View Full Version : magic VC vs WoC

30-05-2009, 04:28
For magic geared VC how do you protect your lord against WoC puppet+ tounge combo. Seems like this combo has a decent chance of killing you rlord in turn 1 and if it fails with killing him at least to take away his favorite spell whatever that is (depends on the list).

30-05-2009, 04:34
What is puppet and tounge combo. I don't know much about WoC but I play vampire counts.

30-05-2009, 04:56
spam invocation on 1dice?

30-05-2009, 05:32
The Black Tongue is a one use item that can turn a failed casting into a miscast.

The Infernal Puppet is an item that lets the WoC player change the miscast results for both himself and opponent by d3.

The idea is of course to force a miscast at a critical moment with the tongue and make sure something good happens with the Puppet.

As for defending against it...

Killing the bearer of one or both items is about all you can do... there isn't really a way to stop it really. Just usually it doesn't do much. Much like most things in WoC it -can- devastate an army but it is hit or miss. It could do that, or do absolutely nothing.

Lord Yawgmoth
30-05-2009, 15:45
Invo Spam,
accept the 1 miscast he is going to get on you first turn.

If you roll a 2(1/36) or 3(2/36) your General is dead.
If you roll a 4(3/36) your general has a 2/3 chance of death.
If you roll a 5(4/36) your general has a 1/3 chance of death.

Any other result is a wound or something else silly.

9/108 + 6/108 + 4/108 ~17%

If you aren't willing to risk a 17% chance, then kill all models you think might possible have the tongue before casting any spells from your general.

30-05-2009, 16:24
I played against an army with this combo the other day. Here's what I did:
-Always used 2-3 dice to cast with my Vampire Lord. If that means your magic phase aint so effective, boo hoo. And yes, you might miscast this way anyway, sheet happens.
-Sometimes used 1-2 dice to cast with my lesser Vamps as normal; here when they failed to cast my opponent didn't bother activating the Tongue, so they were ok.
-Mashed his army while he sat there hoping for a free chance at my Lord... just didn't give it to him.

If you're that scared, just don't cast with your Lord.

30-05-2009, 17:05
I would simply recommend using more power dice. You might get a miscast but it is better than automatically getting a miscast. Also you are VC you should already have a ton of power dice at you disposal so it is fine if you have to use up a couple more than you would like.

31-05-2009, 05:25
I disagree with both fubuki and Lord Yawgmoth there is simply too high a chance of your lord dying to risk it, instead do what Evc said. Use 2-3 dice for your lord and continue casting normally for your vampire heroes.

31-05-2009, 08:39
Less than once in every 5 games is not a high chance. So most of the time nothing exceptional bad will happen to your lord and you can be happy to get half VP for the sorcerer using the Black Tongue.


31-05-2009, 09:18
If you aren't willing to risk a 17% chance, then kill all models you think might possible have the tongue before casting any spells from your general.

That's a 17% chance of instantly losing the game on turn one, which is far too much for my liking;)

I think EvC is spot on; keep casting as safe as possible with your general, thus forcing the WoC player to use the puppet on a lesser vamp or risk not using it at all.

31-05-2009, 11:02
17% risk of losing the game and if you also include the risk of losing for example IoN on one of your casters it is actually a rather useful combo against VC.

31-05-2009, 13:28
'cast safe' only works when you know the opponent is using the combo, i.e. you're playing an open list. Formulated otherwise, it's never useful.