a 5+ they're not really worth it.

decker_cky
27-05-2009, 19:41
They are a bit overcosted, but still are worth it since they have a lot of flexibility and provide support that's largely unavailable elsewhere in the list. The don't excel in a sit and shoot mathammer situation since they have the mission option and a lot of non-ideal equipment that will only be useful sometimes. Where they excel is in putting themselves in the positions they need to be getting the most out of those abilities.


The main issue, to my mind, is that they are incredibly dependent on what army you are playing against. Versus MEQs they can be brutal, but against anything that normally packs a 5+ they're not really worth it.

They're solid against anything with a 4+ save, which most armies have available. Even orks often have Nobz or Ard Boyz. Nids have warriors, elite fexes, etc.. that can make targets for them.

JCOLL
27-05-2009, 19:45
Too cool not to take when you're playing high points cost games IMHO. I love the Kasrkins (however you spell it) and the old stormtroopers still have a lot of character. With plastic ones possibly coming I'm happy. I tend to play units I want to play instead of ones that are considered to not be cost effective. The idea of a unit jumping out of the back of a Valk makes me a happy wargamer :)

Havock
27-05-2009, 19:49
Bleh, should have been 13 pts MAX.
They still die like flies.

I'd rather have had the old ap5 hellgun with the rest of the new stuff for the old pts cost, really.

MrMojoZ
27-05-2009, 19:50
Versus MEQs they can be brutal, but against anything that normally packs a 5+ they're not really worth it.

Yeah MEQs really sweat the str 3.

Treadhead_1st
27-05-2009, 20:40
I think they are perhaps a little over-costed, but my 8 with 2xGrenade Launchers/Flamers (experimenting with set-ups) are performing admirably for me, despite the whole internet telling me they're useless and I should drop them for something else.

On-paper they don't seem fantastic (or maybe it's just the rest of my army is even worse that they're supposed to be) but for me they work out just fine, so I don't mind the cost associated. They are a bit of a pain to squeeze in (if they were an even 15-points-per-model then I could squeeze an extra gun or two elsewhere into the list, and it would be easier to add-up on the fly).

Master Stark
27-05-2009, 21:24
They cost roughly twice as much as Veterans.

They are not twice as effective as Veterans.

Epicenter
27-05-2009, 22:06
A full squad of Stormtroopers (except for the stupid and ineffective sergeant) firing Hot-Shots kick out about four wounds onto MEQ at AP3. With some combination of that and plasma you could probably wipe out an entire ... combat squad of Space Marines.

Mind you, there's a pretty good chance you could do the same for a lot less with Vets with plasma guns. It boils down more to if you think the missions are worth it. I don't think they are.

The WS and I stats don't bug me as much as the fact they probably need to kick out just a few more shots somehow. If they had like three special weapons slots or something. I personally think Vets are still too good at the new Codex - I predicted they'd be nerfed somehow, but Mr. Cruddace made them TROOPS and pretty much kept them the same - that really made my jaw drop.

It's somewhere that I think Vets are way too good and Stormtroopers are too expensive.

xerxeshavelock
27-05-2009, 22:15
Hearing a lot of people not playing them and saying they're too expensive, and people playing them saying they're good. Has anyone tried them consistantly and decided they're not worth it? Or has anyone grudgingly given them a go and had a pleasant surprise?

Charistoph
27-05-2009, 22:29
If you're looking at just the weaponry and base stats, then yes, they are rediculous.

Add in their other special rules, and the tally climbs.

It all depends on what you are already fielding and what you plan on facing.

Epicenter
27-05-2009, 22:49
Hearing a lot of people not playing them and saying they're too expensive, and people playing them saying they're good. Has anyone tried them consistantly and decided they're not worth it? Or has anyone grudgingly given them a go and had a pleasant surprise?

Most people who go against the grain to take units that everyone else says are rubbish aren't expecting them to do much.

When they do anything at all, they're pleasantly surprised and declare the unit "good."

The reality lies somewhere inbetween.

xerxeshavelock
27-05-2009, 23:01
Most people who go against the grain to take units that everyone else says are rubbish aren't expecting them to do much.

When they do anything at all, they're pleasantly surprised and declare the unit "good."

The reality lies somewhere inbetween.

When the points values were announced/leaked I read a lot of people saying they were pointed rediculously. Just wondering if they are still of that opinion.

They seem situational, but have flexibility on their side. Is spending say 180 points on a squad worth it? Would you swap them for the same points worth of Veterans? If you use Vets regularly maybe try the Storms for a few games, or if you use Storms maybe try Vets instead.

Which of the deployment options do you use the most, or does it vary?

Treadhead_1st
27-05-2009, 23:28
I'm using a squad of 8 with the cheaper special weapons - it's been out-performing a Veteran Squad with Melta unit I was using before, thanks mostly to the special deployments meaning I can actually get the unit where it's needed.

I favour Behind Enemy Lines because the Infiltration is handy, and "first round of shooting is pinning" is always amusing when fielding Flamers or Grenade Launchers against bunched-up units. Can really stall an enemy advance if you do it right and get a little lucky. The re-rolling Scatter might make them handy for shock-assault units, that is to drop in quite close to the enemy and let fly with 5 plasma shots and 14 Hellgun shots.

Since I may now take a Valkyrie, I'll have to test both units out once more. I'm thinking of Infil. the Storm Troopers to do some initial damage, then lifting them to somewhere more out-of-the-way but from where they can do a little more damage once again.

Vaktathi
30-05-2009, 09:31
Ok, some more anecdotal and non-math based evidence, so I used 4 squads of these guys in an Apoc game the other day, because they seemed like they might actually be useful when their points cost didn't matter.

The first squad managed to boff its DS reroll and ended getting redirected to the other side of the board, the second squad came in and rolled ridiculously well (missing 2 shots out of 15 and then wounding with 10 of the 13 hits) and killed off a Chosen squad, another came in an plasma'd the rear of a Soul Grinder to death (and was then subsequently eaten by the other one in the next round) and the final one did about average and between 10 ST's with 2 plasma's killed 6 CSM's and was then subsequently assaulted by a mass of spawn, won the first round of combat and then was eaten the second round. None of the ST's survived to the next turn except the unit that ended up in the back field the whole game.

Overall they did ok, but much of that was due to ridiculous off-average rolling in a non-points competitive environment, and really didn't do anything a Leman Russ or Vet's couldn't have done (so pretty much the same as in the previous codex) but they were fun :D