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Don Cordite
02-06-2009, 18:34
I have a question about the Lore of Slaanesh's "Hysterical Frenzy". Since it is an RIP spell and one may end it at any time (according to the BRB), can a caster use it to frenzy a unit and force it to charge, and then simply cancel it before the enemy gets to benefit from the extra attack in the close combat phase?

Or is this one of those "Duh, that's the point of the spell" things I'm just too good of a sport to see as the obvious intended mechanic.

Sorry if this has been answered before...scoured the Search function to no avail.

Thanks!

DC

T10
02-06-2009, 18:48
The spell is non-specific as to the duration of Frenzy. Since it is bestowed as a part of the spell description, and the spell is a "remains in play" spell then is seems natural to assume that the Frenzy ceases when the spell ends.

Notice that by literal interpretation the unit can still have it's Frenzy beaten out of them if they lose a round of close combat (see the rules for Frenzy), and that the persistent damage is tied to the spell effect, not to the Frenzy.

-T10

melgorth
02-06-2009, 20:19
It is an interesting tactic but I think that opponents would frown upon it. Also Games Workshop have stated that they consider stuff like that not very sportsmanlike the latest Warriors of Chaos FAQ when they were answering a question concerning a similar tactic.

Malorian
02-06-2009, 20:48
I'd do it...

You're allowed to end it any time, so what's the issue. If the opponent doesn't like it then they should have dispelled it ;)

puppetmaster24
02-06-2009, 20:51
yes you can and is a very evil tactic that won last years fantsy GT after it killed every gun line in the room in two secounds when you had dwarf thunderers being forced to charge a keeper of secrets.

Witchblade
03-06-2009, 04:16
It's not as if Slaaneshi magic or Hysterical Frenzy in particular are anywhere near game breaking anyway, so the 'broken' argument is void.

RAW, it's allowed. Fluff wise, it's definitely a Slaaneshi thing to do. Fun wise, it's a tactical use of a mediocre spell.

Urgat
04-06-2009, 05:14
It's not as if Slaaneshi magic or Hysterical Frenzy in particular are anywhere near game breaking anyway, so the 'broken' argument is void.

RAW, it's allowed. Fluff wise, it's definitely a Slaaneshi thing to do. Fun wise, it's a tactical use of a mediocre spell.

Well, the very fact you can do that make it a very not mediocre spell, don't you think? It deals damage and disrupts the lines and forces your enemy to charge about where you want it. Well worth a 8+ imho.

Skyth
04-06-2009, 18:11
I like using it on my own Chaos Knights...:) Unlikely they are going to take damage if I leave it up, but it gives them 5 extra strength 5 and 5 extra strength 4 attacks :)

Witchblade
04-06-2009, 22:47
Well, the very fact you can do that make it a very not mediocre spell, don't you think? It deals damage and disrupts the lines and forces your enemy to charge about where you want it. Well worth a 8+ imho.
It doesn't work on units that are ItP, which makes it highly situational (useless even against the top tier armies).

stonetroll
05-06-2009, 02:31
Lets take this one step further.

Could I cast this on an enemy unit, make them declare a charge on my chaos dragon(as has been said above).

Now could I cancel the spell BEFORE the enemy moves his chargers? This would have him to make a terror test and potentially run off the board. *Evil thoughts... evil thoughts indeed*.

nosferatu1001
05-06-2009, 08:59
This falls under the "gentlemanly" portion of the WoC faq, where they suggest replacing "at any time" with "at the end of any phase" - this prevents you summoning an Exalted, having atacks allocated against him, and then ending the spell before any damage is taken. In this way you could end the spell at the end of the movement phase, so they would be ItP for the charge but lose the attacks before the CC phase.

Nothing, except your own sense of fair play, would allow you to do this however.

Masque
05-06-2009, 09:33
Even if you didn't feel like playing in a gentlemanly fashion it still wouldn't work. Units take Terror tests before they declare a charge so if you give the unit Frenzy and wait until it declares it is too late for it to take a Terror test even if you drop the spell.

nosferatu1001
05-06-2009, 10:00
No, he means the terror test taken after you declare a charge against a terror causing unit, not the one for the unit within 6" of a terror causer.

Sequence would be: frenzy forces charge, you end spell before chargers are moved, psych test kicks in. Roughly.

Masque
05-06-2009, 10:07
In the Fear section it clearly says that you need to make a test before declaring a charge against Fear causing enemies. In the Terror section it is a bit more vague about the timing but I'm pretty damn sure it is supposed to be at the same time. Otherwise you would need to take a Fear test to declare a charge against a Terror causing enemy then take a Terror test to actually charge it. Assuming I'm correct that these tests are supposed to be at the same time then the Terror test comes before you actually declare the charge. Please see pages 50 and 51 of the BRB.

Gazak Blacktoof
05-06-2009, 11:03
In the Fear section it clearly says that you need to make a test before declaring a charge against Fear causing enemies.

Agreed, this is something I'd actually forgotten. It also means that fear causing units don't get to make a charge reaction if the enemy fails their fear test because a charge is never declared.

Spirit
05-06-2009, 12:30
Lets take this one step further.

Could I cast this on an enemy unit, make them declare a charge on my chaos dragon(as has been said above).

Now could I cancel the spell BEFORE the enemy moves his chargers? This would have him to make a terror test and potentially run off the board. *Evil thoughts... evil thoughts indeed*.

Well, you are ItP while frenzied, so no test.

Fear/terror tests are taken before you move charges, so whichever way you look at it, this tactic wont work.

EvC
05-06-2009, 12:38
Yes indeedy, this is one way to get good use out of a spell that has limited potential. it's quite evil, but very fitting.