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Mars
27-12-2005, 12:37
I was thinking, Pathfinders all and well, but I figure the best place for a Markerlight will be on my Fire Warrior Shas'ui.

Basicly he gives his entire unit a +1 BS on a 4+. I'm just praying he'll have access to a hard-wired targetting array.

Although it was mentioned that only network markerlights give benefit to the firerer's own unit?

Although those Markerlight Drones also sound very good. Up to three Markerlights in the unit! Plus who'd bother with normal or shield drones in a Fire Warrior squad anyway? Except maybe to have 14 pulse carbines... :evilgrin:

On the other hand I'm guessing those Markerlight drones will have BS2. Unless they have targetting arrays as well, like the new railrifle drones.

Grrr, that's 3 dice, and each 4+ gives the unit +1 BS. Are Tau becoming the best marksmen in the game?

And against heavier (Marine) units, you can just use the markerlight hits for Vespids, Crisis suits and Raildrones! (Btw, what will their official name be? Raildrones sounds a bit ackward.)

Venerable Dred
27-12-2005, 13:28
I was thinking, Pathfinders all and well, but I figure the best place for a Markerlight will be on my Fire Warrior Shas'ui.

Basicly he gives his entire unit a +1 BS on a 4+. I'm just praying he'll have access to a hard-wired targetting array.

Although it was mentioned that only network markerlights give benefit to the firerer's own unit?

Although those Markerlight Drones also sound very good. Up to three Markerlights in the unit! Plus who'd bother with normal or shield drones in a Fire Warrior squad anyway? Except maybe to have 14 pulse carbines... :evilgrin:

Only Networked Markerlights can benefit the squad they are part of, so a Shas'ui with a Markerlight cannot affect his own squad. However if he had a Drone Controller and a Marker Drone or two, they the squad could use the hits from the Marker Drone's Networked Markerlights.

The downside, Marker Drones are very expensive (costing more than two Pathfinder for each drone). Further, only having a 50-50 chance of 'marking' their targets, a single Marker Drone will only be lighting up a target 1 out of every 2 trys. Pathfinders overcome this through volume of Markerlight fire.

Even so, I will be giving my FW Shas'uis Markerlights and Hardwired Target Locks.


Venerable Dred

Sephiroth
27-12-2005, 13:29
I was thinking, Pathfinders all and well, but I figure the best place for a Markerlight will be on my Fire Warrior Shas'ui.

Basicly he gives his entire unit a +1 BS on a 4+. I'm just praying he'll have access to a hard-wired targetting array.

Although it was mentioned that only network markerlights give benefit to the firerer's own unit?

You answered your own point. Pathfinders are still the best access to Markerlights, because:

1. Cheaper: 12pts for a Pathfinder with Markerlight, or 30pts for Shas'ui Team Leader with Markerlight?

2. Designation: Pathfinders are designed to get into position to aid other units. The rest of the Fire Warriors with the Markerlight Shas'ui can't move or he can't shoot (Heavy weapon), can't benefit from his Markerlight (infact, they lose a pulse rifle shot) and if you get him a Target Lock, that's even more points placed in a single squad!

Rlyehable
27-12-2005, 14:43
The downside, Marker Drones are very expensive (costing more than two Pathfinder for each drone). Further, only having a 50-50 chance of 'marking' their targets, a single Marker Drone will only be lighting up a target 1 out of every 2 trys. Pathfinders overcome this through volume of Markerlight fire.

Do the marker drones have better BS than gundrones? If the Markerdrones have the same BS as Gun Drones (and the markerlight is not twin-linked), then it will only mark the target on 1 in 3 tries (5+).

Pathfinders mark targets only 50% of the time (4+).

Psiweapon
27-12-2005, 15:10
You answered your own point. Pathfinders are still the best access to Markerlights, because:

1. Cheaper: 12pts for a Pathfinder with Markerlight, or 30pts for Shas'ui Team Leader with Markerlight?

2. Designation: Pathfinders are designed to get into position to aid other units. The rest of the Fire Warriors with the Markerlight Shas'ui can't move or he can't shoot (Heavy weapon), can't benefit from his Markerlight (infact, they lose a pulse rifle shot) and if you get him a Target Lock, that's even more points placed in a single squad!
If you have two units of firewarriors supporting each other, or a unit of firewarriors supporting another unit (doesn't matter which unit) you could use markerlight + HW multitracker to not lose shots.

Venerable Dred
27-12-2005, 16:21
Do the marker drones have better BS than gundrones? If the Markerdrones have the same BS as Gun Drones (and the markerlight is not twin-linked), then it will only mark the target on 1 in 3 tries (5+).

Pathfinders mark targets only 50% of the time (4+).

All true except as to the BS of the Marker Drone.

I believe that Brimstone mentioned this as well. Also the Marker Drone image floating around online also shows the drone being equipped with more than just a Networked Markerlight (same as the Sniper Drones) - hence the 50-50 chance To-Hit. ;)


Venerable Dred

Tom
27-12-2005, 23:06
If you have two units of firewarriors supporting each other, or a unit of firewarriors supporting another unit (doesn't matter which unit) you could use markerlight + HW multitracker to not lose shots.

Or, you could have about 1.5 times as many pulse shots.

my_name_is_tudor
27-12-2005, 23:09
Even so, I will be giving my FW Shas'uis Markerlights and Hardwired Target Locks.

exactly, you can do a markerlight chain, each unit leader marking for the next unit.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
28-12-2005, 17:00
I'd still rather leave it to my Pathfinders, of which I intend to have 2 units. Other, critical units, like Broadsides, may well get a Marker Drone each just to ensure they get the benefit they need!

Achilles
28-12-2005, 17:52
... where does it say a markerlight cant be used for the unit they are with? because they designate a target and resolve hits at the same time?

i thought networked markerlights ment they could ONLY work for the unit they belong to (like suits & vehicles). does anybody know EXACTLY what networked markerlights do?

erion
28-12-2005, 18:27
It's been a long-running discussion that since markerlights technically fire at the same time as the rest of the squad they're in, there was no way for the squad to make use of its own markerlights (even though this was never explicitly stated in the Tau Codex or the FAQ's).

The networked markerlight is going to resolve this controversy so that regular markerlights will not be able to designate for their own unit, but networked markerlights will.

Venerable Dred
28-12-2005, 18:35
... where does it say a markerlight cant be used for the unit they are with? because they designate a target and resolve hits at the same time?

It may not be explicitly stated in the current codex, but I do know for a fact that this is indeed the case for standard Markerlight hits in Codex: Tau Empire.


i thought networked markerlights ment they could ONLY work for the unit they belong to (like suits & vehicles). does anybody know EXACTLY what networked markerlights do?

No, Networked Markerlight specifically indicates that, unlike regular Markerlights, the owner/owner's unit may benefit from Network Markerlight hits. They can also 'mark' for other units the same as a regular Markerlight. I am sure that this extra ability (marking for the owner/owner's unit) is part of the reason why Marker Drones are so expensive. Otherwise they should be cheaper than a standard Markerlight.


Venerable Dred

Achilles
28-12-2005, 18:44
... i guess we're gonna see loads of markerlight death in the new codex..

hey its the only other flashlight with rules in the game! lol

the firewarrior reading its guidlines to achieving the greater good at night with its markerlight
the imperial guardsman reading his uplifting primes with his lasgun...
im getting huggy huggy feelings lol

Ubik_Lives
28-12-2005, 19:44
... where does it say a markerlight cant be used for the unit they are with? because they designate a target and resolve hits at the same time?

That's just it. The markerlight will be hitting at the same time as the pulse rifle shots. So when you've hit with the markerlight and it's ready to be used to give a bonus or fire a seeker missile, the squad has already resolved its shooting.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
28-12-2005, 19:48
Network Markerlights are EXACTLY like other Marker Lights, with the sole exception their Marker Beacon can be used by their own unit. Hence why the only examples I can think of right now are Marker Drones, and the Skyray. There might be others, but I can't remember right now!

More importantly, as they now offer a squad bonus, do you reckon that Devilfish bought for the squad would also get the bonus in BS?

Brimstone
28-12-2005, 19:52
That's just it. The markerlight will be hitting at the same time as the pulse rifle shots. So when you've hit with the markerlight and it's ready to be used to give a bonus or fire a seeker missile, the squad has already resolved its shooting.

Then you fire the Network Markerlight first and shoot with the rest of the squad second.

Edit - Mad Doc they only one you missed was the sniper drone spotter.

FireN.Brimstone
28-12-2005, 19:54
More importantly, as they now offer a squad bonus, do you reckon that Devilfish bought for the squad would also get the bonus in BS?

Naw, Devilfish are a sperate unit that is simply purchase from the same spot on the force org.

Hoshi No Koe
28-12-2005, 20:28
Wait a minute, does that mean it has been confirmed the marker drones are networked?
If they hit on 4+ or 5+ re-rolled, then their cost will be well justified. Very good for maxed out FW squads and for broadsides IMO.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
28-12-2005, 20:36
Indeed, they are Networked, though I hasten to add, according to my source. So it's near on 99% accurate, but it could always change!

And yes, they could be very helpful, if you stand still. Being Heavy, you cannot move and use one!

Brimstone
28-12-2005, 21:49
The Marker Drone does indeed have a network markerlight & targetting array

Mad Doc Grotsnik
28-12-2005, 22:29
Although the static nature of Marker Drones makes them ideal buddies for Broadsides....along with a Shield Drone counterpart! Mahahahahaha!

athamas
28-12-2005, 22:32
i think pathfinders and markerdrones are going to become comon place in static units,

i would expect to see small units of fire warriors with a marker light so that they can mark a unit for a crisis unit..

that and 2 small units of pathfinders, the problem will be if they need a devilfish still, if they dont then all will begreat...

Mad Doc Grotsnik
29-12-2005, 20:35
You know, your Pathfinders Shas'ui could always have a couple of Marker Drones. Just for fun!

Does make him a bit pricey, but with their relatively static nature (in that they don't have to move far to get out of dodge, just up to their Devilfish) it's a tempting proposition. It also means you can include some tasty Rail Rifles without impacting on the squads Markerlight count too much.

Hoshi No Koe
29-12-2005, 20:41
As tempting as the sound of adding more markerlights to pathfinders, it's going to make the unit in the pts range of a tooled up command squad... At 30pts a pop, their networked nature will be wasted as well.
I think marker drones will be best used on maxed out FW rifle squads, they'll be able to boost the unit's effectiveness so you can spend most of your other markerlight hits on other juicy stuff like boosting suits, tanks and lunching seekers.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
29-12-2005, 20:43
Not really wasted though, if you have Rail Rifles in the squad, as it means the Rail Rifles get the BS bonus, allowing the squad not only to light up a target, but potentially pin it from 36" away. And if not, well, two dead enemy is still two dead enemy! But like you said, they are a smidge pricey, so I guess play testing is required!

FireN.Brimstone
29-12-2005, 20:45
Although the static nature of Marker Drones makes them ideal buddies for Broadsides....along with a Shield Drone counterpart! Mahahahahaha!

The only problem is neither are exactly cheap, so you have to ask yourself, at what point am I spending too much points on drones for my static (since if you taking drones your not taking the Stabilizers) unit that already has twin-linked weapons?

Personally Stabilizers with a Leader with x2 Shield Drones would be the Broadside unit for me. Not that I'm really a fan of broadsides, I mean the have a great gun sure, but with out the Submunition rounds they lack diversity.

White Knight
29-12-2005, 21:01
Lack Diversity? Others might say they Retain Focus... ;)

Tom
29-12-2005, 21:44
Lack Diversity? Others might say they Retain Focus... ;)


That said, who's to rule out them ending up with a S6 AP4 Heavy1 Blast Twin-Linked submunition round for the eighty-eights sometime in the future?

Mars
30-12-2005, 09:51
Well, because than you'd have 9 twin-linked, move and fire, hard to kill, BS boosted Submunition shots per turn. At 72". Something tells me it ain't happening. I'm guessing Orks for one wouldn't like it, since they don't have the guns to kill those suits in the first place.

As for the Markerlight drones, I'm a bit stumped: they sound lovely, but paying another 60 points + team leader will make those Fire Warrior squads redicilously expensive.
Than again, if they hit reasonably, they'll always be well used: for 190 points you get 12 BS5 S5 shots. And even if the Fire Warriors get thinned out, you can still use those Markerlights on other units.

But I wouldn't use them on Pathfinders: if anything, that unit should get gun drones, to increase survivability. They're already loosing a Markerlight for every wound taken, Markerlight Drones would only make them more vulnerable. And I can think of better stuff to use those Markerlights on than 3 railrifles.

Also, will the new rules indicate larger units, to maximise Markerlight effectiveness? I was thinking of getting a unit of 6 Vespids, but with the new Markerlight rules, the bigger the unit the better.

Khelben
30-12-2005, 10:25
That said, who's to rule out them ending up with a S6 AP4 Heavy1 Blast Twin-Linked submunition round for the eighty-eights sometime in the future?

That would probably be Brimstone. ;)

Hoshi No Koe
30-12-2005, 12:27
Yeah, the new ML rules do push you towards maxing out your units if you want to make the most out of them.