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ghost21
29-05-2009, 23:04
i have it on good authority the new race will be cathay , so looks like no chaos dwarfs unfortunately,
however ive seen nothing ive just been told who they are,

weather my source is accurate is for time to tell however he was right about an additional character for high elves

if the pieman can confirm or deny this is upto him * puts out cherry pie*

PeG
29-05-2009, 23:12
Any word on when? We have confirmation that skaven will be next and it doesnt seem like they will be out until at the earliest September-October.

Emeraldw
29-05-2009, 23:13
In the old thread Cathay was probably the odds on favorite to be it. Here's hoping it is.

CaliforniaGamer
29-05-2009, 23:46
can throw another anon source of info I have to same effect(Cathay). Although my sources wont elaborate on even a single troop type!

someone needs to break. I will bribe people with national currency of their choosing if they provide details and pics to back it up.

spacewolf_sven
29-05-2009, 23:49
damn-I was hoping for araby

speedygogo
29-05-2009, 23:52
If it is Cathay, I'll be disappointed. I've would have rather seen nippon, the moot, or chaos dwarfs. You can pretty decently proxy cathay with dark elf. I not sure how having a human version of Druchi helps warhammer.

Emeraldw
29-05-2009, 23:52
can throw another anon source of info I have to same effect(Cathay). Although my sources wont elaborate on even a single troop type!

someone needs to break. I will bribe people with national currency of their choosing if they provide details and pics to back it up.

Nah, I like it this way. I can guess all I want and be surprised! :D

I'll postpone my empire army till I hear more with this news, even if it is a year or more away. Especially if there are Assassins :D

guillaume
29-05-2009, 23:53
mmm...

so much for the "we will never do cathay" from GW.

I am still not convinced, sorry, until I see evidence of it...

forthegloryofkazadekrund
30-05-2009, 00:12
I suppose it would make sense as they are expanding more into asia

Nephilim of Sin
30-05-2009, 00:16
I wouldn't mind either Cathay or Araby. It would be the first time that I was actually interested enough to take a human army. I just cannot stand the other two we have.

Although, I don't see this as being the 'space marines' of Warhammer, or whatever the original thread stated.

Verm1s
30-05-2009, 00:21
If they include ninjas I'll be very upset.

If this is true, anyone up for a little idle speculation on what to expect? Regular grunts based on historical chinese, obviously. Astromancers, if the OK fluff is anything to go by. Fearsome blackpowder artillery. Temple dogs? Oriental-style dragons?

Batwings
30-05-2009, 00:24
'i have it on good authority the new race will be cathay'

No you don't.

If you have it at all, you have it on bad authority.

There is no new race coming within the foreseeable future.

chaos0xomega
30-05-2009, 00:29
damnit, I really wanted fishmen... oh... wait... :P

heychadwick
30-05-2009, 00:47
*sigh* I hope it isn't Cathay. I have to admit that it just sounds boring to me. The only good news to having a Cathay army done is that it's out near the Chaos Dwarf lands and might lead to someone doing CD's.

steppingonyou
30-05-2009, 01:07
say what?
lol

Fechik
30-05-2009, 01:18
If they include ninjas I'll be very upset.

If this is true, anyone up for a little idle speculation on what to expect? Regular grunts based on historical chinese, obviously. Astromancers, if the OK fluff is anything to go by. Fearsome blackpowder artillery. Temple dogs? Oriental-style dragons?

I'm always up for a little speculation. This is what I speculate (past what you have stated); Dragon-Emperor, warrior monks, of course historical Chinese theme and therefore a Human Horde army.

And I'll be extremely upset as well if they include ninja's... Except for the fact that in the Skaven Army book, about Clan Eshin, it says "During that long period in contact with the mysterious human cultures of Inja, Cathay, and Nippon, the Skaven had learned much, especially in the arts of stealth and assassination." So, who knows, we can probably expect to see something stealthy.

Verm1s
30-05-2009, 01:25
Good, good.

Now how much do you want to bet it is true? :p

Einholt
30-05-2009, 01:31
I wouldn't be surprised if this was as mentioned the human Druchii. A mix of human theme with a heavy orient influence, elite troops and some magical/technology in the form of gunpowder with a kick. Probably like an empire Druchii skaven fusion. I also would not be surprised if they had monks, samurai and ninjas by grouping nippon as a very close ally. This is warhammer after all and the relationships of china and japan in our world can easily be turned in fantasy.

Mind you Samurai, Ninjas and a Dragon emperor just might make this the Space Marines of fantasy. Given how recently Chaos was gutted.

Vermin-thing
30-05-2009, 01:46
At lest it's not CD's.

Anyways this is a time for some epic wish listing, and constructive discussion about the army of Cathy. I for one would like to see, in terms of units, Temple Guardians in the from a giant stone lions or dragons as a rare choice. Perhaps they would have Varghulf stats maybe or weaker stats, but 2 for one rare choice.

I also hope that the core solders are 12 or so points, and on par with Saurus or even better.

Ninjas would be nice as unit upgrades instead of a unit champion or perhaps a non minimum hero choice. Lets say, lower stats than the DE assasin, and less silly equipment than the Skaven one, but more abilities like shadow stepping (Ninja moves X inches in one direction depending on the casting value, if the SS takes the ninja into combat it counts as a charge, the user gains ASF or other buffs depending on the spell in question). Or casting buff spells, like add poison with 'lotus sting', or killing blow with 'sharpen blades'. These are just a few ideas, but I'd like to see what other stuff you guys can come up with.

Orcboy_Phil
30-05-2009, 02:03
All I want is a monkey warrior. I'll call him Goku.

Max_Killfactor
30-05-2009, 02:14
Cool if true. Cathay is what I would have guessed. Hopefully we get a real confirmation soon. I think the original thread mentioned GD Chicago being their coming out party, but that doesn't make much sense considering that we haven't heard anything 'official' on Skaven yet.

kylek2235
30-05-2009, 02:35
At lest it's not CD's.

Anyways this is a time for some epic wish listing, and constructive discussion about the army of Cathy. I for one would like to see, in terms of units, Temple Guardians in the from a giant stone lions or dragons as a rare choice. Perhaps they would have Varghulf stats maybe or weaker stats, but 2 for one rare choice.

I also hope that the core solders are 12 or so points, and on par with Saurus or even better.

Ninjas would be nice as unit upgrades instead of a unit champion or perhaps a non minimum hero choice. Lets say, lower stats than the DE assasin, and less silly equipment than the Skaven one, but more abilities like shadow stepping (Ninja moves X inches in one direction depending on the casting value, if the SS takes the ninja into combat it counts as a charge, the user gains ASF or other buffs depending on the spell in question). Or casting buff spells, like add poison with 'lotus sting', or killing blow with 'sharpen blades'. These are just a few ideas, but I'd like to see what other stuff you guys can come up with.

All of this would be great if the army in question was Nippon/Japan, who had small heavily trained armies. China/Cathay was famous for massive blocks of infantry ie 4pt per model S3 spearmen sort of thing. Granted they have plenty of mythological beasts to pull from.

ICLRK625
30-05-2009, 02:45
All of this would be great if the army in question was Nippon/Japan, who had small heavily trained armies. China/Cathay was famous for massive blocks of infantry ie 4pt per model S3 spearmen sort of thing. Granted they have plenty of mythological beasts to pull from.

China was also more famous for having more effective weapons, and actually drilling their armies. Japanese armies weren't well trained (the bulk of them at least), in fact, it often came down to the quality of the equipment Samurai had (infinitely better then the peasants, folded steel, actual armor, etc.) and less to do with their training (of course, Samurai actually had training, which contributed in no small part). China actually trained and drilled it's troops, relying less on individual combat, and more on the big picture, hence the reason Japanese invasions were regularly repelled by Chinese peasants with Spears with feathers tied on them.

Vermin-thing
30-05-2009, 03:05
I failed to mention that I would like to see a mix of Cathy, and Nippon since that would kill two very cool birds with one stone. Perhaps big blocks of Clan rat type troops, but well equipped for the most part, supported by the more skilled Nippon solders.

So 4 point spearmen with light armor/shield. Stats: 4/3/3/3/3/1/4/1/6. In terms of options maybe ether Katanas: -1 save(1 point) or Chinese Short swords: + 2 save instead of +1 for HW (1 point), and Shield. Normal command, and a ninja for XXX amount of points. (say you can have only one ninja for every X character).

Dragon Guard: 13 points, Chinese pike: fight in 2 ranks, 2 handed, +1 str, Katana, heavy armor/shield. Stats: 4/5/4/3/4/1/5/2/8. Equipment options: Swap pike for two handed Katana (great weapon), -1 save.
(-3 save total) Upgrade to dragon mail: 4+ save, 6+ ward.

Emeraldw
30-05-2009, 03:35
I failed to mention that I would like to see a mix of Cathy, and Nippon since that would kill two very cool birds with one stone. Perhaps big blocks of Clan rat type troops, but well equipped for the most part, supported by the more skilled Nippon solders.

So 4 point spearmen with light armor/shield. Stats: 4/3/3/3/3/1/4/1/6. In terms of options maybe ether Katanas: -1 save(1 point) or Chinese Short swords: + 2 save instead of +1 for HW, and Shield (1 point). Normal command, and a ninja for XXX amount of points. (say you can have only one ninja for every X character).

Dragon Guard: 13 points, Chinese pike: fight in 2 ranks, 2 handed, +1 str, Katana, heavy armor/shield. Stats: 4/5/4/3/4/1/5/2/8. Equipment options: Swap pike for two handed Katana (great weapon), -1 save.
(-3 save total) Upgrade to dragon mail: 4+ save, 6+ ward.

Well the Cathayan Longsword from the OK list gives +1 Ini and +1 WS.

AP great weapons? Katana's are cool but they could go with the whole anime samurai route and give a unit ASF (Drawing the sword at extreme speeds) in the first round of combat :D

Miami
30-05-2009, 03:44
To be honest, I am not in the least interested in a Cathayan army. I want to play Wahammer FANTASY, not Warhammer Fake History Lesson. Cathay was created to reflect China (and Nippon to Japan) as to easily create believable fluff that could be quickly churned out. If they were to attempt to make an army based on what has been told of Cathay, they'd either have to alter a lot of the current Cathayan fluff, or deal with an army that would be comparatively boring to the other Fantasy Armies.

Alric
30-05-2009, 03:47
If it is Cathay, I'll be disappointed. I've would have rather seen nippon, the moot, or chaos dwarfs. You can pretty decently proxy cathay with dark elf. I not sure how having a human version of Druchi helps warhammer.

Don't be surprised if it's both Cathay and Chaos Dwarfs simultaneous or back to back. Both would be a welcome introduction.

The Cathay fan list is very good btw.

mweaver
30-05-2009, 03:49
Cathay doesn't interest me a whole lot. But I suppose there might be the odd model worth having (artillery and monsters, perhaps).

Of course, I say that assuming the human troops would look like Medieval Chinese troops, which might not be the case at all.

Alric
30-05-2009, 03:51
To be honest, I am not in the least interested in a Cathayan army. I want to play Wahammer FANTASY, not Warhammer Fake History Lesson. Cathay was created to reflect China (and Nippon to Japan) as to easily create believable fluff that could be quickly churned out. If they were to attempt to make an army based on what has been told of Cathay, they'd either have to alter a lot of the current Cathayan fluff, or deal with an army that would be comparatively boring to the other Fantasy Armies.

Theres plenty of mythology in asian cultures to make it a fantasy army. It would be more fantasy colored than an Empire or Bretonnian army at least.

Nephilim of Sin
30-05-2009, 04:13
To be honest, I am not in the least interested in a Cathayan army. I want to play Wahammer FANTASY, not Warhammer Fake History Lesson. .

Oh, how disappointed you must be then, since every Warhammer Army is based on a historical equivalent. :rolleyes:

Sorry, but I don't get the idea that because it is Asian in theme, it is not fantasy (not saying you said that, but that is what a lot of others gripe about), or that it would have to completely and accurately reflect every aspect of Asian warfare. It doesn't have to, and I have no doubt that GW could make it something of their own. GW could easily make Cathay reminiscent of China, without having to cut and paste and make Cathay into China, if that makes sense.

I also would welcome a Cathay army than say, a Fishman army. But I will be happy with anything that expands the Warhammer Universe, since there is so little we know about certain areas.

EDIT:

Of course, with my luck, watch the Cathay army be Fishmen. Then I would be mad.

Brother Siccarius
30-05-2009, 04:20
i have it on good authority the new race will be cathay , so looks like no chaos dwarfs unfortunately,
however ive seen nothing ive just been told who they are,

weather my source is accurate is for time to tell however he was right about an additional character for high elves

if the pieman can confirm or deny this is upto him * puts out cherry pie*


can throw another anon source of info I have to same effect(Cathay). Although my sources wont elaborate on even a single troop type!

someone needs to break. I will bribe people with national currency of their choosing if they provide details and pics to back it up.

I have to wonder how much of this is just rumors making the circut back to us. Like the people who go on here and see something, and then go on Bell of Lost Souls and see the same thing, say "it must be true because BoLS is reliable", not realizing that they get their rumors from Warseer.

I mean, how much of this goes out on the net, bounces around in a few forums for a while, and comes back as a new rumor or confirmation. It's like that Skaven Wishlist that's popped up a couple dozen times on here, constantly coming back as from "Reliable Sources" despite being debunked a while ago. Someone else inevitably siezes on it, and I have to see it again and again on The Underempire as "New Rumor from Warseer" it bounces around there a bit, gets mentioned on a new thread, someone sees it, and it comes right back here to warseer as a confirmed rumor. It'd circular rumors.

I'll tell you what, we we see something more than the absolute bare bones rumors, I'll get exicted. So far we know there's supposed to be a new army that's known but new, has troops and heroes, and is supposed to change everything. Whoopty do, Every army in Warhammer is described as being "new" when it gets redone or done for the first time, every army in Warhammer has heroes and units of foot sloggers, every single army has been toted as the game changer, We know absolutely nothing about it. It's empty rumors with no meat to them what-so-ever. It's as valid as saying that Wood Elves will be redone soon, because there's no date or time limit on soon. This new army could happen at any time and the people who gave the rumors could just pop up and appply this very basic template on anything that Gw produces in the next 20 years.

ICLRK625
30-05-2009, 04:22
I have to wonder how much of this is just rumors making the circut back to us. Like the people who go on here and see something, and then go on Bell of Lost Souls and see the same thing, say "it must be true because BoLS is reliable", not realizing that they get their rumors from Warseer.

I mean, how much of this goes out on the net, bounces around in a few forums for a while, and comes back as a new rumor or confirmation. It's like that Skaven Wishlist that's popped up a couple dozen times on here, constantly coming back as from "Reliable Sources" despite being debunked a while ago. Someone else inevitably siezes on it, and I have to see it again and again on The Underempire as "New Rumor from Warseer" it bounces around there a bit, gets mentioned on a new thread, someone sees it, and it comes right back here to warseer as a confirmed rumor. It'd circular rumors.

Whatever people want to believe, it doesn't change anything really. I'll still sleep tonight at least.

Vermin-thing
30-05-2009, 04:37
Well the Cathayan Longsword from the OK list gives +1 Ini and +1 WS.

AP great weapons? Katana's are cool but they could go with the whole anime samurai route and give a unit ASF (Drawing the sword at extreme speeds) in the first round of combat :D

If they were to follow the OK book, + 1 Ini, +1 WS might be OP on already skilled troops with above average Ini. So I was thinking that the folded steel idea would be better, in other words AP.

The ASF idea might be good on another unit though. I'm thinking a unit of samurai with bamboo armor (5+) that gets ASF on the first round of combat.

RED9335
30-05-2009, 04:42
I sincerely Hope that it does happen to be Cathay I feel like it will be good for the game and the extra variety will be nice as well when playing against others, I am tired of the 3 elves, 2 human races and three chaos, I dont want it to come off as me talking down about them because I love the Dark elves have played them for years, I just like the injection of an actually NEW army to increase the variety and make the Warhammer World an actual world and not just a Warhammer Hemisphere. My idea for a cathayan unit, would be a skirmishing unit armed with the large man portable Rockets the Chinese Had and used against the Mongols.

Brother Siccarius
30-05-2009, 04:43
I never quite understood the look that samurai ended up with. They actually more better armor and were much more impressive than what's become the "traditional" cinematic look tells us.

RED9335
30-05-2009, 04:54
wonder if they will base a character off of Mushashi, what in the the heck would we do then. probably could kill SkullTaker and Chakax at the same time, with his two handed great weapon, aka the boat oar. Seriously he would be a monster that few could face and live to talk after.

Gorthaur
30-05-2009, 04:56
Well, I definately prefer Cathay over Araby, hopefully we see some cool siege weapons and rockets.

Brother Siccarius
30-05-2009, 05:39
wonder if they will base a character off of Mushashi, what in the the heck would we do then. probably could kill SkullTaker and Chakax at the same time, with his two handed great weapon, aka the boat oar. Seriously he would be a monster that few could face and live to talk after.

Yeah, that's the kind of thing I was talking about. The real stories trump the anime/cinematic look without needless special effects.


Well, I definately prefer Cathay over Araby, hopefully we see some cool siege weapons and rockets.
Cannons, Arquebuss, repeating crossbows, rockets (Which were deployed more along the lines of a bolt thrower in warhammer, as both break up static lines/blocks of infantry and cavalry).
Mines and grenades if they wanted to get really interesting with the rules.

sirbone
30-05-2009, 07:13
I look forward eagerly to seeing this new army. I probably won't collect them, but new models and artwork and fluff is always interesting to me.

RED9335
30-05-2009, 07:48
They could also possibly field (This is a dark thing though) A chemical warfare chariot, the ancient chinese were the first pioneers of it they filled bellows up with crushed Lime powder, calcium oxide i think its called, and drove through hostile, rebellious towns and villages pumping the dust out for the locals to breathe in. so I can see that on a chariot or some kind of wagon with maybe a scatter die thing for wind direction? the skaven and nurgiggles have disease based things, seems plausible. Also, they had a tactic called The Human Wave, like a mass attack rule would be cool.

Jedi152
30-05-2009, 08:08
If they include ninjas I'll be very upset.

If this is true, anyone up for a little idle speculation on what to expect? Regular grunts based on historical chinese, obviously. Astromancers, if the OK fluff is anything to go by. Fearsome blackpowder artillery. Temple dogs? Oriental-style dragons?
People really need to get out of the mindset that Cathay = China and Nippon = Japan. Nowhere has this been stated. It's just people assuming such based on the names.

GW really are opening a can of worms with the wapanese fanboys with any oriental army. Remember when someone dared suggest than a Cathay army might have handguns in the background thread?


'i have it on good authority the new race will be cathay'

No you don't.

If you have it at all, you have it on bad authority.

There is no new race coming within the foreseeable future.
Thank you Batwings.

RED9335
30-05-2009, 08:20
I dont think anyone on this thread is a Teenime fanboy, at least we havent had any yet. But I do find it perfectly fine and reasonable to have asian warfare culture inspired units for the cathayans if they come out. The Asiatic people of the "East" of the warhammer world have been pretty much based on a mixture of real world Asian themes, Cathay is not China, Nippon doesnt equal Jappan. I know this and so does everyone else, this is a speculation/is it cathay? and if it is what unit types do you think it will field thread, We are just throwing out ideas and opinions, thats all. Someone could easily say they could field the Da'Vinci tank or a Swiss Pike style formation with halberdiers mixed in every 3 rank, etc. etc.

kormas
30-05-2009, 08:25
if it is cathy or cathey/nippon then i hope that it wi NOT follow anime stereotypes because that woudl create an army totaly without character.

i am hoping for it to follow the idea of the ancient chinese army with some added mythical monsters to create the fantisy element about it

bomblu
30-05-2009, 08:28
Well, it looks like we'll be seeing a new thread like this every two weeks, to be closed down after 2 days...

We've seen a POSSIBLE concept sketch of 'something new' (i will not assume it is a fishman, for it doesnt look too much like a fish...and i'm a diver so i know very well what fish look like). We heard that Forge World might be making Chaos Dwarves. So we can say it's out of the question, there's still cathay and all the orient, and ****load of other armies GW can come up with.

If a new armie's coming out, i'd like to read about it and possibly make an army if i like it. If they're not making anything new, then i'm hoping the next-gen of armybooks and models are going to blow us away as the lack of info on anything that's going on and the big gap between releases is disturbing, especially when joined with the price-rise.

EDIT : 600th post...now i'll go back to studying Giotto :D

Aflo
30-05-2009, 09:05
Oh, Cathay *sigh*


Can't say I'm a fan of the idea. The feel of Warhammer fantasy has always been European based for me, from various timeframes.


You've got the Undead Khemri from Ancient Egypt (not European but close), the Beasts/Chaos Warrior-Norse/Orcs from Dark Age/Celtic Europe, Dwarfs from Viking Scandinavia (mixed with some classic high fantasy) the Brets from Medeval France, the Empire from Rennaisance Holy Roman Empire and the Vampire Counts from a backward Balkan state somewhere (no offence intended).


The 'look' of the lizardmen is also prevelent in European culture (atleast in the timespan of the Empire) ala plundered Aztecs and Incas except with a pretty cool fantasy spin.


You could mention how Elves are clearly non-European. Well apart from the fact they're another fantasy staple Elves look very alike to the Mythical idea of Atlantis in appearance and a mixture of classical Greece and late Roman Empire.


So you see for me, adding in a far Eastern Oriental army just isn't in fitting with what I see as Warhammer. Not to mention the whole doom and gloom vibe the main 'protagonist' of the Warhammer story, the Empire has going on for it - bringing in a new bastion of good diminishes the epicness of the Empires last, futile war against Chaos.


But I'm probably getting all worked up over nothing - I guess the Skaven book will bring the whole Oriental theme into the mythos through stories and timelines if the rumours are true.

Suicide Messiah
30-05-2009, 10:57
Egypt close to Europe? On a map maybe but as far as style and culture go they are way off.

I cant see warhammer getting an anime race either. All the top brass* at GW are into historic stuff. According to this months WD Dave Andrews has a keen interest in the study of flags :wtf:. It's well known the Perry's are reenactors and i'd bet the rest of them watch documentaries more than cartoon network.

*I dont mean the gus in teh boardroom but the designers.

inq.serge
30-05-2009, 11:04
I really really really hope that cathay and nippon ain't human.

Army of ghoul-people is my first preference, since one of the vamp bloodlines went there.

Fish-men, monkey-men, Living stone-men, spirit-people, anything but humans!
Why does Chinese and Japanese have to be humans when Scots get to be orks, Teutons Bestmen, Celts wood elves, Egyptians undead, Russians/Scandinavians Dwarves, Mongols ogres and Maya/Aztec/Inca lizardmen?

I believe that the new thing is Sartossa.

Messiah
30-05-2009, 11:09
China was also more famous for having more effective weapons, and actually drilling their armies. Japanese armies weren't well trained (the bulk of them at least), in fact, it often came down to the quality of the equipment Samurai had (infinitely better then the peasants, folded steel, actual armor, etc.) and less to do with their training (of course, Samurai actually had training, which contributed in no small part). China actually trained and drilled it's troops, relying less on individual combat, and more on the big picture, hence the reason Japanese invasions were regularly repelled by Chinese peasants with Spears with feathers tied on them.

Mainland China also had better quality steel available than Japan (mind you not as good as Europe in the same period, but better than the steel on the Japanese islands) and hence had no need to fold the steel. So, their better equipment played a part too.

Aflo
30-05-2009, 11:18
Egypt close to Europe? On a map maybe but as far as style and culture go they are way off.





Yeh it was tenous :p

What I meant was that Ancient Egyptian culture has always been 'known' to Europeans, be it through trade (prevelent through many time periods) or ancient diplomacy (with Greeks/Romans).

Certainly it's much more relevant to the European world than Fuedal China/Japan.

BobtheInquisitor
30-05-2009, 11:23
Well, I'm very excited. I'd love an army full of monks, dragons, temple dogs and Lo Pan-style wizards. If there are any "not-Al Leong" models, I'll buy a score of them for me, my brother and my friends. He was our childhood hero.


To be honest, I am not in the least interested in a Cathayan army. I want to play Wahammer FANTASY, not Warhammer Fake History Lesson. Cathay was created to reflect China (and Nippon to Japan) as to easily create believable fluff that could be quickly churned out. If they were to attempt to make an army based on what has been told of Cathay, they'd either have to alter a lot of the current Cathayan fluff, or deal with an army that would be comparatively boring to the other Fantasy Armies.

Have you read any of the (admittedly limited) fluff on Cathay? Not fantasy? There's already:

The Immortal Dragon Emperor
A Monkey-King (or is a Journey to the West reference not Fantasy because it doesn't have elves in it?)
Warrior Monks
Celestial Mages
Dragons
Elementals (maybe ret-conned)
Temple Guardians/ Foo Dogs (I'm pretty sure this was mentioned in the fluff somewhere)
Tigermen

The Great Bastion was built to keep out the forces of Chaos.

I could go on.

Cathay is about as "Fake History" as Bretonnia or the Empire. There is plenty of room for fantastical elements in the army.

Condottiere
30-05-2009, 11:27
Mainland China also had better quality steel available than Japan (mind you not as good as Europe in the same period, but better than the steel on the Japanese islands) and hence had no need to fold the steel. So, their better equipment played a part too.Japanese swords were exported as far as India. Not the normal fate for Chinese ones.

Sasori_jap
30-05-2009, 12:25
Well Cathay is most likely looking at the current info around the web. I cant understand some people saying they hate it without seeing any models or artwork...

Condottiere
30-05-2009, 12:53
Exactly when is the supposed launch of this new army?

Max_Killfactor
30-05-2009, 12:55
I really really really hope that cathay and nippon ain't human.

Same. If they are human I probably won't buy them (I play a human irl, it's boring). If they are some sort of Mandragontiger or Manbearpig, then I will spend far more than I should.

steffandevil
30-05-2009, 12:56
I can see fantastic ways to develop the idea and a brilliant, cool-lookign army for Cathay...

HOWEVER - I agree with previous posters. It's rubbish. Completely different part of the world. Difficult to relate to the races we already have and basically I'm having a strop because I want Chaos Dwarves. Simple.

ICLRK625
30-05-2009, 13:16
Mainland China also had better quality steel available than Japan (mind you not as good as Europe in the same period, but better than the steel on the Japanese islands) and hence had no need to fold the steel. So, their better equipment played a part too.

Yep, folded steel is actually a compromise more so then an art. Japan has incredibly poor natural resources, and when compared to mainland Asia and European Damascus steel, it's not even a comparison.

Japanese fanboys love to talk about folded steel though, but it's not comparable to Chinese steel, and not even in the same league as European and Middle Eastern.


Japanese swords were exported as far as India. Not the normal fate for Chinese ones.

That has little to do with the quality of the sword itself, but the quality of the design (if that makes any sense). Katana's are an effective design (although many argue that the Dao or Jian is a better weapon, which are Chinese), but made of poor steel (folded until it has actual strength). Of course, this is mostly moot, as the Sword is far from the most effective weapon (although easily the most romanticized).

Also, if anybodie's interested, many consider the Macana to be the most effective sword ever, and that's South American in design.

Condottiere
30-05-2009, 13:34
Katana discussions usually never end well, which is one reason not to get sucked into too deeply.

Grontik
30-05-2009, 13:47
Well I see this thread getting squashed like the others. I just wanted to say that I also see someone posting the real news and after so many cries of "Wolf!" getting the cold shoulder. It looks like until GW actually comes out with anything then it will all be considered speculation. And after some thought my preference of Araby seems unlikely as there is already a desert based army. I'm cool with Cathay though even if I won't bother with it until after I collect my Skaven horde from scratch.

prelude_to_war
30-05-2009, 13:58
What I meant was that Ancient Egyptian culture has always been 'known' to Europeans, be it through trade (prevelent through many time periods) or ancient diplomacy (with Greeks/Romans).

Certainly it's much more relevant to the European world than Fuedal China/Japan.

But it was through trade/exploration in the Far East that yielded noodles! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noodles)

Personally I reserve judgement on anything until models are revealed. If the army looks good (and plays well), history/fluff become less critical.

mattschuur
30-05-2009, 13:59
Which of the following armies have actual models right now? Cathay or Araby? The answer is Araby for warmaster, in fact they just came out about a year ago. It seems to make more sense that since GW made a little Araby army that they'd probably make a big Araby army. Remember also, if they do make a Cathay army, fluffwise who do they fight other than Ogres, Chaos and DE?

Araby is easier to make with potential units already partially designed for a different system, concept models already made at a smaller scale and established fluff where they fight more than 2 or 3 existing armies (empire, Bretonian in "crusades", TK, O&G, DE, VC, Lizardmen and with a little help they could fight dwarves.

However, i also wouldn't be surprised if they do a Mercenary army and call it a Tilean/Estalian princes army. That would be cool to. But my money is on Araby.


matt schuur

Messiah
30-05-2009, 14:03
Katana discussions usually never end well, which is one reason not to get sucked into too deeply.

We had a really good discussion going in the old thread, between myself (blacksmith and former practitioner of kendo and aikido and practitioner of the german longsword) and another sword-nut, was that you ICLRK625?

I could explain again about pattern-welding and reasons for doing it if you like?

Hochdorf
30-05-2009, 14:23
There are plenty of races closer to home - Araby, Kislev, Chaos Dwarfs - that should take priority. I really don't think Cathay would fit into the feel of the Warhammer world. We don't need a Warhammer army to corresppond with every historical region of the real world. Even Lizardmen and Ogre Kingdoms were a big stretch for me. They just don't have that classic old world gothic Warhammer feel. East Asian armies would be even worse. The World's Edge Mountains should be exactly what their name implies in my opinion.

But, if they do have to do Cathay, please please base it China, not Japan/anime/fanboy/otaku nerdery.

Condottiere
30-05-2009, 14:25
Anyway, it's illogical not to choose Araby for the new army range, geographically they are in the neighbourhood, and European culture is more closely intertwined with it. Plus, we'd get most of the Arabic cultural references.

|iG| Vertigo
30-05-2009, 14:33
Even Lizardmen and Ogre Kingdoms were a big stretch for me. They just don't have that classic old world gothic Warhammer feel.

You mean that Tolkien rip-off feel? I've always felt that the Lizardmen were a much-needed breath of fresh, comparatively original air.

ICLRK625
30-05-2009, 14:42
We had a really good discussion going in the old thread, between myself (blacksmith and former practitioner of kendo and aikido and practitioner of the german longsword) and another sword-nut, was that you ICLRK625?

I could explain again about pattern-welding and reasons for doing it if you like?

Haha, I'm no sword nut, but I studied history prior to law, so I know more then most would on it.

This is getting off topic though, so I apologize.


Anyway, it's illogical not to choose Araby for the new army range, geographically they are in the neighbourhood, and European culture is more closely intertwined with it. Plus, we'd get most of the Arabic cultural references.

And it's more interesting.

Emeraldw
30-05-2009, 15:02
If they were to follow the OK book, + 1 Ini, +1 WS might be OP on already skilled troops with above average Ini. So I was thinking that the folded steel idea would be better, in other words AP.

The ASF idea might be good on another unit though. I'm thinking a unit of samurai with bamboo armor (5+) that gets ASF on the first round of combat.

Well, they are still human. Average human ini is 3 right? elites might have 4, so with the swords they match elves and said swords might only be on elites. Same with WS.


And it's more interesting

I respectfully disagree.

Lotl Botl
30-05-2009, 15:10
i think they chose cathay (if they do indeed) because it expands the fluff of the game a lot lot A nd there are a lot more cooler and different things u can do with cathay: spirits, living stone stone statues, monkey warriors, new dragons, ninjas, samurais (butcherd that and i know thats nippon but they can kinda do wht they want), fighting monk, pyrotechnic stuff, because araby is still in the old worl we know they can't really do something revolutionary with them.

Gimp
30-05-2009, 15:13
can throw another anon source of info I have to same effect(Cathay). Although my sources wont elaborate on even a single troop type!

someone needs to break. I will bribe people with national currency of their choosing if they provide details and pics to back it up.

I want 1 million Zimbabwean Dollars :D

Ubercarp
30-05-2009, 15:17
Since this is leaning more towards the speculative anyway, I thought I'd interject a thought I had while mowing the grass this morning.
Perhaps the new 'race' could be a fantasy version of inquisitors. The fluff has been around a long time. It could be they finally decided to figure out how to make a small model count army work in WFB. One poster in the last thread speculated on a force to 'mirror' deamons. In the dark, gothic world of warhammer, a grim inquisitor force would be more of a mirror than an angelic one.

An inquisitor force could be composed of powerful characters, mounted core for flank attacks on, and various henchmen. Wizards and flagellents could even make an appearance. This could even be a way to use the townspeople that were rumored to be direct only models. They could represent mis-informants that could cause an enemy unit to change directions or even move towards their deployment zone. This kind of army would have small numbers of powerful, fast moving models, thus being the 'space marines' of the warhammer world.
Anyway, that's the thought I had while mowing.

ICLRK625
30-05-2009, 15:18
i think they chose cathay (if they do indeed) because it expands the fluff of the game a lot lot A nd there are a lot more cooler and different things u can do with cathay: spirits, living stone stone statues, monkey warriors, new dragons, ninjas, samurais (butcherd that and i know thats nippon but they can kinda do wht they want), fighting monk, pyrotechnic stuff, because araby is still in the old worl we know they can't really do something revolutionary with them.

Except, you know, expand upon Middle Eastern mythology, tradition and weapons. Honestly, people know so little about the Middle East before Islam it's amazing to me. They have some of the oldest, most diverse and most advanced forms of mythology and science that it runs laps around later stages of Europe and Asia.

Besides, you say that like the Middle East DOESN'T have mythology along the lines of "spirits (Djinns, etc.), living stone [stone] statues (Lamasu's were often stone statues, as well as various idols), monkey warriors (none of that, but plenty of equivelents, look no further then the Epic of Gilgamesh), new dragons (dragons are over done one way or the other) ninjas, samurais (I'd rather not attract the wrong crowd, let 40k do that), fighting monk (sure, but you could do that with practically anything, unless you mean hand to hand fighters, which is just going to give the wrong impressions to the anime nerds), pyrotechnic stuff (yep, the Middle East certainly has no connections with fire via religion, not the Djinn or anything, nope, no way).

Asia isn't some well of mythology and unique culture that nothing can compete with, the Middle East has just as much to offer, and it's far more unique and less played out.

OldMan
30-05-2009, 15:40
Cathey. What a disappointment. I hope it will not turn out to be true.

Mozzamanx
30-05-2009, 15:42
I want 1 million Zimbabwean Dollars :D

Thats what, 80p at current inflation?

Brother Siccarius
30-05-2009, 15:50
People really need to get out of the mindset that Cathay = China and Nippon = Japan. Nowhere has this been stated. It's just people assuming such based on the names.
And the style and what we know of them, though the ninja/monk reference is actually a well established point in the background as clan Eshin learned their art while in area.


Thank you Batwings.
I like how the people shooting it down with no references or information get applauded in these threads, and the people who bring up information with some reference, even hidden ones, tend to get shouted down. Neither is bringing any proof or reliability to the conversation, and neither is any more reliable than the other.




You've got the Undead Khemri from Ancient Egypt (not European but close), the Beasts/Chaos Warrior-Norse/Orcs from Dark Age/Celtic Europe, Dwarfs from Viking Scandinavia (mixed with some classic high fantasy) the Brets from Medeval France, the Empire from Rennaisance Holy Roman Empire and the Vampire Counts from a backward Balkan state somewhere (no offence intended).

Tomb Kings are presented less like an Egyptian army, more like the mythologized, cinematic idea of egypt.
Less Amun-Ra and Set, more Boris Karloff and Brendan Frasier


The 'look' of the lizardmen is also prevelent in European culture (atleast in the timespan of the Empire) ala plundered Aztecs and Incas except with a pretty cool fantasy spin.
Doesn't that make it more of a mesoamerican culture, not a european one?



You could mention how Elves are clearly non-European. Well apart from the fact they're another fantasy staple Elves look very alike to the Mythical idea of Atlantis in appearance and a mixture of classical Greece and late Roman Empire.
I think Paul Barnett put it best:
"Elves are English posh people......Dark Elves are English posh people, what have done drugs"


So you see for me, adding in a far Eastern Oriental army just isn't in fitting with what I see as Warhammer. Not to mention the whole doom and gloom vibe the main 'protagonist' of the Warhammer story, the Empire has going on for it - bringing in a new bastion of good diminishes the epicness of the Empires last, futile war against Chaos.

It's already in there, and there's elements of the eastern armies already spread around liberally. If you think an eastern army doesn't fit well, look at Ogre Kingdoms.


Yep, folded steel is actually a compromise more so then an art. Japan has incredibly poor natural resources, and when compared to mainland Asia and European Damascus steel, it's not even a comparison.

Japanese fanboys love to talk about folded steel though, but it's not comparable to Chinese steel, and not even in the same league as European and Middle Eastern.
Just wanted to point out two things.

1: Damascus steel, steel in china, folded steel, and steel in Japan, are all a matter of removing/adding impurities, not some mystical alchemical process. Folding steel was just a process of removing impurities and evening out the carbon content throughout the metal, which in the Japanese and Norse case allowed them to make an almost entirely pure steel for use in their weapons that was at least comparable to alloyed steel from mainland areas. Steel is an alloy, not a pure element. No one area has better steel than the other (because it's not natural, not mined, and therefor not specific to any one area), they might produce varying types of steels, but they're inevitably perfected for specific purposes.
Certainly neither culture had any problem using weapons from Tamahagane and/or Bog Smelting to gain a fearsome reputation.

2: The Katana isn't some magic weapon, just a well designed and crafted one. Though it's design does lend it to some interesting and/or incredible uses, it wasn't always, or even widely, the main weapon of the samurai. Bows, spears and pole arms, and even the occasional grenade were all weapons of the samurai.

ICLRK625
30-05-2009, 16:05
Just wanted to point out two things.

1: Damascus steel, steel in china, folded steel, and steel in Japan, are all a matter of removing/adding impurities, not some mystical alchemical process. Folding steel was just a process of removing impurities and evening out the carbon content throughout the metal, which in the Japanese and Norse case allowed them to make an almost entirely pure steel for use in their weapons that was at least comparable to alloyed steel from mainland areas. Steel is an alloy, not a pure element. No one area has better steel than the other (because it's not natural, not mined, and therefor not specific to any one area), they might produce varying types of steels, but they're inevitably perfected for specific purposes.
Certainly neither culture had any problem using weapons from Tamahagane and/or Bog Smelting to gain a fearsome reputation.

2: The Katana isn't some magic weapon, just a well designed and crafted one. Though it's design does lend it to some interesting and/or incredible uses, it wasn't always, or even widely, the main weapon of the samurai. Bows, spears and pole arms, and even the occasional grenade were all weapons of the samurai.

1. Yep, for the most part, it was comparable to standard steel in Europe and Asian (in terms of the finest folded steel versus average steel). However, it has several disadvantages compared to standard pure steel, the first and most obvious being that it's extremely difficult to make when compared to it. In Japan, swordsmithing was a craft that took a lifetime to learn, compare that to Europe, where they were spitting out Swords, Armor and everything else at huge rates. Second is the amount of time it takes to do (which is along the lines of difficult). Folding steel takes far longer then mixing pure iron with pure carbon (obviously it's more complex then that, but there's really no need to go into details), so having a weapon of folded steel in Japan was a privelage only accessible by Samurai and nobles.

Also worth noting, Damascus steel is (by historical accounts) FAR sharper then standard steel. The typical legend is that it was capable of cutting other swords in half, and even rocks. This isn't entirely false, as it's certainly stronger then standard and folded steel, but it's not like a Macana (which are made of Obsidian) in that it can literally cut through most anything.

2. Agreed 100%

Again worth noting, the Spear is by far the most efficent hand to hand weapon, swords were romanticized by just about every culture that used them, the reasons being usually legends or mythology.

For example, Romans and Greeks would often brag about killing people with Swords, as drawing your sword meant an opponent got so close to you that a spear (a superior weapon in most cases) was of no use, and you have the time/skill to draw your sword and kill him. Also, as it's a very grass roots weapon, there are often mythological/magical swords that are used in legends, so that makes them popular in cultures.

Condottiere
30-05-2009, 16:09
It's just that off the battlefield, you don't drag around the naginata or a spear - that would be impolite.

Messiah
30-05-2009, 16:10
1: Damascus steel, steel in china, folded steel, and steel in Japan, are all a matter of removing/adding impurities, not some mystical alchemical process. Folding steel was just a process of removing impurities and evening out the carbon content throughout the metal, which in the Japanese and Norse case allowed them to make an almost entirely pure steel for use in their weapons that was at least comparable to alloyed steel from mainland areas. Steel is an alloy, not a pure element. No one area has better steel than the other (because it's not natural, not mined, and therefor not specific to any one area), they might produce varying types of steels, but they're inevitably perfected for specific purposes.
Certainly neither culture had any problem using weapons from Tamahagane and/or Bog Smelting to gain a fearsome reputation.

2: The Katana isn't some magic weapon, just a well designed and crafted one. Though it's design does lend it to some interesting and/or incredible uses, it wasn't always, or even widely, the main weapon of the samurai. Bows, spears and pole arms, and even the occasional grenade were all weapons of the samurai.

1. Not quite true. Folded steel, or pattern welding is a method where you take an inferior steel and fold it together with a better steel. This evens out the inferior steel over the whole blade, so you wont have as many weak points. It does not remove impurities however, that is a part of the smelting process, and can only be done to a point, depending on your level of technology.

The smelting technology in europe was far better than the one in asia during the middle ages, which is why pattern welding stopped being used at around 1000 a.d., about 500 years earlier than in Japan.

2. While katanas are aestetically pleasing, their design is in no way superior to chinese or european swords, in fact, they only have one edge, which does make them somewhat limited, as I have experienced, having trained both kendo, aikido and the german longsword. They also weigh in at about the same weight as a european longsword, around 1,2-2 kgs. (And does balance as well, depending on what the sword was supposed to be used for in China or Europe, cutting, slicing or thrusting).


Also worth noting, Damascus steel is (by historical accounts) FAR sharper then standard steel. The typical legend is that it was capable of cutting other swords in half, and even rocks. This isn't entirely false, as it's certainly stronger then standard and folded steel, but it's not like a Macana (which are made of Obsidian) in that it can literally cut through most anything.

Not quite true either, woots steel, used to make damascus blades can be read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz_steel



That said, I have to say Im hoping for more of araby as well, I mean, Cathay is already represented with ogres and skaven, not much araby yet.

ghost21
30-05-2009, 16:15
'i have it on good authority the new race will be cathay'

No you don't.

If you have it at all, you have it on bad authority.

There is no new race coming within the foreseeable future.

i really didnt want to post what i found but still thought that this rumor should come to warseer, he was right about the high elf thing though, if there isnt and ive been told alot of hash i apologise

Verm1s
30-05-2009, 16:34
We don't need a Warhammer army to corresppond with every historical region of the real world.

No, but it would be fun.


Even Lizardmen and Ogre Kingdoms were a big stretch for me. They just don't have that classic old world gothic Warhammer feel.

Other people disagree, or they wouldn't sell.


The World's Edge Mountains should be exactly what their name implies in my opinion.

What about chaos dwarfs and hobgoblins? Heck, greenskins in general?


ninjas, samurais (I'd rather not attract the wrong crowd, let 40k do that)

That's a little high-handed, don't you think? For a game with toy soldiers?

I'm no anime nut; I largely dislike the stuff. But I do have a passing interest in feudal japan and china, including - so sue me - the romanticised view. Sorry to say I don't have a degree or two in ancient babylonian studies to correct my wayward tastes, nor am I much interested in one. (A moot point anyway, since Araby is based on the 1001-Nights-style view of Islamic culture. The lammasu and big hats theme was already dealt with elsewhere.)
I'm more interested in a cathay or nippon army. I'd like to see what GW would do to 'fantasise' them and the resulting minis, and distinguish them from historical chinese and japanese culture.

And then I'd probably go and buy a bunch of Perry minis anyway.

Tokamak
30-05-2009, 17:01
I want dragon monkey ninjas!


Even Lizardmen and Ogre Kingdoms were a big stretch for me. They just don't have that classic old world gothic Warhammer feel.

Warhammer has many different styles. Germanic beastmen, greek high elves, celtic wood elves, norse dwarves and scottisch orcs, you're doing a big injustice to the rich warhammer world and the ancient cultures they're based on to say every race needs to fit with the gothic old world.



There are plenty of races closer to home - Araby, Kislev, Chaos Dwarfs - that should take priority.
Araby is Persian empire, Kislev is Russian, and Chaos Dwarves are Babylonians, nothing gothic about them (though Kislev can apply to it).

Condottiere
30-05-2009, 17:04
Regarding Damascus steel, there was an article recently that stated that the manufacturing process created carbon nanotubes that permitted it's flexibility - the article also said the reason the secret was lost was because the ore with the required impurities from India was mined completely out by the 1700s.

s5134195
30-05-2009, 17:38
I really really really hope that cathay and nippon ain't human.

Army of ghoul-people is my first preference, since one of the vamp bloodlines went there.

Fish-men, monkey-men, Living stone-men, spirit-people, anything but humans!
Why does Chinese and Japanese have to be humans when Scots get to be orks, Teutons Bestmen, Celts wood elves, Egyptians undead, Russians/Scandinavians Dwarves, Mongols ogres and Maya/Aztec/Inca lizardmen?

I believe that the new thing is Sartossa.

I salute you sir. Human-and-everything-else-along-the-fringes fantasy worlds are lame and over done. This "omg! Only Human in Europe is racism!" nonsense is not supported by the Fimir at GW UK. :P

lord marcus
30-05-2009, 17:47
'i have it on good authority the new race will be cathay'

No you don't.

If you have it at all, you have it on bad authority.

There is no new race coming within the foreseeable future.

quote your source.

ghost21
30-05-2009, 18:07
I want 1 million Zimbabwean Dollars :D

do you want the 50p sent in the mail??

Condottiere
30-05-2009, 18:32
Doesn't it cost more to print Zimbabwean Dollars than any face value pre-inflation?

Orcboy_Phil
30-05-2009, 18:45
Monkey warriors and Foxes, thats what we need. The foxes should be an Assassin like unit with the more powerful nine tailed foxes(if I hear one peep about Naruto I'll kill them) being sorcers with subtle leadership effecting based magic (bit like slannesh), after all there always protrayed as enchanters rather than battle mages.
Lots of spearmen and gunpowder based weaponary, but this should be primitive and inaccurate, after all that is one advantage the Europeans had over the Chinese. Crossbows should be the main projectile weapon, with things like firespears (bamboo filled with gunpowder to form a basic flamethrower) and possibly firearrows(early rocket launchers) as a special unit, with light cannons being a special unit as well (proberly 2 for 1 as these were feilded in large numbers).
Rares you looking at things like monkey warriors/fighting monks, barking dogs(possibly a cross between a war engine and a monster, much like the hellcannon), terracote warrior style golums etc... Lots to chose from really.

Tlotsqi
30-05-2009, 19:13
One of my friend talked with Alessio during the last GT, he said that GW won't release human army, because they think that it's not commercially interesting.
So if this new rumour is true, it shouldn't be a chinese based army like we could imagine it.
It let the door open for a lot of things as a hobgoblins'great khan army, with gigantic stuff like strange eastern beasts, or chaos dwarves stolen warmachines for example.

For me fimirs would be more relevant.

senso
30-05-2009, 19:27
If it was based on a far eastern theme, then they will probably mix all the famous elements from that region into one army; elite soldiers like samurai, fast cavalary like Mongol horesemen, gun powder weapons and snake like dragons from China, shaolin monks, Oni, Shinigami, celestial and animal based magic, possibly a caste system, like 40k Tau (who's background borrows heavily from Chinese/Japanese history).

Tymell
30-05-2009, 19:49
As far as this whole rumour goes, I'm not putting any stock in it, but I'm not totally dismissing it either. I could see it, I just haven't seen enough to make me believe it's actually happening, the rumours so far are simply too vague.


People really need to get out of the mindset that Cathay = China and Nippon = Japan. Nowhere has this been stated. It's just people assuming such based on the names.

They might not be. But they are in the same georgraphical locations, and Cathay does have a great wall. Given the connections with the other races to their real world geographical counterparts, I'd say it's a fair assumption that Cathay would have a good level of Chinese influence.

Mireadur
30-05-2009, 20:17
Originally Posted by Miami View Post
To be honest, I am not in the least interested in a Cathayan army. I want to play Wahammer FANTASY, not Warhammer Fake History Lesson. Cathay was created to reflect China (and Nippon to Japan) as to easily create believable fluff that could be quickly churned out. If they were to attempt to make an army based on what has been told of Cathay, they'd either have to alter a lot of the current Cathayan fluff, or deal with an army that would be comparatively boring to the other Fantasy Armies.


Theres plenty of mythology in asian cultures to make it a fantasy army. It would be more fantasy colored than an Empire or Bretonnian army at least.

Heh, i will have to agree with Alric on this. Empire or bret are just fantastical deviations of historical periods.

Sasori_jap
30-05-2009, 20:18
I can already see a special character being a legendary assasin(ninja) standing still doing a symbol with his fingers :P Anyway dont judge an army we havent seen/confirmed yet. GW can make an asian themed army cool in a million ways possible. My bet is half of the guys whining now (IF its Cathay after all) will start playing them after seeing the shiny new models.

Grimstonefire
30-05-2009, 20:39
Asking someone to confirm whether a rumour is true does lessen the impact of this a bit (otherwise why ask?). It almost appears like the OP is asking to confirm officially what it is not, which would increase the chances of other contenders.

It is not always the case that only a few people know things on here, so we cannot always rely on certain people to confirm, but for something like this we really need at least three or four people to confirm the same thing.

An additional character for HE wasn't that much of a surprise really ;)

Tymell
30-05-2009, 20:44
It is not always the case that only a few people know things on here, so we cannot always rely on certain people to confirm, but for something like this really need at least three or four people to confirm the same thing.

Indeed, although thanks for the OP for it anyway, I forgot to say that, as do too many :) It may not be true, but that's the nature of a rumour. From dictionary.com: "a story or statement in general circulation without confirmation or certainty as to facts". So it's still worth putting here at least.

Nephilim of Sin
30-05-2009, 20:56
If it does turn out that they are not human, I don't think I would be interested as much, or at all. It would be great to have another addition to the human choices beyond Empire and Bretonnians that have a unique look and playstyle, but perhaps I feel that way since I have no interest in playing any of the current human armies.

Brother Siccarius
30-05-2009, 21:17
If it does turn out that they are not human, I don't think I would be interested as much, or at all. It would be great to have another addition to the human choices beyond Empire and Bretonnians that have a unique look and playstyle, but perhaps I feel that way since I have no interest in playing any of the current human armies.

Don't forget Chaos.

Scryer in the Darkness
30-05-2009, 21:28
Why does Chinese and Japanese have to be humans when Scots get to be orks, Teutons Bestmen, Celts wood elves, Egyptians undead, Russians/Scandinavians Dwarves, Mongols ogres and Maya/Aztec/Inca lizardmen?

Warhammer has many different styles. Germanic beastmen, greek high elves, celtic wood elves, norse dwarves and scottisch orcs, you're doing a big injustice to the rich warhammer world and the ancient cultures they're based on to say every race needs to fit with the gothic old world.
Orcses is Scottish?!? :wtf:

Weemo
30-05-2009, 21:31
i hope it wont, it will be another human army which i dont really care for and i would personally prefer cd's, i mean if they made them good, then they will attract exspecially other chaos players

Shamfrit
30-05-2009, 21:32
No, that'd be Albion - Orcs are Orcs, and represent cliched barbarians invading.

Nephilim of Sin
30-05-2009, 21:52
Don't forget Chaos.

Which is sad that I forget them, considering I have a small Mortals army. Of course, I never really looked at that army as being 'human', perhaps due to being there with them before the big split, but I guess since things have changed and streamlined, they really do fit the bill.

I guess looking at it like that, I wouldn't completely upset if Cathay was non-human after all. Just so long as it is not Fishmen.

Lord Dan
30-05-2009, 22:15
Probably like an empire Druchii skaven fusion.
Dear god...


I really really really hope that cathay and nippon ain't human.
They are. It's been quite established.

wallacer
30-05-2009, 22:31
In the currect political environment I doubt that GW would take the financial risk on an Araby army.
Chinese may be more likely if GW are going to try and push into the Chinese market.

Personally, the idea of another human army bores me to tears (it's bad enough we have 3 Elven armies).

Bring on the Chaos Dwarfs. There must be a steampunk market out there that CD would enable GW to tap into. The Warmachine people seem to be making money after all.

Brother Siccarius
30-05-2009, 23:02
Orcses is Scottish?!? :wtf:

Yep, they were even described as such by a developer (Can't remember if it was Gav or Andy) in a white dwarf article. Something along the lines of "hordes coming down from their hills"


In the currect political environment I doubt that GW would take the financial risk on an Araby army.

I severely doubt that will have anything to do with their decision of making an araby army or not, it's just ridiculous.

Orcboy_Phil
30-05-2009, 23:12
Orcses is Scottish?!? :wtf:

Well they like to get drunk and start fights, and some of them wear skirts to boot... :angel:

sirbone
30-05-2009, 23:39
Bloody hell.

Scryer in the Darkness
30-05-2009, 23:59
Yep, they were even described as such by a developer (Can't remember if it was Gav or Andy) in a white dwarf article. Something along the lines of "hordes coming down from their hills".
I call shenanigans on that. That's hardly distinctively Scottish™. I don't see any kind of Scottish influence on GW Orcs' imagery or culture. Or did a miss an edition of the Orcs & Goblins Army Book where they all wore kilts, played the bagpipes and wielded claymores? Wood Elves at least have very strong Celtic overtones.


Well they like to get drunk and start fights, and some of them wear skirts to boot... :angel:
Racist. Deeply racist. :p And Orcses wear skirtses? :wtf:

Stmr5000
31-05-2009, 00:11
'i have it on good authority the new race will be cathay'

No you don't.

If you have it at all, you have it on bad authority.

There is no new race coming within the foreseeable future.

Do you have that on good authority? ;)
If not, it's really best that you don't assume you know.

Tymell
31-05-2009, 00:22
Racist. Deeply racist. :p And Orcses wear skirtses? :wtf:

Maybe, but all Scottish folks I know would revel in that description ;)

Scryer in the Darkness
31-05-2009, 00:23
Maybe, but all Scottish folks I know would revel in that description ;)
No, they would correct it that they finish fights. ;)

Lotl Botl
31-05-2009, 01:05
just throwing that out there u brought up djini twice as all ur variety, epic of gilgamesh is more kingdoms if Ind then araby(had to read it in hhish school), and how are samurais and ninjas 40K
just explain why araby is more unique than cathay again lol?

Ozorik
31-05-2009, 01:06
I call shenanigans on that.

Its true. I remember reading the article, it was by Gav Thorpe IIRC. Its pretty much gibberish (and from a distinctly english veiwpoint) when you think about it but thats how they were described.


Maybe, but all Scottish folks I know would revel in that description

I dont know about that, I've seen far more fights in england.

When is this mysterious army supposed to be released? I had heard rumours of June but seening as thats 2 days away I'm guessing thats wrong.

Scryer in the Darkness
31-05-2009, 01:15
Its true. I remember reading the article, it was by Gav Thorpe IIRC.
I was calling shenanigans on the Games Developer for saying it, not that the article didn't exist.

Ozorik
31-05-2009, 01:23
Well it looks like I'll need to update my lexicon now :)

NakedBarbarian
31-05-2009, 01:31
What about an eastern type army that has units from Cathay, nippon, Ind and Araby?

Lotl Botl
31-05-2009, 01:53
cool thing if ur bored check it out http://warseer.com/rules/warhammer_fantasy_rules/warhammer_armies_cathay_fan_project

Methusula
31-05-2009, 01:57
Cathay would make sense from a business point of view.

The Tau were created for the GW push into Japan, and they are probably the most popular 40k army here. If Workshop are planning to expand into China, which, from an economic standpoint, would be interesting to say the least, then its almost a pre-requisite that something is created specifically for the Continental Asian marketplace.

I would prefer almost any army over Cathay, but everything seems to be hearsay and speculation so far.

Hellebore
31-05-2009, 02:04
There is a distinct difference between historically inspired and slaved to history. Warhammer is not slaved to history, but the way some people talk, if a Cathay army didn't slavishly follow one particular dynasty it would be some racist travesty.

Obviously Cathay, Nippon, and Kuresh are supposed to encapsulate the entirety of earth's Asia region, but it doesn't mean they will be identical in all ways to specific parts of Asia and earth history, any more than Kislev is identical to Poland, Russia, Czechoslovakia etc.

Warhammer is a romanticised image of earth history with chaos in. It mushes several different ages of history together, chucks out some bits, adds others, and smooths it over with a healthy slathering of grimdark.

Warhammer is Warhammer and it should stay that way. Cathay should not have to pander to sensitivies, it should be kickass and full of awesome, with a salting of grimdark and a dash of inappropriateness. China was hardly a paradise anymore than Inquisition Europe was. So anyone who think Cathay should not have any 'badness' in it to avoid offence is being shall we say an apologist of the highest order.

Hopefully GW will actually do something right for a change and ignore people and make a Warhammer Cathay, not a Politically Correct loveydovey earth history Cathay.

Hellebore

Brother Siccarius
31-05-2009, 02:18
I call shenanigans on that. That's hardly distinctively Scottish™. I don't see any kind of Scottish influence on GW Orcs' imagery or culture. Or did a miss an edition of the Orcs & Goblins Army Book where they all wore kilts, played the bagpipes and wielded claymores? Wood Elves at least have very strong Celtic overtones.


Racist. Deeply racist. :p And Orcses wear skirtses? :wtf:

Wait a minute, isn't your comment above that comment just as racist?

And incidentally

Kilts (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=400025&pIndex=1&aId=13800002&start=2)

Bagpipes and kilts (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat50033&prodId=prod1040504&rootCatGameStyle=wh)

and a choppa is the claymore of axes.

Scryer in the Darkness
31-05-2009, 02:22
Wait a minute, isn't your comment above that comment just as racist?
Huh? How so? :wtf:

Hellebore
31-05-2009, 02:28
I believe the most Gav said in the article (I think in a WD designer notes from the release of 6th ed or around that time) was that the orcs were scottish in their behaviour, marauding out of the mountains into the lowlands.

That's about it iirc.

Hellebore

chaos0xomega
31-05-2009, 02:33
I also would welcome a Cathay army than say, a Fishman army. But I will be happy with anything that expands the Warhammer Universe, since there is so little we know about certain areas.

EDIT:

Of course, with my luck, watch the Cathay army be Fishmen. Then I would be mad.

But that would be politically incorrect. ;) (see my first post in this thread on page 1)

Anyway, didn't the original rumor thread say it WOULDN'T be a human army (meaning it's not Cathay, Ind, Araby, Tilea, Nippon, or any of the other human races that inhabit the world that I can't care to remember atm)?

I'd like to thing that the new army will be... Ogre Kingdoms!! Yeah! You remember, GW released them what... 5 years ago now, and they've been entirely underpowered and nearly unplayable since...

On the other hand, Cathay would make sense considering the recent thread about the new GW positions available in china...


I want 1 million Zimbabwean Dollars

Will you accept a penny thats been cut in half? I know it's overpaying by a lot, consider the rest a gift from me...

Scryer in the Darkness
31-05-2009, 02:33
And incidentally

Kilts (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=400025&pIndex=1&aId=13800002&start=2)
That ain't a kilt laddie. Not even close.


Bagpipes and kilts (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat50033&prodId=prod1040504&rootCatGameStyle=wh)
That is however a nice wee set of bagpipes on that Night Gobbo. :D However a single set of bagpipes does not a Scottish army make. ;)


and a choppa is the claymore of axes.
Don't even mention axes in the same sentence as claymores. Just don't. :p

Hellebore
31-05-2009, 02:42
There is a plastic orc with what looks kiltish:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1530009&prodId=prod840889

right hand side, third from the front (weapon in the air).

It's a tunic style skirt not a loin cloth. I've got enough of them to know (painted them up as Kommandos).

Of course, one model in 4 with a skirt does not a scottish kilt wearing orc make.

hellebore

ICLRK625
31-05-2009, 02:56
That's a little high-handed, don't you think? For a game with toy soldiers?

I'm no anime nut; I largely dislike the stuff. But I do have a passing interest in feudal japan and china, including - so sue me - the romanticised view. Sorry to say I don't have a degree or two in ancient babylonian studies to correct my wayward tastes, nor am I much interested in one. (A moot point anyway, since Araby is based on the 1001-Nights-style view of Islamic culture. The lammasu and big hats theme was already dealt with elsewhere.)
I'm more interested in a cathay or nippon army. I'd like to see what GW would do to 'fantasise' them and the resulting minis, and distinguish them from historical chinese and japanese culture.

And then I'd probably go and buy a bunch of Perry minis anyway.

Haha, it was off-hand, I wasn't being serious, sorry if I offended anyone.

I'm not a fan of anything that feeds the typical anime fanboy views of Japan though, so for that reason, I will stand by not wanting to attract the wrong crowd.

Condottiere
31-05-2009, 07:30
I don't think the Chinese have money to spend on plastic or pewter miniatures at the moment, and whereas we can understand the underlying themes and spoofs that come out of the creation of the primary armies/races in Fantasy, how could GW be sure of a Far Eastern clientèle, assuming they would be the primary customer base for this range?

75hastings69
31-05-2009, 07:37
Two words - market research.

Memnos
31-05-2009, 07:37
Since we know that GW is expanding in to Asia, I wouldn't be surprised if Cathay were the new army.

However, I should point out that this rumour doesn't appear anywhere but Warseer on a cursory search of Google and nobody has pics or any corroborating, substantive evidence.

I'm wary of this suggestion. But if it turned out to be true, I bet they have at least one awesome unit of stone soldiers. :D

Bregalad
31-05-2009, 07:52
I don't think the Chinese have money to spend on plastic or pewter miniatures at the moment, and whereas we can understand the underlying themes and spoofs that come out of the creation of the primary armies/races in Fantasy, how could GW be sure of a Far Eastern clientèle, assuming they would be the primary customer base for this range?
1.) A Far Eastern themed army was a main Western customer demand (including me) and not a Chinese or Japanese customer wish.
2.) China has some very rich people in the cities (incl. Hong Kong) and many very poor people in the countryside. Those rich enough to buy GW stuff now will be rich enough to buy a Cathay army as well.
3.) GW doesn't believe in economics (esp. marketing). If some staff has the idea of expanding in China, they just do it whatever the costs. They can always raise prices if a financial problem arises :rolleyes:

And yes, this thread is just wild speculation that I do not take seriously as with all the other wild speculation threads before.

Batwings
31-05-2009, 08:09
Originally Posted by Batwings

'i have it on good authority the new race will be cathay'

'No you don't.

If you have it at all, you have it on bad authority.

There is no new race coming within the foreseeable future.'


quote your source.
__________________

Happy to:

Everybody that works at the GW Design Studio.

Can't say I understand why the usual fonts of Warseer wisdom have chosen to remain unusually tight-lipped on this one, but I believe most of them know nothing's coming.

I'm not usually one to post on topics like this, preferring to stay under the radar but something about this never-ending series of ill-informed posts has wound me up no end.

Now of course, it's hard to post evidence of non-existence so many of you may choose to disregard my comments so I shall leave you with this - I've been closely involved with the GW studio for 20 years and whilst I no longer keep tabs on every new release and project under development, I have chatted with old friends there during recent weeks.

Make of that what you will.

Condottiere
31-05-2009, 08:09
I spoke with one guy who seems to have had a keen interest on what GW's been up to, and he told me that their attempts at establishing themselves in China and Japan flopped; I can't verify this independently, but I see no reason why this isn't true.

While the political situation regarding the Middle east is irksome, any underlying theme for an Araby army would harken back to the golden era of Arabian Nights Hollywood fantasy, basically 1930s-1950s where we viewed the entire region with rose-coloured glasses, and we are likely to end up with a romanticised version.

If they include the Crusades period, the possible problem I can foresee (not that it would be a problem with me) would be the Hashshashin sect.

Tymell
31-05-2009, 08:25
Now of course, it's hard to post evidence of non-existence so many of you may choose to disregard my comments...

The reason many chose to disregard your comment was that it was phrased in an unnecessarily hostile way with absolutely no indication of where it was coming from. If you'd just said that other stuff in the first place, and in a slightly more polite way, I'm sure people would've taken much more notice.

therisnosaurus
31-05-2009, 09:19
As much as I have more reason than anyone to wish for a Cathay army, I unfortunately have little to offer here in the positive. I have my own sources, of varying closeness to the studio and nobody has corroborated that there is a big secret new race for warhammer in the works. They HAVE corroborated that there is a big secret project in the works, and what it is, but unfortunately it's not actually what most people think it is. Lot of mixed up rumors going around.

That all said, I still have hope. There are some little memetic bits of data that haven't found their logical place yet, so it's still a possibility, but I've got no reason to be saving my money to get it...

Grimstonefire
31-05-2009, 10:24
Originally Posted by Batwings

'i have it on good authority the new race will be cathay'

'No you don't.

If you have it at all, you have it on bad authority.

There is no new race coming within the foreseeable future.'


quote your source.
__________________

Happy to:

Everybody that works at the GW Design Studio.

Can't say I understand why the usual fonts of Warseer wisdom have chosen to remain unusually tight-lipped on this one, but I believe most of them know nothing's coming.

I'm not usually one to post on topics like this, preferring to stay under the radar but something about this never-ending series of ill-informed posts has wound me up no end.

Now of course, it's hard to post evidence of non-existence so many of you may choose to disregard my comments so I shall leave you with this - I've been closely involved with the GW studio for 20 years and whilst I no longer keep tabs on every new release and project under development, I have chatted with old friends there during recent weeks.

Make of that what you will.

I for one appreciate the clarification. Though if everyone that works in the Design Studio knew you were going to post it on warseer they might have been intentionally misleading! :D I'm impressed that you know everyone in the studio closely enough to chat with them about these things.

So we now have one person who is willing to go on record stating what he believes. Is there anyone else willing to report they also know it's cathay? As I said, for something like this where the usual suspects stay silent, we need a lot more people than usual to say the same thing.

Methusula
31-05-2009, 11:16
I spoke with one guy who seems to have had a keen interest on what GW's been up to, and he told me that their attempts at establishing themselves in China and Japan flopped; I can't verify this independently, but I see no reason why this isn't true.


This seems to be rubbish, as GW don't have any stores in Asia outside of Japan, so obviously their attempts at establishing themselves in China flopping is impossible, since they never tried.

On the other hand there are at least 4 GW stores in Tokyo, with a new store opening in the coming months. Generally if business is bad, you don't open more stores.

China is one of the fastest growing economies in the world, and there are certainly plenty of people with the cash to splash, there is a whole generation of new money Chinese both on the mainland, and in Hong Kong.

75hastings69
31-05-2009, 11:25
When in both Hong Kong & Singapore last year I noted that the GW stores that used to be there had closed, so I would consider that a step back if not a failure. Fun Atellier in Hong Kong is however better than most GW stores I've ever been to anyway.

Gork or Possibly Mork
31-05-2009, 11:51
Two words - market research.

I really do wonder if all these supposedly leaked but vague as hell army rumours is just a marketing tool.

@ GW HQ

Joe: "Ok Jim they bought it. haha!! They want Cathay really bad now"
Jim: "They do?!? Even teh ninja's? How bad do they want it?"
Joe: "There willing to give an arm and a leg and thier first born son.
Jim: "Even at goldsword prices?"
Joe: "Yep and then some. They fell for that one too BTW. They think the battalion is a steal LOL! Pfft, Gullible huh? They'll sell like crack cakes. There addicted you know?"
Jim: " Indeed. Then make it so my friend, your on a roll."

loli
31-05-2009, 12:15
China was also more famous for having more effective weapons, and actually drilling their armies. Japanese armies weren't well trained (the bulk of them at least), in fact, it often came down to the quality of the equipment Samurai had (infinitely better then the peasants, folded steel, actual armor, etc.) and less to do with their training (of course, Samurai actually had training, which contributed in no small part). China actually trained and drilled it's troops, relying less on individual combat, and more on the big picture, hence the reason Japanese invasions were regularly repelled by Chinese peasants with Spears with feathers tied on them.

Wow, considering Japan only invaded China once and that was in the 1930's I find it amazing the Chinese repelled repeated invasions from someone pretending to be Japan.

You may be mistaking Japans invasion of Korea in the 16th century were they were pressed back out of Korea by hordes of Chinese who did so at considerable loss.

So far as a new race, I want them to flesh out the rest of the old world first. Why can't I have my Estelian inquisition, warring city-states of Tilea, Winged lancers and Boyars of the Tzar, and the Sultanates of Araby?

Shadow_Steed
31-05-2009, 12:21
Id rather see new plastics for the already existing races. Plastic White Lions or Black Guards:)

Condottiere
31-05-2009, 12:23
Korea's location has always made it the target of expansionist empires, whether Japan, China, Mongols or Russia.

Dexter099
31-05-2009, 13:41
THERE IS NO NEW RACE!!! So stop spamming threads on it, there is no actual premise!!! The first one of these threads started was admitted to be bogus, and all of these threads are essentially basing their 'facts' off of a bogus thread. Come on.

Bregalad
31-05-2009, 13:50
I spoke with one guy who seems to have had a keen interest on what GW's been up to, and he told me that their attempts at establishing themselves in China and Japan flopped; I can't verify this independently, but I see no reason why this isn't true.
As GW does no marketing or advertising (or introductory games), they will probably do there what they do everywhere else: They hope that all 3 billion Asians by chance walk into the 3 Tokyo stores and get hooked ;)

Korea's location has always made it the target of expansionist empires, whether Japan, China, Mongols or Russia.
Japanese had a long tradition of fighting each other, until Mongols tried to invade it between 1272 and 1281 (repelled a.o. by a Typhoon called Kamikaze). From 1568 to 1600 they tried to conquer Korea, China and more, but were repelled as well.

Condottiere
31-05-2009, 14:19
Toyotomi Hideyoshi ultimate aim was to conquer parts, if not all, of the Middle kingdom. It would have kept the warrior class occupied for generations.

Tokamak
31-05-2009, 14:44
THERE IS NO NEW RACE!!! So stop spamming threads on it, there is no actual premise!!! The first one of these threads started was admitted to be bogus, and all of these threads are essentially basing their 'facts' off of a bogus thread. Come on.

The fact alone that we haven't heard anything substantial from GW for quite a while is reason enough to assume something big is coming.

Tlotsqi
31-05-2009, 16:31
THERE IS NO NEW RACE!!! So stop spamming threads on it, there is no actual premise!!! The first one of these threads started was admitted to be bogus, and all of these threads are essentially basing their 'facts' off of a bogus thread. Come on.
I remember 2 years before its release, we had rumours about planet strike, and there were people to say that the"believers" were wrong:p
I don't know if there is a new army or a new race in the desk, but I know 2 things: something big is comming, but not for tomorow.
It can be a new race, as it can be a huge stuff for Battle like apocalypse.

Lewis
31-05-2009, 19:09
I call shenanigans on that. That's hardly distinctively Scottish™. I don't see any kind of Scottish influence on GW Orcs' imagery or culture. Or did a miss an edition of the Orcs & Goblins Army Book where they all wore kilts, played the bagpipes and wielded claymores? Wood Elves at least have very strong Celtic overtones.


Racist. Deeply racist. :p And Orcses wear skirtses? :wtf:

When Beasts of Chaos came out the designer expounded on the whole races = real world culture. He explained that the beasts were based on the Germanic tribes (specifically the ones from Gladiator) and the Orcs were Picts (rather than Scots, I think). Certainly that matches the whole indominatable boader raiders thing.

Tymell
31-05-2009, 19:18
THERE IS NO NEW RACE!!! So stop spamming threads on it, there is no actual premise!!! The first one of these threads started was admitted to be bogus, and all of these threads are essentially basing their 'facts' off of a bogus thread. Come on.

To be fair, why does it matter to you? If you yourself know there's nothing coming, then why is it a problem for there to be a couple of threads (this is only the second I've actually seen on this topic) about it? You can just ignore said thread.

Brother Siccarius
31-05-2009, 19:31
THERE IS NO NEW RACE!!! So stop spamming threads on it, there is no actual premise!!! The first one of these threads started was admitted to be bogus, and all of these threads are essentially basing their 'facts' off of a bogus thread. Come on.

I actually never saw anything like that in the thread, anyone got a quote for it?

BobtheInquisitor
31-05-2009, 19:57
I sure hope for GW's sake that there is a new race. Too many vets already have everything they need in every other army, and the Warhammer World could always use a breath of fresh air. They can just keep chugging away charging more for smaller and smaller sales, or they can give us something new that gives us a reason to come back to the game. If GW isn't bringing out a new race soon, then someone in HQ really screwed up.

Ideally the new race would be something different enough that it doesn't feel like "Empire without plumes", which would encompass most of the Old World armies that aren't developed yet. Cathay, Araby, Fishmen, Dragons, Angels, etc., all sound like they could add a new dimension to the game. Hopefully GW realizes this and gives us a new army/region to explore with fluff, models and rules. Hell, I'll just take the models. Especially if they're Cathayan or Dragons.

Daniel36
31-05-2009, 20:07
To be honest, I am not in the least interested in a Cathayan army. I want to play Wahammer FANTASY, not Warhammer Fake History Lesson. Cathay was created to reflect China (and Nippon to Japan) as to easily create believable fluff that could be quickly churned out. If they were to attempt to make an army based on what has been told of Cathay, they'd either have to alter a lot of the current Cathayan fluff, or deal with an army that would be comparatively boring to the other Fantasy Armies.

Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer Fake History Lesson is pretty much synonymous, if you ask me. The races have always been at least somewhat inspired by real world history, most more than a little, and the world map is a dead give-away that their world if inspired by ours.

And how would an army inspired by either China or Japan, with added fantasy elements be 'comparatively' boring? You do know how much folklore, myths, awesome military stuff and whatnot they have, right? And plenty of people here probably think the Empire will be infinitly more boring anyways. Not saying I am one of them, just saying. And the other Warhammer armies are all pretty standard fantasy fare... This army has the potential to be VERY original if you ask me.

They'd have to alter a lot of the current fluff? That fluff is so old, most here don't even know about it so no need to "alter".

Anyhoo, I hope it's true. I would love a Cathayan army. I am not going to wishlist. If it's true, I'll leave it up to GW to surprise me. Here's to hoping they will, if it happens.

There's so much they can do with this army, more than they could fit into an army book, but I just hope they WILL put in some mythical things, and I mean something besides Dragons, which plenty of armies already have. No, I am thinking mythical creatures that only Chinese really know about... I mean... Everyone knows dragons, and sure, the Chinese variety is different, but it's still a dragon. They probably have cooler creatures to add. That, and of course GW can add something that has NOTHING to do with China, but still fits in nicely... Like.... Fishmen.... :D

Here's to hoping.

aeon flux
31-05-2009, 20:37
I also would not be surprised if they had monks, samurai and ninjas by grouping nippon as a very close ally.

I would be VERY surprised :eek:. It's like saying that Brettonia is an empire province. I hope that, when cathay and nippon do come out, they have their own distinctive flavour. I'd be very disappointed if those nippons were considered just an allied race, like kroot and vesps are to the Tau.

hardyworld
31-05-2009, 21:40
If Cathay really does finally come out....I hope they have a "volley" shooting unit. A unit that stands behind their fighting units and shoots over them as if they have LOS. They'd be like BS3 S4 with a 36" range. It would really help with the Chinese feel (think of those large crossbows that they lay on their back and use their feet to aim). Maybe they could only "see through" only certain units to balance it out in gameplay...their basic core ranked infantry and maybe an elite ranked infantry.

Dimitrios
31-05-2009, 22:02
The fact alone that we haven't heard anything substantial from GW for quite a while is reason enough to assume something big is coming.

Yes this is because the big release is called Blood Bowl....

Coinciding with the PC game release me thinks....Sep 2009

Deus Mechanicus
31-05-2009, 22:35
just got this picture sent to me, my source says its a thumbnail for gws site that hasn't gone online yet :O it could be the cover for the new book
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4249/gcthumbnail.jpg

Mireadur
31-05-2009, 22:38
in that case, the cover would really suck =)

Scryer in the Darkness
31-05-2009, 22:39
just got this picture sent to me, my source says its a thumbnail for gws site that hasn't gone online yet :O it could be the cover for the new book
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4249/gcthumbnail.jpg

Sizzle, sizzle! :D

BobtheInquisitor
31-05-2009, 22:48
Sizzle, sizzle?

Are you saying this picture is just another photoshop hoax?

It doesn't really look like GW's style of artwork to me, but I would like to hear some kind of confirmation one way or the other.

Scryer in the Darkness
31-05-2009, 23:08
Sizzle, sizzle?

Are you saying this picture is just another photoshop hoax?

It doesn't really look like GW's style of artwork to me, but I would like to hear some kind of confirmation one way or the other.
"Sizzle, sizzle" is just a marketing turn of phrase meaning "keep people interested via any method at your disposal". ;)

In other words, keep the meat sizzling and you keep people's appetites whetted.

NakedBarbarian
31-05-2009, 23:20
just got this picture sent to me, my source says its a thumbnail for gws site that hasn't gone online yet :O it could be the cover for the new book
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4249/gcthumbnail.jpg

I call that as a fake

Emeraldw
31-05-2009, 23:30
I call that as a fake

/shrug.

Honestly, things we thought were hoax's before have turned out true, so why not now?

Either way, that picture doesn't seem as interesting as other covers.

Tymell
31-05-2009, 23:37
I'll also say fake on that one. Sure, it -could- be genuine, but there are a number of reasons why I don't believe so:

The style isn't in keeping with GW's recent look at all, it's quite a basic picture with nothing to actually tie it to Warhammer, and GW's army book pics usually have some things on there to very firmly identify the army. Even in the human ones, they still have that. Here it's just far too basic.

therat
31-05-2009, 23:51
I'll also say fake on that one. Sure, it -could- be genuine, but there are a number of reasons why I don't believe so:

The style isn't in keeping with GW's recent look at all, it's quite a basic picture with nothing to actually tie it to Warhammer, and GW's army book pics usually have some things on there to very firmly identify the army. Even in the human ones, they still have that. Here it's just far too basic.

That, and the image is conveniently a thumbnail. Show us a large image and let us debate.

Brother Siccarius
31-05-2009, 23:55
I'll also say fake on that one. Sure, it -could- be genuine, but there are a number of reasons why I don't believe so:

The style isn't in keeping with GW's recent look at all, it's quite a basic picture with nothing to actually tie it to Warhammer, and GW's army book pics usually have some things on there to very firmly identify the army. Even in the human ones, they still have that. Here it's just far too basic.
Empire
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020058&prodId=prod1050130&rootCatGameStyle=wh
Wood Elves
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020074&prodId=prod1050142&rootCatGameStyle=

Dunno, looks about in keeping. Usually the only things on the cover to identify it as Warhammer are the Fonts, "Warhammer" on the front, and the fact that we know what Warhammer imagery looks like. Really too small an image to decide on if it's in keeping with their style. Besides, new army, no previous artwork, how would we know the real thing when they show it to us?

Alric
01-06-2009, 01:08
just got this picture sent to me, my source says its a thumbnail for gws site that hasn't gone online yet :O it could be the cover for the new book
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4249/gcthumbnail.jpg

Well I hope its a hoax, there's nothing fantasy related on the cover so unless your looking for a new historical army I wouldnt put much hope in this.

strewart
01-06-2009, 02:10
Honestly, yelling fake isn't going to encourage people to provide more information.

The robes look distinctly like HE archers robes though. And what is with firing the behind his back? I think a descriptive word like 'Grand' in the army name seems a bit out of character of GW, but who knows. There have been a fair few personnel changes. And for all anyone knows this thumbnail could be just a draft.

Anyway, the viability of a new army coming soon grows larger yet again. Lets hope they live up to the suspense.

Lord Dan
01-06-2009, 02:53
The background of the picture seems a tad empty. You have the HE style archers up front and nothing behind. Odd.

Strewart's point about the addition of the adjective "Grand" is also spot on.

Vermin-thing
01-06-2009, 02:55
Could "Grand" point towards having both Cathy, and Nippon in one book? Sounds really fun. :) Well it looks like my empire army is on hold now. I agree that we need a bigger picture, but otherwise it looks interesting. I think there's more detail in the back than we can see.

Hrogoff the Destructor
01-06-2009, 02:57
I'm curious to see if this is true.

Uh, call me crazy, but does anyone else see a biplane in that picture?

Scryer in the Darkness
01-06-2009, 02:57
Strewart's point about the addition of the adjective "Grand" is also spot on.
I disagree... quite strongly. It's something I would expect from GW (and find far more appealing than just "Cathay") as it would tie in somewhat with recent Codices and Army Books such as Ogre Kingdoms and Tau Empire... especially if it comprises units from nearby realms such as Nippon. ;)

Vermin-thing
01-06-2009, 03:00
I'm curious to see if this is true.

Uh, call me crazy, but does anyone else see a biplane in that picture?

Oh gods, I'd bet money on that, but sadly GW is taking all my money with this release. :D

Scryer in the Darkness
01-06-2009, 03:02
I believe it's actually the head of an archer's cocked arrow in Extreme Close Up!!! :D

Lord Dan
01-06-2009, 03:06
especially if it comprises units from nearby realms such as Nippon. ;)

Your little winking emoticon doesn't make me any less frustrated with your clues.

Hellebore
01-06-2009, 03:20
Cathay has often been referred to as Grand Cathay in the background.

Tau Empire was created to allow for copyright, as the word Tau isn't copyrightable. Cathay as an ancient word is probably not either, so Grand Cathay creates a distinct name that can be identified with a specific work.

The picture looks like a fan made piece of asian war art with a border and graphics over the top. Doing that is not hard in any graphics program.

Hellebore

Orcboy_Phil
01-06-2009, 04:18
If it is an actual pic of the cover I don't think its the full thing. Its not busy enougth for one thing. Its possible a crop from the cover thougth, you know as a teaser pic.

Vermin-thing
01-06-2009, 04:32
If it is an actual pic of the cover I don't think its the full thing. Its not busy enougth for one thing. Its possible a crop from the cover thougth, you know as a teaser pic.

I'm not saying your wrong, but why would they bother to add the border, and titles if it is indeed a crop? You may be right, because it seems odd that there's a hand with a bow sticking out of the left hand side. It seems inconsistent with GW's other army books.

Condottiere
01-06-2009, 05:21
The piture doesn't seem authentic because it shows bowmen, with Cathay you might want to demonstrate some more physical martial art in the foreground.

Scryer in the Darkness
01-06-2009, 06:07
The piture doesn't seem authentic because it shows bowmen, with Cathay you might want to demonstrate some more physical martial art in the foreground.
I don't know... my first thought about a Cathayan army would be massed archers and funky ballistic warmachines.

Condottiere
01-06-2009, 06:20
That would depend on the historical period - why not heavy chariots and some gravity defying monks?

Scryer in the Darkness
01-06-2009, 06:27
That would depend on the historical period - why not heavy chariots and some gravity defying monks?
Because that is silly. :p Nah, I was just saying what comes to mind for me for Cathay... especially from reading White Dwarf in the 80's where it was a bit more historical fantasy.

bomblu
01-06-2009, 06:39
Doesnt look legit and quite boring. They also look like 3d images and a showering arrows, which is kind of...strange...

And they look like high elf archers... :p

Phoenix1986
01-06-2009, 08:02
the Archers are from Kamigawa
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_arcana_849_pic1_en.jpg
Hail of Arrows from the Saviours of Kamigawa Expansion

I doubt GW would pay Hasbro for the rights to that.....

Tymell
01-06-2009, 08:14
Empire
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020058&prodId=prod1050130&rootCatGameStyle=wh
Wood Elves
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020074&prodId=prod1050142&rootCatGameStyle=

Can't get the links to work, but I assume they're for the current books.

This one still just doesn't look the same. Put this picture amid all the current army books, and it really sticks out. The actual core art style isn't the same, and nor is the composition: it's like a really close up shot of a bigger army picture, and while some Warhammer army books have that to a degree, it still doesn't feel the same. Plus it looks too real-world. All the current Warhammer army books look distinctly "fantasy" in some way, even Bretonnians. This Cathay one doesn't. They also usually have a variety of things in there, be it various units or elements of the land/place they inhabit. The army book cover always makes some kind of statement about the army in question, sums them up in some manner. Here it's just...some archers. I'm not saying it doesn't look like Catahy, which I agree we have no real basis for, I'm saying it doesn't look like a Warhammer army book.

Leogun_91
01-06-2009, 08:24
I don't see any kind of Scottish influence on GW Orcs' imagery or culture.Squigpipes.......they are bagpipes made of squigs and the squigherder models have them.

Suffererofinsanity
01-06-2009, 08:54
Well if this is genuine then we can possibly expect Cathay to be archery focussed... and a lot of people eating their words.

I may be wrong, but I don't think someone trying to create a fake Cathay army book cover would add 'Grand' to the name.

Leogun_91
01-06-2009, 08:58
Well if this is genuine then we can possibly expect Cathay to be archery focussed... and a lot of people eating their words.

I may be wrong, but I don't think someone trying to create a fake Cathay army book cover would add 'Grand' to the name.It is marked as Grand Cathay on the big worldmap so it wouldn´t be unlikely.

Ultimate Life Form
01-06-2009, 09:06
I too think the cover is a little weird and atypical for an Army Book. Nonetheless, I like how it fires up the rumour mongering!:D

However, if it is true, GW just missed out on a customer here, cuz since it's neither Nippon nor Fishmen, I'm not interested.:o My bank account will be happy though.:)

mrtn
01-06-2009, 09:11
Honestly, yelling fake isn't going to encourage people to provide more information.Agreed. Courtesy is good, and leaving people the benefit of the doubt as well.


The robes look distinctly like HE archers robes though. And what is with firing the behind his back? I think a descriptive word like 'Grand' in the army name seems a bit out of character of GW, but who knows. There have been a fair few personnel changes. And for all anyone knows this thumbnail could be just a draft.

Anyway, the viability of a new army coming soon grows larger yet again. Lets hope they live up to the suspense.
As others have said it's been described as "Grand Cathay" before, like on the world map. And Hellebore has a very good point in that that's more copyrightable.

Shan-Leng-Tzey
01-06-2009, 09:44
It could be the new cover for a Cathay armybook, but the art doesn't look GW. The composition is off...
If GW would make a Cathay armybook (which I would enjoy very much) the cover would look more like these two images:
Decisive battle in Korea (http://azazel1944.deviantart.com/art/Decisive-battle-in-Korea-60818031)
Battle at Hu Lao Gates (http://kingmong.deviantart.com/art/Battle-at-HU-Lao-Gates-18832408)
With probably some more fantasy elements on it

Condottiere
01-06-2009, 09:59
I'm unsure that S3/BS3 archery is going to be the mainstay of any Cathay army. They'd get eaten alive by any other list.

Stary_Kapec
01-06-2009, 10:20
It's a hoax!
1. The fonts used are not GW fonts. (Compare with other Armybooks.)
2. There is always some kind of 'boss' on a cover, but on this one there are only rank and file troops.

Vermin-thing
01-06-2009, 10:35
I'm unsure that S3/BS3 archery is going to be the mainstay of any Cathay army. They'd get eaten alive by any other list.

Maybe it will be a Skaven type hoard with mass blocks of archers that fire in 2-3 ranks. :p "Our arrows will blot out the sun". ~300 :D

Cathayan Bowmen:

Cost: 8 points per model.

4/3/3(4)/3/3/1/4/1/6 Unit size: 20+


Options: Standard bearer: 6 points, Champion: 8, Musician: 6, the unit may have flaming arrows for 2 points a model

Equipment: Light armor, Cathayan Longbow,"Our arrows will blot out the sun": fire in 2 ranks (3 when on a hill)

Cathayan Longbow: folded steel arrows (-1 save), 36" range, 2X shots.
:cheese: :)

Notice the Gw logo, and 'warhammer armies', they are in the wrong font, off center, and theres no 'tm' sign on the GW logo. This really saddens me, it looked interesting, and a Byplane would have been way too cool. T_T

Leogun_91
01-06-2009, 10:40
Maybe it will be a Skaven type hoard with mass blocks of archers that fire in 2-3 ranks. :p "Our arrows will blot out the sun". ~300 :D

Cathayan Bowmen:

Cost: 6

4/3/3/3/3/1/4/1/6 Unit size: 20+

Equipment: Light armor, Cathayan Longbow, fire in 2 ranks (3 when on a hill)

Cathayan Longbow: folded steel arrows (-1 save), 36" range, 2X shots. :cheese: :)How the hell do you get them to be the same points cost as Brettonian peasant archers. That should be much more expensive.

Vermin-thing
01-06-2009, 11:03
How the hell do you get them to be the same points cost as Brettonian peasant archers. That should be much more expensive.

Upped to 8.

First, Brettonia is outdated, and under powered. Second, the state line is the same as or worse than empire spearmen, besides the champion. seventh, your going to be using a butt load of these guys, so a lower cost is the best option. Stat wise there average for a rank and file solder.

Also the newer army books don't have a 'tm' logo on them, although the 'warhammer armies' text still looks too far to the left.

Brother Siccarius
01-06-2009, 11:05
I think a descriptive word like 'Grand' in the army name seems a bit out of character of GW, but who knows.


Unlike "High", "Dark", and "Wood" elves.

rhys60
01-06-2009, 11:16
Unlike "High", "Dark", and "Wood" elves.

True, but im guessing we're not gna be getting any other variety of cathay so it doesn't really apply here.:rolleyes: ;)

Condottiere
01-06-2009, 11:21
Elves have to be differentiated, unless you title the codices Asur, Asrai and Druchii - which would upset the marketing department.

Brother Siccarius
01-06-2009, 11:26
Elves have to be differentiated, unless you title the codices Asur, Asrai and Druchii - which would upset the marketing department.

Just pointing out that the descriptors aren't out of the question. Army Books also don't always just display the names based on the geographical region either (ie: Tomb Kings).

Condottiere
01-06-2009, 11:35
Book covers usually require some thought, as the presentation is supposed to get a customer interested and persuade him to make a snap judgement to purchase the item.

That includes the colour scheme, artwork and title.

Showing me a bunch of archers and titling it to inform me it's a Sino-esque army book isn't going to make me make that impulse buy. Showing me stuff that we normally associate with a Far eastern mainland culture, will be far more effective.

Ultimate Life Form
01-06-2009, 12:13
Army Books also don't always just display the names based on the geographical region either (ie: Tomb Kings).

Amusingly (and hardly understandably), the German name of the Tomb Kings is Gruftkönige von Khemri.:p

Vermin-thing
01-06-2009, 12:39
Amusingly (and hardly understandably), the German name of the Tomb Kings is Gruftkönige von Khemri.:p

You learn something every day. :D

Anyways I'm having second thoughts about whether or not this army book is legit. It seems inline with the Vampire Counts, and Lizardmen books in terms of text placement, as well as font. BTW if you look closely at the top there is indeed a supper sized arrow head, and a pile of arrow feathers in upper the background. Still if thats a byplain...

loveless
01-06-2009, 13:06
Gonna call fake on it. There's no real focal point or central figure - even on the Imperial Guard codex your eye is drawn to the primary guardsmen.

Even if they did just want to focus on archers, I'd imagine they'd still have a character of sorts somewhere on it.

Also, it's not that hard to fake a GW cover - there's was an impressive Codex: Grey Knights cover that was going around that matched up perfectly with GW Codex design. It was, however, never even passed off as the real thing - just a "If they did it, I wish it would look like..."

It's just too blah of a picture to use for cover art.

Jedi152
01-06-2009, 13:25
To be honest, that's one of the least convincing fakes i've ever seen.

The font is wrong, the picture clearly isn't in the Warhammer style etc.

I still cannot believe how many 'discussions', fake pictures and posters swearing they know the truth we've had stemmed from one single post by a barely trustworthy source.

ghost21
01-06-2009, 13:31
just got this picture sent to me, my source says its a thumbnail for gws site that hasn't gone online yet :O it could be the cover for the new book
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4249/gcthumbnail.jpg

if it is its the most unexciting cover ever...
especially ive heard that these new models are supposedly some of the best ever made let down by a naff cover for the army book??

Gargobot
01-06-2009, 13:37
the Archers are from Kamigawa
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_arcana_849_pic1_en.jpg
Hail of Arrows from the Saviours of Kamigawa Expansion

I doubt GW would pay Hasbro for the rights to that.....

I'm quite suprised it's still being discussed, this pic is from Magic. As pointed out by Phoenix1986.
Here's another pic of the card (http://bidwicket.com/Item/C/Collectible_Card_Games/Magic_the_Gathering/Singles/Saviors_of_Kamigawa/32518_1M_Hail_of_Arrows.JPEG)

TreManor
01-06-2009, 13:38
Can't get the links to work, but I assume they're for the current books.

This one still just doesn't look the same. Put this picture amid all the current army books, and it really sticks out. The actual core art style isn't the same, and nor is the composition: it's like a really close up shot of a bigger army picture, and while some Warhammer army books have that to a degree, it still doesn't feel the same. Plus it looks too real-world. All the current Warhammer army books look distinctly "fantasy" in some way, even Bretonnians. This Cathay one doesn't. They also usually have a variety of things in there, be it various units or elements of the land/place they inhabit. The army book cover always makes some kind of statement about the army in question, sums them up in some manner. Here it's just...some archers. I'm not saying it doesn't look like Catahy, which I agree we have no real basis for, I'm saying it doesn't look like a Warhammer army book.



Yepper. As much as I would LOVE to see Cathay as the next army release, this cover is a fake all the way. GW is a brand and they work very hard to maintain that brand. Using a cover like that would be like Levis making tweed jackets. not to mention I think that that particular cover is FAR too boring and plain jane for an army book cover. If they are going to bring out something like Cathay I would expect much more in the way of " Big Guns" design....... And probably Gun units on the cover right next to spearmen and mounted archers and certainly an Asian Dragon. Without those things I woudl say almost any cover ( unless published directly from GW ) is a fake.



but here's hopign for Cathay!!! :D:D

bomblu
01-06-2009, 13:39
Guys...It has already been said it was fake by Phoenix1986.....


the Archers are from Kamigawa
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_arcana_849_pic1_en.jpg
Hail of Arrows from the Saviours of Kamigawa Expansion

I doubt GW would pay Hasbro for the rights to that.....

Edit: Ninja'd by Gargobot Kirby man :p

loveless
01-06-2009, 13:47
Grr...dang WarSeer not taking me to the actual last post I read...made me miss Phoenix's post before. Ah well - I was still right in saying it was a fake :p

Tlotsqi
01-06-2009, 13:52
but here's hopign for Cathay!!!

Just do it:p

Condottiere
01-06-2009, 14:10
Interesting, I missed that post as well.

Ultimate Life Form
01-06-2009, 14:13
Interesting, I missed that post as well.

Yeah, me too. It's all WarSeer's fault, purposely misguiding us to heat up rumours discussion, grumble... grumble....

Scryer in the Darkness
01-06-2009, 14:15
Teh lolz! :D

Mr.chair
01-06-2009, 14:58
I have to say I'm not especially excited by the idea of a Cathayan army. It seems like something that would be pretty goofy and thin. We've got dwarves, elves, and goblins, so what are we missing? Oh yeah! Chinese people! Luckily I don't think it will be an issue as I'm calling BS on the whole thing right now. You're all my witnesses. I know it's fun to sit around and circle jerk about a new army, but are you guys really really buying this stuff with so little backing it up? I'll be the first one to be pleasantly surprised if it's true, but I'm not going to break my piggy bank for wishful thinking ;)

Deus Mechanicus
01-06-2009, 15:17
Haha yeah do you have any idea how difficult it is to find any high resolution decent fantasy-esque asian inspired artwork that would fit on an army book? I swear i googled for an hour before settling on a low res picture from magic. I even tried to emulate the font best i could, I was going to post a full cover picture. Here it is

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6414/fantasycover.jpg

But obviously it had to be cropped and a little blurred so at least some would speculate it in being the cover :D

Yeah the picture is from Hail of Arrows from Kamigawa expansion in Magic (i like the fact that the discussion went on even after it was exposed ;)) The 'Grand' was just added since it says Grand Cathay on my map (and i personally like Grand Cathay over just Cathay ;))

Had anyone checked my posting history you'd seen that i tried something simillar in the Blood Ravens codex thread (with less convincing results!)

Cheers on you all, it was an interesting discussion! I for one hope Cathay will be the army (though with a better cover!).

At least we all had some fun and laughs :D

Shamfrit
01-06-2009, 15:47
the Archers are from Kamigawa
http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_arcana_849_pic1_en.jpg
Hail of Arrows from the Saviours of Kamigawa Expansion

I doubt GW would pay Hasbro for the rights to that.....

Awww, I was hoping I was the first to point it out :(

Condottiere
01-06-2009, 15:54
The only way a Cathay army will sell if a third or half the book were filled with gimmicks; though, to be fair, they might be interesting gimmicks.

Mr.chair
01-06-2009, 16:05
I'm positing right now that they'll have bamboo walk crouching tiger style. Units with the ability will treat any bamboo groves as open ground.

Dead Man Walking
01-06-2009, 16:17
It makes sense that they would release Cathay, as the thing that was seperating them from the east was the Ogre Kingdom and the rugged landscape, since the Ogre Kingdom was introduced last edition it only makes sense to march in the Cathay.

Jim
01-06-2009, 16:17
Haha yeah do you have any idea how difficult it is to find any high resolution decent fantasy-esque asian inspired artwork that would fit on an army book? I swear i googled for an hour before settling on a low res picture from magic. I even tried to emulate the font best i could, I was going to post a full cover picture. Here it is

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6414/fantasycover.jpg

But obviously it had to be cropped and a little blurred so at least some would speculate it in being the cover :D

Yeah the picture is from Hail of Arrows from Kamigawa expansion in Magic (i like the fact that the discussion went on even after it was exposed ;)) The 'Grand' was just added since it says Grand Cathay on my map (and i personally like Grand Cathay over just Cathay ;))

Had anyone checked my posting history you'd seen that i tried something simillar in the Blood Ravens codex thread (with less convincing results!)

Cheers on you all, it was an interesting discussion! I for one hope Cathay will be the army (though with a better cover!).

At least we all had some fun and laughs :D

:rolleyes::eyebrows:

Lamhirh
01-06-2009, 17:00
You would think the Cathayan emperor would appear somewhere. The fact that he is a flippin dragon (http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs20/f/2007/243/0/8/Wisdom_of_Ages_by_JasonEngle.jpg) alone makes him more visually impressive than Malekith and Tyrion put together. So either the cover for the AB is a placeholder or it's a fake :eyebrows:.

Lord Dan
01-06-2009, 17:18
At least we all had some fun and laughs :D

By "we" you mean...?

Killshot
01-06-2009, 17:45
Maybe it is a Cathay Blood Bowl team:

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202302

Voss
01-06-2009, 18:12
You would think the Cathayan emperor would appear somewhere. The fact that he is a flippin dragon (http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs20/f/2007/243/0/8/Wisdom_of_Ages_by_JasonEngle.jpg) alone makes him more visually impressive than Malekith and Tyrion put together. So either the cover for the AB is a placeholder or it's a fake :eyebrows:.

Do I even want to know where this idea came from? GW hasn't done serious background work on Cathay in years (really, ever. There was a brief novellete where they were all implied to be tzeentch worshippers, under a different name, but not much content). But just as a reminder that referring to someone as a 'dragon emperor' isn't necessarily a literal thing. Any more than Richard the Lion-hearted was born with the heart of a lion in his chest.

Harry
01-06-2009, 20:17
Originally Posted by Batwings

'i have it on good authority the new race will be cathay'

'No you don't.

If you have it at all, you have it on bad authority.

There is no new race coming within the foreseeable future.'


quote your source.
__________________

Happy to:

Everybody that works at the GW Design Studio.

Can't say I understand why the usual fonts of Warseer wisdom have chosen to remain unusually tight-lipped on this one, but I believe most of them know nothing's coming.

I'm not usually one to post on topics like this, preferring to stay under the radar but something about this never-ending series of ill-informed posts has wound me up no end.

Now of course, it's hard to post evidence of non-existence so many of you may choose to disregard my comments so I shall leave you with this - I've been closely involved with the GW studio for 20 years and whilst I no longer keep tabs on every new release and project under development, I have chatted with old friends there during recent weeks.

Make of that what you will.
I make of it that you are the only person on this thread who has any idea what there talking about. :D


As much as I have more reason than anyone to wish for a Cathay army, I unfortunately have little to offer here in the positive. I have my own sources, of varying closeness to the studio and nobody has corroborated that there is a big secret new race for warhammer in the works. They HAVE corroborated that there is a big secret project in the works, and what it is, but unfortunately it's not actually what most people think it is. Lot of mixed up rumors going around.
Well maybe not the only person.

Still we still have the results of your magnificent efforts on the Cathay army to put us on for a while.


I for one appreciate the clarification. Though if everyone that works in the Design Studio knew you were going to post it on warseer they might have been intentionally misleading! :D I'm impressed that you know everyone in the studio closely enough to chat with them about these things.

So we now have one person who is willing to go on record stating what he believes. Is there anyone else willing to report they also know it's cathay? As I said, for something like this where the usual suspects stay silent, we need a lot more people than usual to say the same thing.

Of all the secret projects in the pipeline I have heard nothing about a "new army".

Brother Siccarius
01-06-2009, 20:26
Of all the secret projects in the pipeline I have heard nothing about a "new army".

Now you tell us. This could have ended three topics ago with that.


You would think the Cathayan emperor would appear somewhere. The fact that he is a flippin dragon (http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs20/f/2007/243/0/8/Wisdom_of_Ages_by_JasonEngle.jpg) alone makes him more visually impressive than Malekith and Tyrion put together. So either the cover for the AB is a placeholder or it's a fake :eyebrows:.

The assumption that he's a vampire lord has more merit than him being a dragon. For one thing I haven't heard anything in the Warhammer world about dragons speaking to humans, or morphing into them as they can do in other fantasy worlds.

Orcboy_Phil
01-06-2009, 20:31
Now you tell us. This could have ended three topics ago with that.

Notice the quotation marks around "new army", this indicates that if a new faction ios being added its not new, its something that we've seen before. So thats Chaos Dwarfs, Fimir and Zoats or possibly a Necromancer army. Another possibility is a Nipponise army they had one of these in third ed as an allied detatchment.

Harry
01-06-2009, 20:32
Now you tell us. This could have ended three topics ago with that.
I know but I had been asked not to confirm or deny stuff that was so far ahead ... but this was just getting silly.

Aflo
01-06-2009, 20:37
I know but I had been asked not to confirm or deny stuff that was so far ahead ... but this was just getting silly.

Thanks for the confirmation Harry, now lets put this to bed.

Ixquic
01-06-2009, 20:37
I guess there's so little going on right now people are desperate for anything fantasy related at all that isn't overpriced plastic models.


Notice the quotation marks around "new army", this indicates that if a new faction ios being added its not new, its something that we've seen before. So thats Chaos Dwarfs, Fimir and Zoats or possibly a Necromancer army. Another possibility is a Nipponise army they had one of these in third ed as an allied detatchment.

Don't do this to yourself.

75hastings69
01-06-2009, 20:48
So you're saying Zoats then Harry ... right ;)

Batwings
01-06-2009, 21:05
Hallelujah to Harry!

I feel I should apologise to anyone who felt my earlier comments were somewhat curt. It was not my intention to offend but I found myself aggravated by what seemed (to me at least) to be the deliberate fanning of non-existent flames by a few mischievous members.

Of course we all want to see cool new stuff, but utterly unsubstaniated rumour and obviously faked Photoshop book covers does not bring that coolness any closer.

Ultimate Life Form
01-06-2009, 21:20
So now we finally know there will be no Cathay and no Fishmen and no nothing in the forseeable future. What was that original thread about, then?

That leaves the question why we don't see anything Skaven or something? Let's close this thread which has outlived its usefulness and start finally digging up some Skaven rumours!:D

Grimstonefire
01-06-2009, 21:21
Hallelujah to Harry!

I feel I should apologise to anyone who felt my earlier comments were somewhat curt. It was not my intention to offend but I found myself aggravated by what seemed (to me at least) to be the deliberate fanning of non-existent flames by a few mischievous members.

Of course we all want to see cool new stuff, but utterly unsubstaniated rumour and obviously faked Photoshop book covers does not bring that coolness any closer.

Sorry, I thought you were one of the ones saying it was Cathay earlier?

This at least brings an end to this mystery.

Tokamak
01-06-2009, 21:21
Oh well, that means more energy spent on beastmen and skaven, they deserve it.

Lord Dan
01-06-2009, 21:27
Harry mentioned in another thread that if there was an army being worked on it was not "new". By bringing this up I would like to point out the difference between the phrases "There is no secret new army coming out" and "There is no secret army coming out". So before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of "hah, I told you there was no secret project" you might consider the specific application of quotations in his post.

loveless
01-06-2009, 21:31
Of all the secret projects in the pipeline I have heard nothing about a "new army".

Harry, your use of quotes is going to kill all of the Skink Priests, you ridiculous old Slann :p

Ultimate Life Form
01-06-2009, 21:31
Harry mentioned in another thread that if there was an army being worked on it was not "new". By bringing this up I would like to point out the difference between the phrases "There is no secret new army coming out" and "There is no secret army coming out". So before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of "hah, I told you there was no secret project" you might consider the specific application of quotations in his post.

If it's not new, how can it be secret? That basically leaves Fimir and Chaos Dwarves, neither of which I'm interested in in the least. Fork over the Skaven already!

pox
01-06-2009, 21:38
What I really love about the warseer rumor section is the feeling that all of four people know what's coming out, they feel the need to express that they know from time to time, and yet don't actually offer any information because they were told not to.

I wish I was cool enough to be in the super-secret club, that way I too could let everyone know that I knew what was coming out, and that they don't get to know.

@^#%$ fishmongers.

Harry
01-06-2009, 21:44
This is not working out well for me is it. :D

Dammed if I do Dammed if I don't. :D

Grimstonefire
01-06-2009, 21:44
Harry is the undisputed master of the quote marks, and he is awesome at using the power of the winking smiley ;)

In truth I think it's quite fun discussing the flow of rumours for and against each prospect. There are so many levels to all these rumours, and sneaky hints for all races cropping up in other places both here and on other forums. I've never known so many people to know what something is, but all disagree!

Great times.

Ultimate Life Form
01-06-2009, 21:46
This is not working out well for me is it. :D

Dammed if I do Dammed if I don't. :D

That's the risk you have to live with. No matter how it turns out, one side will always hold you responsible. But I think we can apply mitigating circumstances if you spill the beans now.

Tokamak
01-06-2009, 22:17
What I don't understand is how people who yell "OMG THESE WILL BE THE BEST MODELS EVER! YOUR EYES WILL POP OUT! OMG" can get away with it, not only that, but also rack up incredibly long threads with what's basically a hoax.

Mireadur
01-06-2009, 22:18
Upped to 8.

First, Brettonia is outdated, and under powered. Second, the state line is the same as or worse than empire spearmen, besides the champion. seventh, your going to be using a butt load of these guys, so a lower cost is the best option. Stat wise there average for a rank and file solder.

Also the newer army books don't have a 'tm' logo on them, although the 'warhammer armies' text still looks too far to the left.

I feel relieved knowing you will never write an armybook seeing how you punctuate units. :rolleyes:

Grontik
01-06-2009, 22:21
Really. Haven't we learned already that keeping secrets just causes more harm than good. And to think of the burden placed on those who must live with this knowledge. Victims!! That's what you guys are and I for one am there for you if you need someone to help carry the burden. Right here ... just let me know ... whenever ... before September would be good ... carrying secrets during the hot season and all that ...

Ender Shadowkin
01-06-2009, 22:25
I think no "new" army would encompanse things like blowing up former Allied contingents into full blown lists. So that would include this zoats nonsense (not that I don't love zoats! ) , although I would love to see a hobgoblin horde . .. could go well with a chaos dwarf re-tooling, maybe both in the same book.

Although . . . can anyone confirm or deny the presence of Various "Don't tell Harry about the new CXXXXy Army" posters and Harry Mug shots alll over GW, with further instructions on changing the subject to pies if he inquires?

Well . . . .Chaos Dwarvers would seam to take the the current rumor lead as the likely new secret thing then, Although I am still intrigued and curious about the "cataclysmic" changes the very original rumor starter mentioned. Could be also be a jump start into 8th edition, re-invisioning of a DoW list with Allied contingents, or full blow launch into a legendary battles type system. Or he could be smokin the Chronic. All of which is fine by me. ;)

librerian_samae
01-06-2009, 22:31
Hating to say it but could all this just be a big misunderstanding along the lines of an old game being redone like blood bowl?

Tuatha Dar
01-06-2009, 22:32
Thanks for the confirmation Harry, now lets put this to bed.

That's too bad.

Right when I thought that GW might actually do something new and exciting for a change.

Oh well, at least Privateer Press is still doing new, potentially cool things:

http://www.privateerpress.com/warmachine/retribution-of-scyrah-preview-page

Tuatha

Grimstonefire
01-06-2009, 22:34
That thread the other day about what Joe (whatever his surname is), the 'eavy metal guy said there were units and characters.

I doubt that applies to blood bowl, hopefully he would know the difference ;)

@Ender
I agree, that does make things very interesting doesn't it. I've been trying to figure out how that post could apply to Chaos Dwarfs as well since it started. Not much luck so far, hence why it seemed unlikely to be them.

It's probably worth going back and reading it again.

Lamhirh
01-06-2009, 23:53
Do I even want to know where this idea came from? GW hasn't done serious background work on Cathay in years (really, ever. There was a brief novellete where they were all implied to be tzeentch worshippers, under a different name, but not much content). But just as a reminder that referring to someone as a 'dragon emperor' isn't necessarily a literal thing. Any more than Richard the Lion-hearted was born with the heart of a lion in his chest.

I wish I could find the specific bit of fluff that implies that the dragon emperor is, in fact, a dragon. I am not making this up and yes I know the difference :rolleyes:. After all, Finubar is called the phoenix king but he doesn't turn into a giant fiery bird :eyebrows:.

Some say the dragon emperor could be one of the jade-blooded. This too could be the case, what is pretty obvious is that he isn't human. At least not entirely.

Orcboy_Phil
02-06-2009, 00:18
The Warhammer Rulebook refers to the belief in the old world that the Dragon Emporer is infact a dragon.

Gork or Possibly Mork
02-06-2009, 00:32
Man I wish someone in the know would just come out and say it.

"Yes GW is making _____ Army. What that will include I can't speculate."

Or

"No GW is not making a new army ( or re-visiting a known old army that didn't get a book ) anytime soon. They will just be updating current books."

I have to say I find it strange the lack of any solid info at all besides one man's detailed account of the future BOC, vague sniffs of some rat cheese
and highly unbelievable rumours of just about every army under the sun getting an update "Soon TM"

sing Sang a song
02-06-2009, 01:40
I highly doubt that GW will make army based on Cathay, because of 2 reason.

1.IF they actually make a Cathay army they will have to add on with Nippon, and Araby.
2.IF they do it, they will have a headach to come up with Campaign, and other event.

And personally it isnt very "Warhammer" like if they adds Cathay,(which will bring in Nippon and Araby) like someone has stated before, it will make the game more like history based on Fantasy game.

for example
Next campaign will be Silk Road! Cathay vs evey other races in warhammer!
Help Cathay protect their trade route with empire, and Bret, by guarding their caravan against Ogres, Skaven, Orcs & gob, chaos, and DE. HE and Lizard are just came to watch them fight for fun....

See? stupid fluffs if they add Cathay

Kmaz
02-06-2009, 01:51
I highly doubt that GW will make army based on Cathay, because of 2 reason.

1.IF they actually make a Cathay army they will have to add on with Nippon, and Araby.
2.IF they do it, they will have a headach to come up with Campaign, and other event.

And personally it isnt very "Warhammer" like if they adds Cathay,(which will bring in Nippon and Araby) like someone has stated before, it will make the game more like history based on Fantasy game.

for example
Next campaign will be Silk Road! Cathay vs evey other races in warhammer!
Help Cathay protect their trade route with empire, and Bret, by guarding their caravan against Ogres, Skaven, Orcs & gob, chaos, and DE. HE and Lizard are just came to watch them fight for fun....

See? stupid fluffs if they add Cathay

Disclaimer: 4 year hiatus from the hobby.

First, I think a Cathay army would kick ass. Second, I don't think the bolded part is a problem. Cathay would be on the side of 'good' (right?) and therefore will battle Chaos and others in different locales than the Old Worlders (Tau-esque.) I'm sure they have events with Chaos, Skaven, DE, etc just like the Old World. Now it would be strange to see them battle an Old Worlder army (maybe not Empire traders, DE/HE/world spanners) but isn't that also true about Lizardmen? Enough of my nonsense though, Cathay is a good thing to flesh out for the game. There's a lot of potential to work with and models that I'm sure would at least allow for good conversions.

loveless
02-06-2009, 01:59
for example
Next campaign will be Silk Road! Cathay vs evey other races in warhammer!
Help Cathay protect their trade route with empire, and Bret, by guarding their caravan against Ogres, Skaven, Orcs & gob, chaos, and DE. HE and Lizard are just came to watch them fight for fun....

See? stupid fluffs if GW hired sing Sang a song to write fluff

Fixed ;)

Do not assume that because you cannot write fluff that no one else can.