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View Full Version : Does this leg smell south of cheese?



GreenSpeed
28-05-2009, 15:06
Its an aggressive fast vampire counts list. With a Lord on an abysmal terror and a light blood knight death star with a unit black knights and black coach for support. so heres the list

Lord
-Abyssmal Terror, Red Fury, Walking Death
-Dread Lance, Bloody Hauberk

Vampire
-Dread Knight, Walking Death
-BSB, Drakenhof Banner

Vampire
-Nightmare, master of the black arts
-Balefire spike, dispell scroll

Wight King
-barded steed, lance

10 skellies
10 skellies
10 skellies

6 Black Knights
-Champion, standard, Banner of the Barrows

5 Blood Knights
-Champion, standard, Banner of the Bloodkeep

Black Coach

So both vamps go into the blood knight unit and the coach pairs up with the black knights with wightking to make sure they can always march. Also black knights can hide behind the coach to avoid getting shot at. The lord flies around and picks his own fights, using cover as much as possible. I also have 8 pd to raise any knights I may loose on the way in.

So is it cheese or just very aggressive?

Gaargod
28-05-2009, 17:55
Its aggressive yes.

By the way, change the BSB onto the Wight King. He's got an extra wound with the same save, and you haven't given him any magic gear. Plus, it allows your vampire to take Book of Arkhan - which is great for a fast force.

Why skeletons particularly? Is it just that you have those models, cos generally i'd say if they're not being a larger unit with command, ghouls work better.

Do you really need to put both vampires into blood knights? They hit hard enough as it is, maybe you can put the non-BSB one into the black knights (assuming there's not a lot of terrain for those black knights to go through)

Spirit
28-05-2009, 22:56
Abyssmall terror..

My god thats brilliant!

As for the list, take 60 zombies over 30 skeletons any day, they can be raised above starting strength to tar pit FAR more effectively. And you gain d6+4 per casting. This at least makes your core usefull, at the moment your core does nothing but give 240 VP's to the enemy.

Take a varghulf over the black coach, it will help more in the context of your list.

DEFINITELY put the bsb onto the wight lord so you can tool the vamp up more.

I would say on the whole that the balefire spike + infinate hatred (remember the abyssal terror gains hatred if the lord has it) will do better than the dreadlance. Or at least just as well for the same points. This would also allow you to give the lord a 2+ save (flayed hauberk) and a 3+ ward save vs missiles ( wristbands of black gold). This makes him far more survivable. At the moment one lucky cannonball and 2/3 of the time your vamp will die. You wont need a ward save for combat because you can pick your fights.

The banner of the undying legion will serve the black knights better, making them US24 will auto break most units, much better than having to rely on killing loads.

The vamp with the balefire spike is a bit silly, no save and your putting him into combat, juyst give him the helm of command and run him behind your lines so he can boost any unit that needs WS6. Much less fragile because he wont be going near combat.

bob_the_small
28-05-2009, 23:00
Abysmal terror, that makes me giggle..

Spirit
28-05-2009, 23:10
Now i think about it, why not just drop the wight lord and take a zombie dragon/blood drinker combo. That would give hte army so much more punch.

kloudfire
29-05-2009, 02:03
how do you raise 4+d6 zombies? I though it was only 6 like the other unit when IoN is cast on them.

Gaargod
29-05-2009, 11:36
Nope, zombies are special :)

Its actually in their main entry. Having a corpse cart with unholy lodestone next to them is just funny, D6+5 per raise.

GreenSpeed
29-05-2009, 12:53
I agree with the zombies, at the moment i only have 20 zombies and all of those are bases with heads sticking out of the ground. so i'll pick some more of those up down the line.

I definitely like the idea of trading in the bloody hauberk and dreadlance for hatred and the 2+ armour and 3+ ward. will change that.

I could give the caster vamp a hellsteed and let him fly around whereever he is needed. Cant give him the helm because i want to keep at least one scroll in the list.

I really like the black coach over the varghul, i know the varghul is probably better in combat but the black coach is next to unkillable (unless you are facing dwarves or empire, but these races would kill a varghul just as easily.

I'll consider the dragon, I have both models, I just think wight kings are badass. I'll post an updated list in a bit.

GreenSpeed
29-05-2009, 13:11
Just realized Abyssmal terrors are only 135 points I thought they were 200, gonna edit the list accordingly

GreenSpeed
29-05-2009, 13:21
Lord
-Abyssmal Terror, Red Fury, Walking Death, Hatred
-balefire spike, Flayed Hauberk, Wristbands of gold, dispel scroll

Vampire
-Dread Knight, Walking Death
-book of arkhan

Vampire
-Nightmare, master of the black arts
-Helm of command, hellsteed

Wight King
-barded steed, lance
-bsb, Drakenhof banner

17 Skelletons
-champion, banner, warbanner
20 zombies
20 zombies

6 Black Knights
-Champion, standard, Banner of Undead legion

5 Blood Knights
-Champion, standard, Banner of the Bloodkeep

Black Coach

So with the extra points saved from the abyssmal terror I added a unit of skellies with a warbanner for extra combat res.

The wightking is now the bsb, allowing the vamp to carry the book of arkhan, giving the scroll to the lord means that the hellsteed vamp can take the helm of command and stay out of trouble.

Thanks for the advice guys, the list is much better as a result, now it comes down to whether a wight king and book of arkhan and abysmall terror are better than a zombie dragon?

Spirit
29-05-2009, 18:27
15 points for the black periapt on your lord is always good for the extra power/dispell dice when you need it. And he has 15 points spare!

I also find the talisman of lycni to be better than a hellsteed. because you can join units, a helsteed, while faster (the talisman can be march blocked) can never join a unit and so can be vulnerable a lot.

I always used to use a hellsteed but ive found the talisman to be that much easier to use. And 10 points cheaper.

Spirit
29-05-2009, 18:37
how do you raise 4+d6 zombies? I though it was only 6 like the other unit when IoN is cast on them.

Zombies have a special rule called "newly dead" which means that whenever IoN is cast on them, they get d6+4 rather than d6.

Frankly
31-05-2009, 01:14
Lord
-Abyssmal Terror, Red Fury, Walking Death, Hatred
-balefire spike, Flayed Hauberk, Wristbands of gold, dispel scroll

Vampire
-Dread Knight, Walking Death
-book of arkhan

Vampire
-Nightmare, master of the black arts
-Helm of command, hellsteed

Wight King
-barded steed, lance
-bsb, Drakenhof banner

17 Skelletons
-champion, banner, warbanner
20 zombies
20 zombies

6 Black Knights
-Champion, standard, Banner of Undead legion

5 Blood Knights
-Champion, standard, Banner of the Bloodkeep

Black Coach



Theres huge problems with this list, there is totally no supporting units to help you get into combat, nothing, no bats or wolves, meaning everything is going to have LOS to your Blood knights, ranged attacks, magic bat and flee units will lead them around the table, leaving only your black knights and or coach to support your lord in combat.

There is no use having the book on an character your never going to get it off in a list like this, you don't have enough of a magic phase to support it.

The helm of commandment is average in a list like this, since your wanting your vampire in combat asap.

The list lacks a solid magic defense.

Gokamok
31-05-2009, 09:51
I'll agree with Spirit that getting the Black Periapt into the list would likely be a good idea, but I'd prolly take it on the Hellsteed Vampire rather than the Lord, since your Lord has more different spells, and thus it's less likely that you'll want to save one of his PD as a dispel dice.

By RAW, Balefire Spike does not give +2 Strength when charging, so depending on the environment you play in, Sword of Might/Battle/Kings might be a better option.

I think there are 3 issues with the list that need to be adressed:

1) 17 Skeletons with a Warbanner are probably not going to do you much good, since your Vampires will often be too far away to support them. I'd suggest going with 3 units of Zombies and spending the points on something else.

2) As Frankly says, you should get a screening unit for your Blood Knights. A single unit of fast cavalry can force a charge from your Blood Knights, and will probably render them useless for a few turns. I find that a unit of 4 or so Fell Bats are perfect for this task.

3) Your Black Knights are too weak to take on a ranked unit from the front, unless supported by at least 1 character. I would recommend losing a bit of the Death Star approach, and placing the BSB (without barding) with the Black Knights. This would both give them the needed punch to autobreak a ranked unit head on, and will also mean that they don't get shot to pieces right away.

I will join the chorus telling you to replace the coach with a Varghulf. The coach will be out of range of your Knights after 1 turn of movement, where the Varghulf will just work a lot better with a fast force.