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Icewalker
27-12-2005, 17:50
I would like to craft some rules for Lü Bu, probably the most assanine of characters ever to have roamed. Anyone who can help, plz do.Here are his stats. Oh yeah, he costs about 350.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 10 8 4 4 3 10 6 10
Weapons/Armour/Wargear: Lunar Spear, Red Hare, Heavy Armour, Shield, Long Bow.

Squad: 1

SPECIAL RULES:
Completely Untrustworthy: Lü Bu is notorious for being completely untrustworthy; to represent this he always stand alone; he may not be joined by any unit, or may he join with another unit.

Incredibly Marksmen: Lü Bu is an incredible marksmen and can re-roll one miss with his long bow. In addition, his long bow shoots at a strengh of 4 instead of 3.

Lunar Spear: Counts as a lance w/ -1 plus any other modifiers on enemy armour saves.

Red Hare: Has a Movement of 9.

I realize that these rules are probably really bad, but plz cut me some slack.

ps. could he be an RoR?

IncubiLord
27-12-2005, 20:22
You forgot that his spear hits every model in every unit he's involved in melee with. :D
And he should be S5, T5. He's much bigger, stronger, and tougher than any mere hero...

Icewalker
28-12-2005, 02:04
You forgot that his spear hits every model in every unit he's involved in melee with. :D
And he should be S5, T5. He's much bigger, stronger, and tougher than any mere hero...
I see; how is he now? Still overpowered I think.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 10 8 5 5 3 10 6 10
Weapons/Armour/Wargear: Lunar Spear, Red Hare, Heavy Armour, Shield, Long Bow.

Squad: 1

SPECIAL RULES:
Completely Untrustworthy: Lü Bu is notorious for being completely untrustworthy; to represent this he always stand alone; he may not be joined by any unit, or may he join with another unit.

Incredibly Marksmen: Lü Bu is an incredible marksmen and can re-roll one miss with his long bow. In addition, his long bow shoots at a strengh of 4 instead of 3.

Lunar Spear: Counts as a lance w/ -1 plus any other modifiers on enemy armour saves.

Red Hare: Has a Movement of 9.

skavenguy13
30-12-2005, 13:10
BS8 is way excessive. Inless he S&S at skirmishers in a forest, or something worse, he will always need 2+ to hit. Plus his re-roll with the longbow. BS5 would be more like it - most lords have 4.

For the red hare, I'd say yes for M9, but -1 for the barding.

And 6 attacks? I think 5 would be enough for someone like him.

Icewalker
03-01-2006, 22:38
BS8 is way excessive. Inless he S&S at skirmishers in a forest, or something worse, he will always need 2+ to hit. Plus his re-roll with the longbow. BS5 would be more like it - most lords have 4.

For the red hare, I'd say yes for M9, but -1 for the barding.

And 6 attacks? I think 5 would be enough for someone like him.
Right right. Not too familiar with Fantasy. Anyhoo, new profile.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 10 5 5 5 3 10 5 10
Weapons/Armour/Wargear: Lunar Spear, Red Hare, Heavy Armour, Shield, Long Bow.

Squad: 1

SPECIAL RULES:
Completely Untrustworthy: Lü Bu is notorious for being completely untrustworthy; to represent this he always stand alone; he may not be joined by any unit, or may he join with another unit.

Incredibly Marksmen: Lü Bu is an incredible marksmen and can re-roll one miss with his long bow. In addition, his long bow shoots at a strengh of 4 instead of 3.

Lunar Spear: Counts as a lance w/ -1 plus any other modifiers on enemy armour saves.

Red Hare: Has a base movement of 9. Since the Red Hare is barded, it still suffers -1 M because of barding.

How's that?

Hideous Loon
03-01-2006, 22:53
Who IS Lü Bu? A little-known Fantasy character?

IncubiLord
03-01-2006, 23:54
Dynasty Warriors unlockable character.
On the higher difficulties, he is a royal pain in the rear end.
After you unlock him and level him up, he's pretty much unstoppable.
He's really better when dismounted, but that's part of the game in general. Swings of his halberd hit every guy on the screen, he gets the best stats, and he's kinda cool on top of being the best warrior around.

pyramid_head
04-01-2006, 06:10
Dynasty Warriors unlockable character.
On the higher difficulties, he is a royal pain in the rear end.
After you unlock him and level him up, he's pretty much unstoppable.
He's really better when dismounted, but that's part of the game in general. Swings of his halberd hit every guy on the screen, he gets the best stats, and he's kinda cool on top of being the best warrior around.


oh god, he was a real person dude.

IncubiLord
04-01-2006, 06:34
Yes, he was.
But not in this context.
Here, we're discussing the character based on the real person.

Icewalker
04-01-2006, 11:28
Yes, he was.
But not in this context.
Here, we're discussing the character based on the real person.
I thought that he was an *******. Am I right when I say this? A great but arrogent and cruel sonovobich right?

PS. Pardon my french.

IncubiLord
04-01-2006, 23:58
Are we back to discussing the fictional character?
I'm not a fan of history.
If so, then yes, he was an arrogant sonova... who really only cared about getting his money. He also had a psychological disorder that made him see anybody who didn't try to kill the enemy in a head-on charge as a coward. I seem to remember a mission where he kills his employers for deciding to stay in their fort instead of fighting...

P.S. You might want to edit your fr*nch, just to be on the safe side.

Sandlemad
05-01-2006, 14:25
In the game, I don't remember him having a shield. A little buckler thing but he never really used it. Hes not a very defensive kind of person.

Perhaps something that says that everyone nearby has -1 leadership, friends and enemies? The fear of Lu Bu coming was emphasised very heavily. Enemies feared him coming to kill them and friends feared him thinking them cowardly.

Okuto
05-01-2006, 15:52
Lu Bu was a real person, he took a castle and lost, then proceeded to get strangled to death as his execution(this was considered a dishonorable way to die, but Lord Cao Cao considered it fitting for Lu Bu, Getting beheaded is considered honorable and fitting of great warriors though Zhang Liao was spared due to his willingness to die).

Though Lu Bu was also and fine archer, he was able to shoot a arrow through his halberd perfectly

skavenguy13
05-01-2006, 16:40
And I thought those stories were from books :eyebrows:
Anyway, what about saying "in CC, he prefers using his Lunar Spear with both hands, adding an extra -1 to enemy armor save due to strength of the blow. This also means that he doesn't use his shield in CC."
That's the way I see him.

Icewalker
09-01-2006, 11:41
Though Lu Bu was also and fine archer, he was able to shoot a arrow through his halberd perfectly
I still think it'd be smarter to go and shoot through a blade of grass perfectly. :D That would be something wouldn't it? So anything else do you think? I'll get rid of the shield.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 10 5 5 5 3 10 5 10
Weapons/Armour/Wargear: Lunar Spear, Red Hare, Heavy Armour, Long Bow.

Squad: 1

SPECIAL RULES:
Completely Untrustworthy: Lü Bu is notorious for being completely untrustworthy; to represent this he always stand alone; he may not be joined by any unit, or may he join with another unit. In addition to being completely untrustworthy, any base within 12" of Lü Bu are at -1 Ld.

Incredibly Marksmen: Lü Bu is an incredible marksmen and was able to shoot a blod perfectly through his halberd. He can re-roll one miss with his long bow. In addition, his long bow shoots at a strengh of 4 instead of 3.

Lunar Spear: Counts as a lance w/ -1 plus any other modifiers on enemy armour saves.

Red Hare: Has a base movement of 9. Since the Red Hare is barded, it still suffers -1 M because of barding.


How bout now?

Scanno
12-01-2006, 09:53
I take it Red Hare is a regular horse other than the extra movement?

Oh, and a points cost would be nice; he's as strong in combat as a blood dragon vampire lord! If he's supposed to be human, the stats are possibly ott, I 10, WS 10 are something very few models have. He does look quite killable from shooting though. Oh, and does that -1 ld thingy affect his own side or the enemy or both? I assume that the completely untrustworthy rule means he cannot be the army general?

Overall looks fierce but beatable, as he seems to deal a lot of damage, but can't take it very well.

bl4ck0pz
21-01-2006, 13:59
I take it Red Hare is a regular horse other than the extra movement?

Oh, and a points cost would be nice; he's as strong in combat as a blood dragon vampire lord! If he's supposed to be human, the stats are possibly ott, I 10, WS 10 are something very few models have. He does look quite killable from shooting though. Oh, and does that -1 ld thingy affect his own side or the enemy or both? I assume that the completely untrustworthy rule means he cannot be the army general?

Overall looks fierce but beatable, as he seems to deal a lot of damage, but can't take it very well.
I second. He seems inhuman in some stats but killable in others. I would sugest that you perhaps lower some of his stats. He is only human.

Icewalker
26-01-2006, 03:10
Okay, he's more human now.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 8 5 5 4 3 7 5 10
Weapons/Armour/Wargear: Lunar Spear, Red Hare, Heavy Armour, Long Bow.

Squad: 1

SPECIAL RULES:
Completely Untrustworthy: Lü Bu is notorious for being completely untrustworthy; to represent this he always stand alone; he may not be joined by any unit, or may he join with another unit. In addition to being completely untrustworthy, any base within 12" of Lü Bu are at -1 Ld.

Incredibly Marksmen: Lü Bu is an incredible marksmen and was able to shoot a blod perfectly through his halberd. He can re-roll one miss with his long bow. In addition, his long bow shoots at a strengh of 4 instead of 3.

Lunar Spear: Counts as a lance w/ -1 plus any other modifiers on enemy armour saves.

Red Hare: Has a base movement of 9. Since the Red Hare is barded, it still suffers -1 M because of barding.

Could he serve as a RoR perhaps? Don't say anything bl4ck0pz. I already know what you're going to say so don't say it.

Captain Ardias
26-01-2006, 07:37
I dont know if S5 is realistic, ok he might be strong but S5 is unhuman strength (only monsters and the über special characters has that.) . The normal strength for human characters is 4 I belive, so I think S4would be better.

Scanno
26-01-2006, 08:34
Yup, and an elvin lord, who has lived by a strict marshal code for hundreds of years is only WS 7...

Icewalker
27-01-2006, 11:44
Alright, he's still way overpowered I'll admit.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 7 5 4 4 3 6 5 10
Weapons/Armour/Wargear: Lunar Spear, Red Hare, Heavy Armour, Long Bow.

Squad: 1

SPECIAL RULES:
Completely Untrustworthy: Lü Bu is notorious for being completely untrustworthy; to represent this he always stand alone; he may not be joined by any unit, or may he join with another unit. In addition to being completely untrustworthy, any base within 12" of Lü Bu are at -1 Ld.

Incredibly Marksmen: Lü Bu is an incredible marksmen and was able to shoot an arrow perfectly through his halberd. He can re-roll one miss with his long bow. In addition, his long bow shoots at a strengh of 4 instead of 3.

Lunar Spear: Counts as a lance w/ -1 plus any other modifiers on enemy armour saves. It also enables him to attack bases in the second rank.

Red Hare: Has a base movement of 9. Since the Red Hare is barded, it still suffers -1 M because of barding.

Alright, a little bit more human he is now.

The Black Knight
17-03-2006, 22:40
I would decrease his initiative but change his lunar spear. It should be he can attack people in the second rank when he charges on red hare.

When on foot he could use it as a halberd but attacking people in the other ranks. that would make him a killing machine without overpowering him too much

junx13
18-03-2006, 02:33
Actually, in the books, he is known to be an impetuous character who was always after the glory of one to one combat... Which was also what he excelled in.

So, I'd give him the impetuous rule based on the real life guy.

In addition, he was a good general, but his rashness made him very bad tactically, so though he was well respected for his martial skills, he nvr made that good a general ( he was an act first, talk later kind of guy).

Based on that, I'd give him Ld 9 .

Also, Red Hare was given to him by Cao Cao as a gift. It was known to be a very fast steed, able to rub leagues without tiring... For me, that either means the horse is brettonian bred( using Warhammer comparisons) or is not barded so that he runs far farther than other horses.

Just my take on this from a Chinese point of view.

Sakura
11-04-2006, 14:30
Actually, in the books, he is known to be an impetuous character who was always after the glory of one to one combat... Which was also what he excelled in.

So, I'd give him the impetuous rule based on the real life guy.

In addition, he was a good general, but his rashness made him very bad tactically, so though he was well respected for his martial skills, he nvr made that good a general ( he was an act first, talk later kind of guy).

Based on that, I'd give him Ld 9 .

Also, Red Hare was given to him by Cao Cao as a gift. It was known to be a very fast steed, able to rub leagues without tiring... For me, that either means the horse is brettonian bred( using Warhammer comparisons) or is not barded so that he runs far farther than other horses.

Just my take on this from a Chinese point of view.

I totally agree, then Guan Yu was given Red Hare by Cao Cao as a give to seduce him to Cao Cao. (Guan Yu was considered a Prize and an able and honerable General. More on Guan Yu later)
I'm glad to see someones not just basing this off Video games.


SPECIAL RULES:
Completely Untrustworthy: Lü Bu is notorious for being completely untrustworthy; to represent this he always stand alone; he may not be joined by any unit, or may he join with another unit.

Youre going off folk law.
Having a change of heart or being shown the light and ridding the world/china of a terrible tyrant that armies couldn’t defeat and yet he did doesn’t constitute as Untrustworthy.

Back in China "Virtue and Loyalty" where doctrines passed from Confucius and Sun Tzu, Confucius was in the minds of people and Sun Tzu in strategists, strategists that didn’t follow the art of war were considered deceptive.
Much like how soldiers would line up and raise there muskets and shoot another army doing the same thing on the other side..

War and life change, and Lu Bu would be a more celebrated hero in the west than Muhammad Ali or Joan of arc.

Right time and wrong place.

I just hate it when Lu Bu is related to treachery, He really shouldn’t have been given independence, he was terrible at ruling land, and when Cao Cao beat him Cao Cao and Lui Bei had no good feelings for him because he wasn’t a hero worth capturing because he would betray them, but seriously if he had have been seduced by Lui bei and fought for "virtue" I doubt Guan Yu would have been the favourite son. (dear I say that about my god :angel:)

Lu Bu was given the right of an honerable death, poison wine or a sword to fall on, (Cao cao was merciful dispite his video game characteristics, he was also jolly and had good taste.) but refused to be put to death and plead for his release, this is considered dishonerable because you still have a chance at redemption for showing mettal in the face of death, but as to make his case worse he broke free of his guards fighting them off untill orders were given to throw nooses at him as to stop his struggling.
In the end he was bound and pulled till even he couldnt breath anymore.
He wasn't simply strangled because it was the dishonerable way to die, however I dont know if that practise was adpoted after that, its kinda fitting.

Icewalker
27-05-2006, 01:44
Youre going off folk law.Having a change of heart or being shown the light and ridding the world/china of a terrible tyrant that armies couldn’t defeat and yet he did doesn’t constitute as Untrustworthy.

Back in China "Virtue and Loyalty" where doctrines passed from Confucius and Sun Tzu, Confucius was in the minds of people and Sun Tzu in strategists, strategists that didn’t follow the art of war were considered deceptive.Much like how soldiers would line up and raise there muskets and shoot another army doing the same thing on the other side..

War and life change, and Lu Bu would be a more celebrated hero in the west than Muhammad Ali or Joan of arc.

Right time and wrong place.

I just hate it when Lu Bu is related to treachery, He really shouldn’t have been given independence, he was terrible at ruling land, and when Cao Cao beat him Cao Cao and Lui Bei had no good feelings for him because he wasn’t a hero worth capturing because he would betray them, but seriously if he had have been seduced by Lui bei and fought for "virtue" I doubt Guan Yu would have been the favourite son. (dear I say that about my god :angel:)

Lu Bu was given the right of an honerable death, poison wine or a sword to fall on, (Cao cao was merciful dispite his video game characteristics, he was also jolly and had good taste.) but refused to be put to death and plead for his release, this is considered dishonerable because you still have a chance at redemption for showing mettal in the face of death, but as to make his case worse he broke free of his guards fighting them off untill orders were given to throw nooses at him as to stop his struggling.
In the end he was bound and pulled till even he couldnt breath anymore.
He wasn't simply strangled because it was the dishonerable way to die, however I dont know if that practise was adpoted after that, its kinda fitting.
Hmmm...good advice to a guy who isn't a fluff nut on Japanese history. Could we say that he was incredibly scarey to be around or was that something that was not connected with our good friend, mister Lu Bu?

Morathi's Darkest Sin
27-05-2006, 10:45
WS 7 is fine as Helborg has it, and he is meant to be the best warrior of the Human Warhammer world...

Of course if you are thinking to do what I tried a while back, you need to ignore that.

The problem with Lu Bu from the game is he's meant to be the best in the world, but right below him are warriors who should put generic heroes to shame, and then there are others just below that who are probably at least equal to Lord as well. If you are going via the book or History then you can tone this down abit, however the game is compleatly over the top so your stats need to think likewise.

With mine I basically ignored Warhammer comparrisons other than the basic Human stat and did up the characters with the intention of only facing off against themselves... although I'm still waiting for my wife to get to the stage where she can sculpt me some figs.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about.. when I had a go at this the following guys fell into these WS groups.

WS 10 - Lu Bu

WS 9 - Guan Yu, Xiahou Dun,

Ws 8 - Sun Ce, Ma Chao, Zhang Liao, Taishi Ci

WS 7 - Liu Bei, Cao Cao, Sun Jian, Zhang He,

WS 6 - Zhang Fei, Xiahou Yuan, Wei Yan

Sakura
05-06-2006, 08:13
What are these WS compared to?
Sun ce, and Cao cao, Sun Jain and Liu Bei were politician not a warriors.
Its like saying George Bush was a warrior simply because his name was mentioned around the same time as Bruce Lee and Stone cold steve Austin.
I wouldnt think they would have skills much more than a trained soilder as they only trained to avoid a conscript hurting their horse they were hiding on.

What is everyone basing these ideas off? is there some cartoon on Tv somewhere where these poeple are power rangers or something?

Velkyn Kyil
06-06-2006, 03:49
They are pretty much Power Rangers in Dynasty Warriors.. :p

Sakura
06-06-2006, 12:40
So we are comparing a tv show to a game to a game?
talk about lost in translation, Id wonder if anything would even survive the transition.

Morathi's Darkest Sin
12-06-2006, 10:51
Based on the game and how the characters play in it, pretty much as said in my post, if I was basing them on the book.. or actual history obviously things would be a lot different.

However mine where done not long after I had played DW3 to death, at some point I intend to do them up properly but it's been on the back burner for a while. Pretty much until I get some figures sculpted for me I expect. :)

Of course if you weren't talking to me Sakura I'll slink off quietly.

Sakura
12-06-2006, 11:34
I dont remember who I was talking to,:D I just dislike it how some game is what everyone basing another games hypothetical stats off.
It should totally be based of the original literature, so much more rich and proud.

Characters dont have to have stats according to some games interpretation of how many attacks they have, no one even knows.
Just that history says that Lubu was unbeaten and had done many things no one could even be capable of.
Therefore he is more of a myth.

Making rules on heros such as Zhuge Liang wouldnt help stats, but would surly help fantasy games in leadership and movement bonus'.
I just wish this thread wasnt started with others interpretations of interpretations as the basis on judging the characters.
if this makes any sense at all when the book was all folk law and myth anyway.

Its like a Chinese whisper (how fitting).