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Johnny189
02-06-2009, 18:48
I am unable to see the use of either of these.

Rivindel guard-you pay 125 points for a captain and banner and for the company to be stalwart, thats 40 points to make the company stalwart, as well as that there is another 5 points added on per company to be stalwart. I can't see how this is worth the cost.

Gil-galad-you pay 300 points for 10 fight and +2 to hit. You get 6 might, epic sacrafic, epic defence and epic leader ship. To start with who would use epic sacrafice on a 300 point model? If yoir using gil-galad you are probobly using elves to epic leadership wont have a great effect. Epic defence is just a standard epic action. For 100 points less with aragorn you get -4 fight, 3 might+1 each turn and much better epic actions. To be honest I would take aragorn over gil-galad even if they were the same points.

For the above units can anyone show me how they are worth their points?

Angelust
03-06-2009, 02:55
I guess if you consider Gil-galad always has Epic Strike on..., that might be a might point every turn.

Edonil
03-06-2009, 03:23
Couple of points you seem to have missed...The Rivendell Guard are High Elves. A comparable unit is 55 points a company, with no shields, no Stalwart, and no automatic banner. Plus, Erestor is not a mere Captain- he has an extra Might point. So, 15 points cheaper per company, a Banner, and a Captain with 3 Might? I'd say these guys are more effective at holding their own in the main battleline, even compared to their brethren, considering they have shields. And no, Stalwart isn't huge, but not being driven back means you don't have to come back forward if you do lose a company to shooting.

Gil-Galad is an example of an excellent character, especially when deployed with the unit you just said wasn't worth their points! Aragorn is a more versatile character, sure, but Epic Defense is nothing to sneeze at with the RG. Defense 9 is horrendous for Elves, plus he's a Terror causer- Aragorn isn't. Gil-Galad always has F10, can make his targets (there are no opponents for this guy, just targets) Fight zero. And, Epic Leadership is extremely useful. With elves, you're pretty much guaranteeing passing Courage checks for a turn. And as far as Epic Sacrifice goes, it has the potential to be game-winning. If the game is an objective game, and you've got the objective, but you might lose it cause you're being attacked, pop Sacrifice- a 3+ save on casualties very well might save you the game.

And, since I forgot to mention it, Gil has six might points.

xxRavenxx
03-06-2009, 09:10
The other thing to think of with epic sacrifice, is that when you're running low on unit strength, its another option that appears.

Noone wants to epic sacrifice. Sometimes they have to. And then, it becomes an amazing ability.

Lets say you've become cut off, and your unit is facing one that will very likely wipe it out, with gil-galad being stuck there, and will be automaticly dying anyway after 5 or so casualties. Suddenly that ability is going to be fanastic.

Consider it an extra perk, not something "you'll never use". Because one day you will, and be glad of it.

Sedge
03-06-2009, 14:31
I think his usefulness is enhanced depending on your point of few with Epic Strikes in duels or not. If you don't he becomes the Character Terminator! With 6 might he can just keep smashing heros. His +2 to hit is also very good.

Johnny189
03-06-2009, 16:19
Elves already cause terror so he doesn't give them any bonus. Epic defence is decent but I'd rather just use another hero with it. Epic leadership isn't nessesary with elves.

With rivindel guard a cohort has the same defence and a cohort captain has 3 might anyway.

Edonil
03-06-2009, 17:48
True, but Gil-Galad gives a non-elf unit Terror. And nm on the Rivendell guard thing, wasn't paying too close attention to the points cost. And as far as a cohort captain having 3 might, I expect that to be errated to 2.

Before someone misinterprets what I mean by nevermind on the Rivendell Guard thing, I meant the reference to them being 15 points cheaper than a regular High Elf unit. However, Stalwart is an extremely useful thing, especially if you start playing against other elves, with their high accuracy. And for 5 points more for Stalwart, that's an extreme bargain.

And as far as Epic Defense being found with another hero, the other Heroes with Epic Defense for Elves have far better things to spend Might on, or don't have anywhere near as much Might. Arwen and Gil-Galad are the only exceptions to this- Arwen because Defense is her only option, Gil-Galad because he's got 6 points of Might. And if we're going to continue this conversation, please make up your mind on something- are we talking pure Elves, or allied Elves? Comparing Gil-Galad to Aragorn is pointless if you're limiting to Elves, and making the claim that Epic Leadership isn't necessary with Elves (which I strongly disagree with) is pointless if you aren't limiting yourself to Elves.

Marauder
05-06-2009, 18:34
Epic leadership is always a good ability. You may think 5 courage is enough, but when some Ringwraith starts preying on a unit with no heroes in it, they can have their courage debuffed very quickly. Getting re-rolls could save you from some serious pain.

Axis
15-06-2009, 02:04
Don't scoff at epic sacrifice.. it is very good. Of course you aren't going to use it on turn one. You are more likely going to use it in a key combat that'll turn the game... and you will probably use it after he has used most his might. I'd rather sacrifice my 300 pt character than lose the game, wouldn't you?

Johnny189
15-06-2009, 17:32
I agree with that but I'm going to put this in perpective with the other options available.

Aragorn all the same rules that would be of benifit in an elven formation, but 4 less fight. 4 Less attacks isn't much. He is also mighty hero and has much better epic actions.

Edonil
17-06-2009, 15:56
But, if you are playing purely elves, Aragorn is not an option, and if you aren't, then Gil-Galad's Terror causing ability comes into play. And the statement of him having better actions is purely a matter of situation. I'd say that in an allied army, Epic Leadership becomes more important, not less, and Epic Defense, while it won't kill anything, is extremely useful. Mighty Hero I will grant you. As I said before- to truly consider the usefulness of Gil-Galad, please make a choice- are you playing elves with no allies, elves with allies, or another army with elves as allies? Because the usefulness of Gil-Galad will change, slightly or significantly, depending on which situation we're talking about.

Intrepid Adventurer
17-06-2009, 15:57
Should I include Gil-Galad in a 1000 pts list, or is that too much of a points sink?

Nu Fenix
17-06-2009, 16:08
I personally wouldn't include Gil-galad in an army of that size. He eats up far too many of your points, and whilst he is potent, weight of numbers can still bringhim and his formation down.

For the same price, I could take 10 companies of Easterlings. That still leaves me 700 more points for other companies and heroes to lead them, and gives you alot of models to grind through.

I would feel uncomfortable using Gil-galad even in 1500 points, as he still eats up a noticeable chunk of your army. For the same price, other smaller heroes dotted around could do more for you, in my opinion.

Axis
17-06-2009, 23:59
At 1000 points i definitely wouldn't take gil-galad. The smallest i would consider him is 2000. As Nu Fenix said, he just eats up too many points in small games.