PDA

View Full Version : WotR Elves.



Sedge
01-06-2009, 08:15
Hi All,
I have been using elves now for a couple of games as we are just starting out we are staying to 1000pts. I have played against Isenguard, fallen kingdoms and Gondor all with roaring sucess so far. I prefer going for some of the bigger characters as I just love there special rules and spellcasting abilities. I have currently settled on this as my prefered list...

Celeborn and Galadrial. A great combo I feel. Galadrial is great for boosting up the might store whilst Celeborn can make a hard line of infantry all the harder.

3 Infantry Glaive and shield + Hero. Why wouldn't you add a shield?
3 Archers
2 Archers
3 Knights + hero. I've never used cavalry before so they should be intresting to try.

Tonight i am playing against Mordor for the first time. He will be using....
Gothmog
Morannon Orc Warband : 6 x company with shields . Captain . Banner Bearer . Taskmaster.
Morannon Orc Warband : 6 x company with shields . Captain . Banner Bearer . Taskmaster . Shaman .
Warg Rider Warband : 3 x warg rider company with shields . Captain .
Warg Rider Warband : 2 x warg rider company .
Mordor Troll

Any tips on what to do? I was thinking that I have to kill Gothmog asap. Perhaps use Galadrial to add might to the knight captain, then a quick charge with the cavalry then heroic duel him? I could soften up the units courage with a few spell to reduce courage and hope that he fails his terror. What do you think?

Jorgen_CAB
01-06-2009, 08:36
In my opinion you have too many points spent on your heroes. You will probably have a really hard time against that army.

Though, you opponent should use all five Wargs in one formation and replace the Shaman with Kardush. That will make it even scarier.
Those Morannon Orcs with with strength four will be nasty against defense 4(6) elves. The shamans can also use the 'Shatter Shield' spell making it even nastier.

I really think that you need to kill Gothmog ASAP if you can, his abilities are extremely good on the Orcs. He can also duplicate Epic/Heroic actions for free within 12", so watch out for that.

Make sure that he doesn't charge your cavalry with his Troll, you should try and kill it before that happens.

In any case you will have a very hard time playing against his/her army. In my opinion the only way Mordor will loose is if they are extremely unlucky or inexperienced with these two army setups.

The problem that I see with your army is the lack of proper troops and numbers. You need more of everything and some lesser heroes to make up for that.

Sedge
01-06-2009, 09:13
I think that you might be right. Who would you drop and what would you add?

I could possibly drop Galadrial (though I will miss her, and I've just painted her :() and add a few more troops.
I might add a forth stand to the infantry, and make a new infantry formation of 2 stands.

edit, it might be better just to make another infantry formation of three companies. This would allow Celeborn to jump between the two.
this would give me a total of 7 might points.

Sedge
01-06-2009, 10:01
Another possibility would be to remove Celeborn and a hero form the infantry and add Galadrial and Elladan this gives me an extra 190 points.
This would get 3 companies of infantry with shields + 40pts to spare. Galadrial could boost Elladans might asap with councillor and you have a fancy dueling hero for 35pts. I could add his brother as well for another 35pts.

Jorgen_CAB
01-06-2009, 10:11
Well, use Galadriels model an give her Cirdans profile. Then you get some magic and get to use the model. If your opponent are OK with it that is? :)

If you have some Wood Elves (with bows) I would add three companies of those and add one company to my 2 archer formation making them three companies. I would also add in another captain if there are any points to spare. I have not kept count. ;)

In any way you need to be able to play on the elves speed and maneuverability to position themselves on flanks and use terrain to their advantage. They are master pathfinders after all. I also think that one extra tactical element from your starting army would be preferable if possible.

Please give us a short presentation of how it went. I would be interesting to see the result. :)

Sedge
01-06-2009, 10:33
I would prefer not to use Wood Elves at the moment (mainly as I have none).
Its really Galadrials 'touched by Destiny' rule that I like. It allows her to boost all the characters around her so effectively. Also she has access to the awsome spells of dismay.

Emissary
01-06-2009, 11:39
I actually feel that Galadriel is better against that army then Celeborn. You do need to drop a character for more troops. You aren't going to beat that army off fighting alone, you're going to need help. I also think that going after Gothmog is going to cost you either your knights or your infantry just to kill that one model, which will cost you too much to kill something that is good but won't win the game for you.. The only thing that is going to save you is good use of terror. Luckily between the command and dismay spells Galadriel can help to paralyze one of the two morannon orc units.

I'd use your archery to take out his support units: the warg riders and trolls. What's good for you he's chosen to split the warg riders into 2 units. One only needs 6 hits to wipe it out and the other 10. The troll isn't hard to kill either plus cannot at the double. I'd use the archery on those (also since S1-2 isn't going to do much against D7 when he's got 6 companies per). Then try got get one of the morannon units locked down with sunder spirit, the command -1 courage spell and transfix, then focus on the final morannon unit with your infantry and knights.

The biggest threat will be him casting wings of darkness on his morannon unit and double moving them all the way across the table at once. If that happens, load it up on debuffs then hit it with your knights and infantry.

Sedge
01-06-2009, 12:52
OK following everyones very helpfull advice I have settled on this...

Galadrial.
Elladan
Elrohir
3 Infantry Glaive and shield
3 Infantry Glaive and shield
3 Archers
2 Archers
3 Knights + hero.

that is 7 might and 3 spells.
Galadrial can boost the twins might and I have a few more troops to play with.

I will let you all know how i get on tonight. :)

Jorgen_CAB
01-06-2009, 13:49
I think that seem like a much better army. I also agree with everything that the Emissary said.

Sedge
02-06-2009, 09:12
Ok guys, I used my new Warseer adapted Elves last night.

I used the Galadrial and twins list against the Mordor list posted above.
There were two woods fairly central in the centre which funneled his two large blocks of Mor Orcs lead by Gothmog into the centre. He guarded his left flank with a troll and 2 wargs, his right flank had 3 wargs.

I held centre with (from left to right) 2 archers, 3 Glaives with Elladan, 3 glaives with Galadrial and Elrohir, cavalry close to Galadrial and infantry and 3 archers facing his 3 wargs on riht hand flank.

1.
I used councillor on cavalry hero to up his might. I did epic renewal on herself. (I did this on various heros most turns if possible)
He advanced on mass through the gap in the trees. Advance on left moved back on right.
Archers advnced and halved the wargs cavalry sped round the right hand flank.
Cautious movement in centre.
2. Agains he moved through the gap.
My cavalry sped right round the RH flank to sit beside his wargs.
Elrohir moves into archers on right.
Archers destroy wargs (one might used).
Other archer unit failed to do any thing all game.
3.
He had priority but chose to move first. BIG mistake.
Again he advanced. He had failed a couple of at the double rolls mainly due to courage sapping spells. His units were getting close.
I advanced my cav right behind his big unit of Mor Orcs with Gothmog for rear charge. Infantry did same advancing through the woods to get his flank without showing myself to his front arc.
Big charge.
We are still a little shaky on the particular orders for epics etc so he declaired epic defence, I called duel. (we aren't EStriking in duel) with Elladan but rolled a 1 to his 6 . Used all might (extra from Galadrial Councillor) and lost by one. DEAD. I then epic defwenced and heroic fight with cavalry.
Killed a company and a half and only lost the odd elf infantry. Big win
Second charge of cavalry killed a few more.
4. He failed to recover formation. We wern't sure but felt that Gothmog shouldn't be able to leave a disorderd formation(was this right?). His left hand wargsx2 failed every terror test to join the fight for the rest of the game. His troll finally hit th earchers and his other big unit charged the other elf infantry unit. Again Epic defence for elves.
Those Morranon orcs took charge after charge from rear and flank elves. Finally killing them.
Other unit of Mor Orcs, bounced to elf infantry were disordered.
5. Neither orcs passed courage to regroup! A world of pain as i charged with everything I could.
Game over big win to me! I lost a total of 4 infantry, 6 archers and no cavalry! :D


I love the cavalry. They were fantastic. With Galadrial boosting the might around her it allowed for heroic fights to seriously wittle away units.
Defence 7 is hard to crack. epic defence is a great epic action.
Galadrials spells -1 courage Dismay, -1 courage Command and transfix is very useful.
I rolled a lot of 6s for cavalry charges. We played it...
4 basic attacks+6 for charging+fight value(normally 5 in this game due to disorder)+1 glaive + d3 for unstopable charge. That is a LOT of dice.
Orcs struggle with courage on there own.
Droping Celeborn wasn't a problem and the extra elves were a big boon.


A great game against a great opponent:). He smiled and laughed the whole way through despite failing 4 regroup tests!:wtf: He was quite new to the game (as am I, only my 4th game) and his list will change a little I feel.

Jorgen_CAB
02-06-2009, 17:55
Seems like you had a very enjoyable game there. It also seems as if the maneuverability of the Elves payed of. :)

I really think that you did exactly what you should have done, move around and block his movement and hit him hard and fast when you decided it was time to do so.

Shonailo
06-06-2009, 11:07
Thanks for the post Sedge! As a new player, that play-by-play really helped expand my concepts of dynamic army lists. Your list is nearly polar opposite to the one I play (I'm restricted by what my store has in stock, and we just started playing), and it looks like you had alot of success. Much appreciated.

Sedge
09-06-2009, 10:51
I thought that I would update this thread with my most current battle.
I was using the most recent Galadrial army as previously posted.
Isenguard- Battle for pass and high Ground.
I had same galadrial army, pete had...
Lurtz
4 Urak-hai with shields
2 Urak-hai with pikes
2 Urak-hai with pikes,
3 Orcs with Shields
3 Orcs
3 Wargs
2 Urak-hai with crossbow
3 Urak-hai Scouts
Troll
Sappers
Bolt thrower.
He belives in troops over Heros, having one hero is the ultimate test of his belief.

Intresting battle, fight down length of field and occupy a large ruined building.
Pete had a very large force lead by Lurtz with no other heros. Lurtz is a fantastic adition to any Isenguard army with his inspiring leader (Urak-hai) rule and Courage 5. This allowed him to almost ignore my terror which he only failed once in the game!

The battle field had a large ruined building in the centre. Two woods in his half and two hills in my half.

My battle plan was to take the flanks around the building then later in the game use magic to reduce courage and strength of any units in the building and hit them hard from all angle, push him out and ocupy the terrain. I wouldn't be able to exploit the flank attakc due to limited room.

It started well with archers taking out the bolt thrower on left flank in the first turn and Wargs on second and third. archers on right fired every turn at the troll but just couldn't take it out.
Everything else moved towards centre with cavalry on right looking for target of opertunity.

Pete had to endure this hail of fire as he had little to reply with. When his crossbows finally got range of a target he wiped out the archers (and Elladan) in two lucky rounds of shooting [Note to self: SHOOT THE CROSSBOWS!]

He occupied the terrain with scouts about turn 4. I ignored for the time being.

With no other targets the archers on the left moved around the left flank sniping at pikes. Cavalry on the right charged the orcs. I had to use might to make the charge and I called a heroic fight to max kills. Orcs were wiped out but I had lost a company of horse! Worse they were now had no other targets for charging other than Pikes!

Ok turn 5 (already) time to take the building. I charged the Scouts with 3 companies of infantry. Damn, buildings increase defence by 3, they now had Defence 9! I tried to cast spells on them, reducing there courage to increase chance of failed terror. I did this for every charge but they passed every test! Damn dice Better luck next time, send more troops.

Turn 6 try again. This time two formations. Lurtz had moved into the building. First he used 2 might to pass terror test, then called heroic duel on Galadrial. He won the fight by one (I used an extra point of might) but failed to kill her. He epic striked his formation. Fight was close but again I couldn't buge him.

Turn 7 Ok lets try again. This time with one formation, he wisely moved scouts out and Urak-hai with shields in. Now DEFENCE 10!!! Again spells did little but I had reduced his strength to 3 with a spell. I epic defenced to raise defence to 8. Combat was close but again I couldn't quite win combat. Close but no cigar.

Turn 8 Final attempt. Same again cast spells, he passed courage. He killed 4 I needed 5 to push him out and win game. I needed 6s then 5s. I rolled 7 6s then.......3 5s. Damn he held the terrain.
Game over win to Pete.

It was a very good game. and very well played by Pete. He moved characters around well and held back where he needed. The Urak-hai are very strong in combat (especially against archers as my flanking unit found to there cost.) Lurtz is amazing giving his courage to practically the entire army.

Lessons learnt.
Occupy +3 defence terrain first. I could (and should) have taken the terrain by turn 2. I didn't want to as he would have attacked it with his entire army. I thought that with his high body count against mine a war of attrition was the wrong way to go. The advantages in defence could have really helped me.
I was overly concerned with Lurtz. I could have charged with my cavalry and heroic dueled him (Hero had 5 might at this point) with a fair chance of killing him. Without Lurtz, terror would have been MUCH better.

Archers are not a combat unit!

Elves need more room to manouver. Battle for the Pass set-ups are going to be hard.