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View Full Version : Heavy Stubber or No Heavy Stubber



broxus
02-06-2009, 18:22
I have decided which tanks I want to use in my IG army. I have decided to use the LRBT with Hull Heavy Bolter and 2 Plasma Cannons. Now that comes out to a 190points. I am now debating if I should put a heavy stubber on them all making them an even 200 points.

So i guess my question is this: Is the heavy stubber worth putting on the the tank for 10 points or should I try to keep them cheaper and save points.

noobzilla
02-06-2009, 18:24
Not on a Leman Russ.

I'd use them on something that's fast like a Bane Wolf, Devil Dog, or Hellhound. Even a Chimera... but not a LR.

broxus
02-06-2009, 18:36
but the thing is that its 5% cost increase on the LRBT but on some of those cheaper tanks its a much higher percentage on the AV12

Oberst Viktor Morte
02-06-2009, 20:29
Put a Heavy Stubber on everything.

RCgothic
02-06-2009, 20:40
For the price of six heavy stubbers you could get a psyker battle squad, squad of rough riders, mortar support squad or sentinel.

Points better spent?

elite_dannux
02-06-2009, 21:12
Id think that a heavy stubber on a basic russ (no sponsons/lascannon) might be worth it. Think of it as a cheaper sponson upgrade.

boogle
02-06-2009, 21:44
I only put Heavy Stubbers on anti Infantry tanks, so that's my Hellhound and variants, and my Exterminators.

I do have 2 Conquerers which i use as Eradicators with Storm Bolters and a Ryza Pattern Vanquisher with Heavy Stubber, but only because they are WYSIWYG

Panzerkanzler
02-06-2009, 21:55
Put a Heavy Stubber on everything.

Especially on your guardsmen!

Khornies & milk
02-06-2009, 22:25
I've put Heavy Stubbers on all my Infantry Squad's Chimeras because I like the extra shooting, but mainly because I love the thematic feel it gives, like in Black Hawk Down. Plus there's plenty of examples in 'real life' Vehicles having Machine Gun mounts.

Legionary
02-06-2009, 22:29
Id think that a heavy stubber on a basic russ (no sponsons/lascannon) might be worth it. Think of it as a cheaper sponson upgrade.

This.

Heavy Stubbers are nice to fill in the odd ten points, or if you were going to put on sponsons but couldn't afford 'em or wanted to spread them across tanks then HS are the way to go.

Ironhand
02-06-2009, 22:30
I think the Heavy Stubber is worth it on a vehicle whose primary purpose is anti-infantry, otherwise not.

Green Shoes
02-06-2009, 22:40
I only put them on Chimeras and Punishers. Don't have hellhound variants but I'd put them on those too.

My favorite part about the basic LRBT is that it is cheap. If you want an expensive tank, there are much better options to use, I.E. why not use a Vanquisher over an LRBT unless you wanted a cheap template with surviving power?

The LRBT is the only Russ pattern which I would ever put in a Squadron simply for the fact that in an 2000 point game it is only 450 points for 3 AV14, S8 AP3 frisbees. That way there is room for things like Griffon and Colossi squadrons.

Also, wouldn't it be awesome if Sentinels could have Stubbers? They can have HK Missiles (which suck) but not the Stubber.

QuietEarth
02-06-2009, 22:41
I tend to leave the Pintle Mounted weapons of my Battle Tanks but on my Hellhounds and Chimeras the Heavy Stubbers are a must have. The Heavy Stubber being strength 4 means it's a defensive weapon so you can move and shoot.

Treadhead_1st
02-06-2009, 23:21
Stubbers on my Russes so I can move-and-fire the Cannon, Hull Heavy Bolter and Pintle Stubber - a pair of these (non-squadroned) can put a serious dent in an entire flank of a battle-line.

I have a Stubber on my Vanquisher purely to keep it WYSIWYG - though since I am still running a Hull Heavy Bolter (again, for WYSIWYG) it means it can gain a little extra-purpose by shooting at Infantry when enemy armour is disposed of/not present (whilst acting as mobile cover, too).

Voleron
03-06-2009, 07:05
I have them on all my Infantry Squad Chimeras, since the Infantry themselves only have Flamers as Special Weapons. Extra shots at 36" helps.

And then I put them on the Command Squad Chimeras for consistency. I dropped them from my Russes, though. They have enough guns as it is.

azimaith
03-06-2009, 07:13
In the new vehicle rules lots and lots of shooting on one vehicle of one type isn't necessarily beneficial. Consider this.
You could get a chimera you plan on transporting troops frequently in with a multi-laser, a heavy bolter on the hull and a heavy stubber for some 65 points. The problem with said tank is it needs to sit still to fire all its guns.

On the flip side you could take that same chimera, replace the hull gun (or turret gun, whatever) with a heavy flamer and then have a tank with a heavy flamer, a heavy stubber, and a heavy bolter. The first tank needs to sit still to be effective, the second tank can move every turn and be at near max effectiveness, even when you get up close to flamer range you can use 3 stubber shots+ a heavy flamer which is more than capable of wrecking light squads.

Look less into "how many heavy bolter shots can I get" and more into "how can my tank best fit varied situations. Frankly put the new rules make it fairly ineffective to make a "dakka tank" so to speak that plans on moving anywhere.

As for the russ, ever consider a lascannon on the hull and if you need sponsons, heavy flamers?
In that case you can move and fire every turn a battlecannon+ a lascannon or you can get up realy close and fire a battle cannon(if you want to risk it) and a heavy flamer into an enemy.

Schlupp
03-06-2009, 07:22
On the flip side you could take that same chimera, replace the hull gun (or turret gun, whatever) with a heavy flamer and then have a tank with a heavy flamer, a heavy stubber, and a heavy bolter. The first tank needs to sit still to be effective, the second tank can move every turn and be at near max effectiveness, even when you get up close to flamer range you can use 3 stubber shots+ a heavy flamer which is more than capable of wrecking light squads.


Yep.
I usually replace my hull heavy bolter with a heavy flamer and use a stubber. Itīs a very nasty combination.

MajorWesJanson
03-06-2009, 07:58
Also, wouldn't it be awesome if Sentinels could have Stubbers? They can have HK Missiles (which suck) but not the Stubber.

What, so the pilot could stop driving, stand up on his seat with a cigar in his mouth and shoot a machine gun attached to his roll cage while spewing profanity and brass casings all over the surrounding countryside?

Oberst Viktor Morte
03-06-2009, 08:08
What, so the pilot could stop driving, stand up on his seat with a cigar in his mouth and shoot a machine gun attached to his roll cage while spewing profanity and brass casings all over the surrounding countryside?

I like the way you think!

You're now being placed in charge of battlefield upgrades.

Voleron
03-06-2009, 08:11
Heh. As cool as that would be, on a Sentinel it would more likely be a coaxial setup bolted to the main gun.

Because Coaxial Stubbers are always good.

laudarkul
03-06-2009, 08:12
I put the HS on my tanks since is worth some additional power to a LRBT with 3xHB.In some games those 3 shots were enough to break a unit/destroy it.So if I have the points left I go for a HS on a tank instead of a meltagun in a line squad.

Col.Gravis
03-06-2009, 08:28
It's an extra for me, I'll only add them if I have the points spare that can't be better used elsewhere.

TenaciousT
03-06-2009, 08:36
Big fan of the stubber

Just imagine pask in a punisher with 3 HB sponsons and a stubber :)

stubbers make everything better

Barbarossa
03-06-2009, 09:07
There are never enough guns on a tank.

Lord Solar Plexus
03-06-2009, 09:15
I have decided which tanks I want to use in my IG army. I have decided to use the LRBT with Hull Heavy Bolter and 2 Plasma Cannons. Now that comes out to a 190points. I am now debating if I should put a heavy stubber on them all making them an even 200 points.

A definite NO. In the same vein, the heavy bolter may at times be just as detrimental as a heavy stubber. With that kind of firepower, you are likely to cause excess wounds on small- to medium-sized units, thereby opening the way to wound allocation tricks.

Spend the points on a hull lascannon and put the HS on an anti-personnel platform.

Bekenel
03-06-2009, 09:42
If he's firing at a small/medium size unit, he can just opt not to fire the Stubber..

Lord Solar Plexus
03-06-2009, 10:57
Of course but that doesn't sound like the optimal solution to me. I'd rather stick it on a Chimera.

phoenixshroud
03-06-2009, 11:11
Funnily enough I have found heavy stubbers to be a great addition to a Chimera as they have killed off SM Chapter Masters in a few of my games!

Zoring
03-06-2009, 11:37
Even a single mortar in a command squad thats just sitting behind your waves of men is a far better use of points than a stubber, an extra Plasma or Melta gun also better. Not a useful upgrade imo.

blackcherry
03-06-2009, 11:42
For basic russes and hellhounds they tend to be a must most of the time for me. Those extra shots tend to pay for themselves considering you can move and fire the battlecannon, heavy bolter and heavy stubber.

If the battlecannon is destroyed, then the tank is still chucking out 12 shots, which isn't half bad.

Fire Harte
03-06-2009, 12:17
If you have a cheap russ (exterminator/battle tank) go for it. You'll be able to shoot it if you're on the move always. Plus it makes your russ just that little bit harder to knock out if your opponent keeps getting Weapon Destroyed results (which considering the side armour values this is more common compared to before.)

Lord Solar Plexus
03-06-2009, 12:25
Even a single mortar in a command squad thats just sitting behind your waves of men is a far better use of points than a stubber, an extra Plasma or Melta gun also better. Not a useful upgrade imo.

Quite the contrary, Zoring! Nowadays, CCS are better employed with guns that benefit from BS4 while PCS are impressive flamer platforms. Mortars do not add much to either.

An extra meltagun might be worth it or not, depending on whether it gets into range, and you don't get a plasmagun for 10 points. More importantly, both serve completely different functions, so whether they'll be better is situational.

broxus
03-06-2009, 12:43
In the new vehicle rules lots and lots of shooting on one vehicle of one type isn't necessarily beneficial. Consider this.
You could get a chimera you plan on transporting troops frequently in with a multi-laser, a heavy bolter on the hull and a heavy stubber for some 65 points. The problem with said tank is it needs to sit still to fire all its guns.

On the flip side you could take that same chimera, replace the hull gun (or turret gun, whatever) with a heavy flamer and then have a tank with a heavy flamer, a heavy stubber, and a heavy bolter. The first tank needs to sit still to be effective, the second tank can move every turn and be at near max effectiveness, even when you get up close to flamer range you can use 3 stubber shots+ a heavy flamer which is more than capable of wrecking light squads.

Look less into "how many heavy bolter shots can I get" and more into "how can my tank best fit varied situations. Frankly put the new rules make it fairly ineffective to make a "dakka tank" so to speak that plans on moving anywhere.

As for the russ, ever consider a lascannon on the hull and if you need sponsons, heavy flamers?
In that case you can move and fire every turn a battlecannon+ a lascannon or you can get up realy close and fire a battle cannon(if you want to risk it) and a heavy flamer into an enemy.


I dont like mixing LRBT with anti tank and anti infantry i prefer it stay to one or the other. The LRBT I have with the Hull HB, Plasma Cannon turrets, and Battle Cannon are all nice anti infantry weapons. Thats the reason I would even consider putting on a heavy stubber because its the same range as all the other ones.

I really also like the look of the heavy stubber it remindes me of the 50cal machine gun on current vehicles and looks cool.

I would also never consider even putting a Heavy Flamer on a LRBT, if i get that closeim likely to lose it in a assault.

What do you guys think?

azimaith
04-06-2009, 01:53
I dont like mixing LRBT with anti tank and anti infantry i prefer it stay to one or the other. The LRBT I have with the Hull HB, Plasma Cannon turrets, and Battle Cannon are all nice anti infantry weapons. Thats the reason I would even consider putting on a heavy stubber because its the same range as all the other ones.

I really also like the look of the heavy stubber it remindes me of the 50cal machine gun on current vehicles and looks cool.

I would also never consider even putting a Heavy Flamer on a LRBT, if i get that closeim likely to lose it in a assault.

What do you guys think?

Honestly some units that could kill said tank in assault are vaporized by flamers (boyz+klaw, bikers+klaw, genestealers) You usually don't get to choose if your tank gets assaulted or not, you just respond thus its often better to just have weapons in case you do get assaulted/are going to be assaulted (mind you the best way to avoid that is of course to stay moving) than to hope you don't get assaulted with a stationary tank firing all of its guns. Just because you have a heavy flamer on a LRBT doesn't mean you should go running up to enemy lines to use it. It just means that when that brood lord or genestealers pop out of outflanking, or nob bikers zoom in with their cover saves on bikes, you can burn them down or possibly even make them thing twice about a direct assault.

Having a heavy flamer on the tank doesn't mean it has to get close enough to use it, it just means if you do happen to be that close for whatever reason, you've got an exceptional weapon to use.

e2055261
04-06-2009, 02:11
I put them on all of my tanks especially the LRs. They're worth it cos they can always fire (being a defensive weapon) and since an LR is difficult to destroy you're going to get many shots out of it. Say you kill one ork per turn for 5 turns (being a bit generous) - that's 30 points worth.

DaHedd
06-06-2009, 08:34
I tend to put them on my L Russ rather than side sponsons, i dont like the Russ model and find the sponsons make it even worse to look at. So a co axil or pintle mounted Stubber gives the tank just a lil more firepower.

All my Chimeras have them, i just cant decide on a Hull HB or a Hreavy Flamer tbh.

Gustovic
06-06-2009, 16:37
To have a squadron of Ext full Bolter with Heavy Stubbers will make the opponent feared by them, and to shoot down 3 LRExt isn't so easy...
So, Heavy Stubbers rulez!!!!

Ekranoplan
06-06-2009, 21:13
Its fun to throw a few of them around, but dont go overboard. I always try to fit 1 or 2 heavy stubbers in my list, and usually end up dropping them in favor of one more plasma gun somewhere, though I am pleased to report my 1850 list for an upcomming tournament will have atleast one heavy stubber.

Spending 10 points for a HS on AV14 platform is more efficient then spending 10 points for a HS on AV12 platform. I like throwing them on standard LRBT because I mainly target infantry with them. It would be foolish to be a HS on a tank kitted for anti tank duty.

Also, thats a great point about the Heavy Flamer. What good is a single hull heavy bolter going to be anyway? You might kill a few more gits at range, but the sheer devastation the heavy flamer can wreak could cause an opponent to rethink their plan.

Eldoriath
06-06-2009, 22:45
It looks awesome and is quite decent, no more reasons needed! =)
Also, i think that putting it on russes is a good choice. Good armor and mostly you use them to fight infantry, so it's seldom it's wasted.

rintinglen
06-06-2009, 23:54
A definite NO. In the same vein, the heavy bolter may at times be just as detrimental as a heavy stubber. With that kind of firepower, you are likely to cause excess wounds on small- to medium-sized units, thereby opening the way to wound allocation tricks.

Spend the points on a hull lascannon and put the HS on an anti-personnel platform.
For many people, myself included, the LR IS an anti-personnel weapon, as has been previously said, you can never have too many weapons, especially when only half of the shots you fire are going to hit.

boogle
07-06-2009, 00:04
The normal russ is rubbish as an pure Anti-Armour Tank, it's much better at killing infantry and light vehicles

Khornies & milk
07-06-2009, 00:33
The normal russ is rubbish as an pure Anti-Armour Tank, it's much better at killing infantry and light vehicles

Totally agree...that's why I have Sponsons on all my Russes, mainly HB's, but the Demo and Executioner have PlasCans.

Stubbers are for Chimeras, in my lists anyway.