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KaldCB
03-06-2009, 06:20
with the release of this game, im planning to return to lotr, and i think i want to build a gondor list, and would like some advice before i buy lots of models.

I was thinking of something like this for 1000 points.

Courth of the dead king,
4 companys.

warriors of minas tirith 4 companys.
commander, banner.

warriors of minas tirith 4 companys.
commander, banner.

Warriors of minas tirith, 3 companys.
Bows.

2 avanger bolt throwers.

Knights of minas tirith 3 companys.
banner, shields.

I have the bolt throwers, and some army of the dead, that is why im using them. could this list work? or should i change something?

And any general advice on plaing gondor would be highly apriciated :)

Edonil
03-06-2009, 07:14
More Knights would be a good idea. They're medium cavalry, not heavy or harasser. They won't last as long as Knights of Dol Amroth, and won't be as useful out of engagement as Riders of Rohan. I would suggest dropping the banners from the infantry, and using those points to get at least another company of Knights. The bolt throwers are a good choice. As far as Court goes...dunno. I would suggest instead of taking a Legendary formation, consider Faramir- cheap and extremely effective. Rangers of Ithilien are a good choice for Legendaries, though. Ambush is fun. Welcome to the game!

Jorgen_CAB
03-06-2009, 07:58
Hi!

I have a rather successfull Gondor army and I think all the basic Gondor troops such as MT warrios, archers and knights are the best basic troops in the game becasue they have a rather high defence and low cost.

I would not agree that MT knights are medium cavalry, thay have a front defence of six and basic defence of five. I would call that heavy cavalry. Dol Amroth Knighst are rather extra heavy cavalry in this game. :)
Though, I do agree that a small formation of three knighs are not very good for flank or offensive duties, but they are rahter good as a reserve force that you keep in your backfield.

You should also try and make your MT Warrior formations as big as possible so at least 4+ depending on the size of your battle and the number of artillery your oponent usually brings. Usually it is more points efficient to have them in formations of six than four.

You should also consider to use Faramir as your leader, he is a great and cheap character. Isildur is also a rather good choice for smaller games, but I prefer Faramir.

Rangers are very usefull as well, they can also be used as Rangers of Ithilien who has the ambusher ability.

I would build my force around two formations of MT warriors, archers and at least one big
formation of knights and one formation of Rangers. That seem like a good core force to build further on.

KaldCB
03-06-2009, 08:14
Hi.

Thanks for replies, as im kind of new to how this games works. i have played 40k/fantasy for 12 years, but wargames are never similar.

So it seems that it would be better to drop the courth of the dead king, for faramir, and more MT warriors/knights and rangers?

I have only watched a 600 point game, as my gaming club is just starting to pick up on lotr again.
and at least in that game 3 companys of knights did seem to do the job. should they be bigger? or add another seperat unit of them?

Jorgen_CAB
03-06-2009, 09:16
In a 600p game a three company formation of Knights should be OK, though I would preferably use at least four companies in 750 or lower games. When you get to 1000p plus a formation of at lease 5+ would be needed.

A formation of three companies that charges a formation of six infantry companies alone will get slaghtered quite fast.

KaldCB
03-06-2009, 12:06
Okey new list.

1000 point

Aragon.

MT warriors 5 companys.
champion.

MT warriors 5 companys.
champion.

MT Archers 4 companys.

MT Knights 6 companys
shields, Banner, hornblower

2 avanger bolth throwers.


I could change to faramir, and get some banners for the warriors and maybe two companys more. I have the banner models, and faramir.

How does this list look?

Jorgen_CAB
03-06-2009, 12:42
I would probably go with Faramir in 1000p and then add Aragorn or Boromir when I go higher in points.

I would try and fit in some Rangers in 1000p as well, maybe reduce the archers to three companies and add a three company Ranger formation with a captain.

Lardidar
03-06-2009, 14:18
Ilithen rangers have so far been fantastic for me.

KaldCB
03-06-2009, 16:04
will have to look at rangers, they come in plastic so they are not that expencive.
but i feel that im starting too sink some money into this.
Have bought today.
2x warriors of MT.
2 MT command blisters
MT command box
aragon foot and mounted.
faramir, foot and mounted.

going to buy soon.

2x warriors of MT
2x knights of MT
2x army of the dead
army of the dead banner.
knight banner.
ranger box.

Already have.
9 army of the dead + king
2 avanger bolt thrower
16 warriors of gondor

Is there anything im missing? i apriciate all the advice i have got so far. :)

Jorgen_CAB
03-06-2009, 19:57
Paint on you new models perhaps... :D

You need to play with the army you have to get some experience and feel for them. You can plan for more models later.

KaldCB
03-06-2009, 20:13
Not such a bad idea :p
it's half the fun playing with painted armys.

KaldCB
04-06-2009, 18:36
well now i have bought the models that i was missing, only missing some blisters.

Anyway, i was thinking of painting. my plan was to paint them like they should be. like gw paint them, but then it hit me that metal with black robes/banners are not that great.
I have always thought that their banners where blue. is this something im just dreaming, or have there been blue banner in the film?

And how do you think Minas tirith warriors would look with blue clothing and blue shields/banners, and painting the tree symbol white?

KaldCB
08-06-2009, 20:49
Have got the first company painted.
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h283/KaldCB/Lord%20of%20the%20rings/012.jpg

More pictures of the army will come in this log.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3656353#post3656353

Angelust
09-06-2009, 02:13
Nice. Would be fun to play against.

shags_j
09-06-2009, 07:25
Gondor has the best common formations available, and plastics too.

I take the three hunters instead of aragorn on his own. I find them absolutely priceless.

Other than that you seem to be on the right track.

EDIT: BTW, I did my gondor army in a different scheme than the black. Said it's from Cair Andros etc. I say go to town with the colour scheme. Who wants to be stuck with boring silver and black on such nice models.

KaldCB
09-06-2009, 10:45
Thanks for replies.

The good common formations is what made me do a gondor army. as i actually own some elves and haridrim from some years back. but i did not like how they played now.

I bought the breaking of the fellowship today. so i might try out the three hunters one day. they look good on paper.

I did try a test model with a blue colour scheme, as black and silver can look a little dull. but i did not like it, and after wathcing the movies again i decided that i needed to do things right, and give them the proper colours :)

Kyrios
10-06-2009, 12:20
I did a few in blue and liked it! I belive that the men from the last alliance wear blue, although a very dark blue, you could go for that. Dol Amroth also uses blue for their knights, foot troops painted to match would look really nice thematicly.

KaldCB
11-06-2009, 23:38
I did think blue would look great, but it dident. maybe its just me not beeing able to pull it off, as blue and metalic should look good.

But now i have come to really like the black ones. they look exactly right. :)

KaldCB
16-06-2009, 09:15
Im having a 1000 point game today, and i bellive i will face a Harad army.

how do i handle the mumak? apart from the avanger bolt throwers?

Charge it with cavelry and Faramir using epic strike?

I was thinking of maybe even making an battle report. as there are not to many of those for wotr, but my models are not finished painted. so i will have too see how it looks.

Angelust
16-06-2009, 20:17
That'd be great!

As for the Mumak, lotsa infantry can work well, just don't let it rampage on top of you. Also, shooting can be quite effective, as almost everything should have line of sight to it.

KaldCB
17-06-2009, 07:39
Well i played my game last night. but as i forgot my camera, i will not make a full battle report.
But i can do some highlights.
My army at least outnumberd him 2:1 :) He used allot of upgrade characters in his units. but this was most as he did not have al the models he wanted.
and he did not have a mumakil.

One thing i did noticed was that avanger bolt thrower where rock hard! They killed allot of easterlings during the game and where great.

Not much to say other then large units triumps small units. even as he got off all the important charges and won all the rolls for heroic charge he still lost. he even got a rear charge with his pikemen on my knights.

Everything seemed to work for him, but he could not cut through my numbers.

by the end he was wiped to the man, while i had lost 4-5 companys.

Lesson learnt. use big formations!

Angelust
17-06-2009, 07:58
Very true! I had my friend's uber unit of Galadriel, Cirdan, and 3 companies of elves get the charge off on my moria units. First 4 companies were prowlers, who got wiped out hard, but took out about 12 elves before going down. With heroic fight, the unit charged my 4 companies of goblin archers, and then got wiped out. They killed about 6 companies of goblins, but couldn't weather through all the attacks that high numbers of disposable orcs/goblins can dish out.

What was the list you used, Kald?

KaldCB
17-06-2009, 08:41
I used this list, with the idea that your heros dont need to be good, as long as they are there to let you do: on the double, heroic charge, and the like...

epic hero.
Farmir. (great character for his points)

6 companys of knights
Shields, Banner.
(faramir goes in here)

5 companys of MT warriors.
Captain, banner, hornblower. (forgot him the entire game)

5 companys of MT warriors.
Captain, banner.

2 company of MT archers.

3 companys of rangers.

2 companys of avanger bolth throwers.

The knights did almost nothing for me this game, but they did have to deal with the pikemen most of the game.

What i bellive his list was.

Epic hero.
Suladan.

3 companys of crosairs.
shield, captain, bo'sun.

2 companys of khandish mercenarys.

3 companys of easterlings.
Pikes, captain, banner, war priest, dragon knight, drummer.

1 company easterling archer

2 watcher warbands
Bows.

Khandish charioteer.

His list differs from mine as he have much less models. but as i stated before, his list was a result of what he owns, and not what he wants. he is converting allot of easterlings with pikes now to make an heavy easterling pike army. will be fun to se how that turns out.

Nu Fenix
04-03-2010, 01:23
Some major necromancy on bringing this thread back, but I hope to keep the various tacticas in use. Especially the ones based around armies that I am tempted to play ;)

So, have any formations or heroes changed in the perspective of anyone here? Are some better then you realised? Or gone the opposite way and actually worse?

Are there any dedicated Gondor & Arnor players that feel comfortable and confident enough to do a breakdown of the army?

I've got some ideas on what I think is better then others, but having the opinion of others would help :)

EDIT: Whilst searching for something else, I found this buried even further down in the dpeths of Tactica - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196027
So, it gives me what I asked for [and even posted in it long ago...], however I would still like to know if time has changed the opinion of anything for anyone?

McLucien18
08-03-2010, 16:09
Hi,

I think one of the key points of the list is its versatility. You have:

- Some of the best value core infantry in the game with WoMT, Defence 5(7) for 25pts a company is not to be sniffed at,

- A high quantity of specialists (inc. pikemen of Dol Amroth, Guards of the Fountain Court, Rangers etc.) that allow you to tailor your force incredibly easily to what you want it to do,

- Knights of MT are again fairly well armoured cavalry for their points, while swan knights can really dish out some hurt. However I probably would not base an army around these. 1 or 2 formations are probably quite a good choice though.

- Due to the nature of WotR, Avenger Bolt Throwers are very good for their points, the sheer number of shots they can put out can sometimes be frightening.

- Finally, characters such as Faramir are very effective. He is notable - the stats and Might points for the points cost is almost too good to refuse. In larger games the others all have their uses.

It is easy to overcome its lack of magic by taking a mage from forgotten kingdoms. Sometimes high strength troops such as uruk-hai can be threatening once the battlelines meet, probably best contered by eschewing costly upgrades in command in favour of outnumbering the enemy as much as possible with your core troops

Due to the lack of WotR going on nearby, I cannot feel confident to give a complete rundown - simply not enough gametime available.

Regards :)

darkened sun
08-03-2010, 19:15
Gondor are my main good army. They are definitely very solid, the best all-round good army. Dwarves are better but more expensive and have alot less units and characters.

I base my army around 2x6 WOMT with captains. That's 400 points. Then I add in 6 KOMT with captain and 3 Grey Company. I usually toss in some archers in units of 2 or 3 and try to squeeze in a fullsize unit of 6 SKODA with captain in higher points games. Or sometimes the SKODA can replace the KOMT instead.

Some units have gone down in my estimate and some up. I used to the think that the Court of the Dead King was really good. Until I realized that you would be striking against a pretty high courage value of the character in the unit and you might not be getting a better to wound roll because of spirit grasp at all. In fact when I checked online in the rules queries section, as someone said, sometimes you could be striking against a higher value than their defense if their courage is superior to it. So the Court of the Dead King have dropped in my estimate.

A unit that I think is great is the Grey Company. They are like truly uber archers/warriors. Move 8, Strength 4, F4, C5 fight the same time as cav, longbows, 3+ shoot, 3 might, pathfinders (master), stalwart, indomitable... Oh, man. This is exactly the kind of unit you want to choose after you've chosen your standard warriors and knights and archers of minas tirith. Not only can they shoot, but they can fight and have a long move+charge distance. Plus you don't have to waste points for banners on them like you do with other legendary formations. Their special banner is OK but I wouldn't take it except in really high points game. Personally I am just using the unit of plastic rangers as proxies for them. I don't like normal rangers anyway...

Swan Knights are awesome, though expensive. I think we'll definitely see more of these once the plastic sprues come out. I already have 8 metal ones, so I should be able to get a max sized unit pretty soon. For almost twice the price of normal Knights you get +1F, S, D, C and usually some extra dice on the charge.

And then it's all standard for the epic heroes. Boromir or Aragorn for your leader (or both), Faramir is one of the best secondary heroes in the game. Prince Imrahil has a high fight value and is the most appropriate hero to lead your SKODA if you take any. Pippin is somewhat interesting (I actually have the guard of the citadel version of him). Only 1 might but his formation can re-roll courage tests which is pretty cool. Merry is very similar.

The Dunedain look decent, though the Grey Company are much better. The Dunedain are more exclusively shooty.

It's possible to take units like Osgiliath Veterans over normal WOMT. I'm not willing to pay for the points for those obligatory banners, but in high points games you'd think the unit would be a much better choice. +1F, S, gain bows, a might point, immune to terror.

One unit that looks awesome to me is the Wardens of the Keys. Defence 8 without shields! Add in an Gandalf and epic defense every turn and they'll be D10...

As for allies, Gandalf is obviously the best choice for a magic user. Galadriel is also practically as good. She's the 2nd best magic user for good with Touched by Destiny, plus epic renewal/defence/channelling. I also take Cirdan for some extra magic. He's a pretty cool cheap wizard (25 pts less than a shaman) with a 6+ save for his unit.

For allied formations it mostly depends on what units you actually have...

Xelee
08-03-2010, 20:27
Essentially, the strength of MT is in their 'common' choices, IMO.

Warriors, Knights (fielded just as lancers), Archers and Rangers are all very solid choices. I like the idea of SKODA, but find it hard to see how they can be twice as good as normal lancers. However, I intend to find out when we get new models.

The Rares, Axemen of Lossarnach excepted, do not really add much IME. Boltthrowers are very hard to position right and only really even worked for me using 'shieldwall' deployment. In the other 2/3 of deployments, they really suffered due to short range and inability to move. Even with Shieldwall deployment, either range or arc of fire (depending on whether I put them forward or back) tended to limit them. So what they have become for me is very expensive area denial that seems risky to take, given the other deployments.

The Legendaries. I love the Grey Company, but tend to think they struggle to do as much as their points in common troops, I do still take them as something different and sometimes being small is an advantage, ie combined with Aragorn. Blackroot Vale Archers can have four Companies for the same cost as three Grey Company and could be an option if you want Ambushers. The pick of the legendaries for me would be Osgiliath Veterans. You get less than their equivalent in common troops but they make it back in two ways: 1. flexibility as an anvil in defensible terrain and 2. Many monsters are even defense so their superior str, fight, and immunity to terror, not to mention 3 might to use on the 'hard to kill' table, makes them great vs monsters.

Heroes. The heroes are why I like the common choices so much over the legendaries. Faramir and Isildur (probably used to represent another minor character) are both good alternatives to paying the premium for a legendary formation and then Boromir and Aragorn are there to add punch and dominate enemy heroes.

My favourite ally is the ambushing Ent. My second favourite is either of Radagast or Gandalf the Grey.

darkened sun
08-03-2010, 22:32
Yeah, they are pretty much a Common army...

SKODA are alot more hard hitting than normal knights with the extra strength, plus extra attacks from their higher fight and special rule. They're also a bit tougher. If you get the charge with a unit of SKODA and call a heroic combat you can wipe out pretty much anything. So they cost 350 points for a max unit with captain, compared to 230 for the same for normal knights. I don't think they are not worth it at all. They're simply the best cavalry in the game... and I didn't say they were twice as good as WOMT, but for alot less than twice the price, in fact for only half than twice the price (since you have to buy captains for both), for +50% extra (350 vs 230) you get a unit that is much better in all stats. Best cav in the game.

I don't know about not giving shields to knights of minas tirith (if that was what you were suggesting? not sure) since that makes them twice as easy to kill... plus shields are only 5 points anyway. I would always take shields.

Yeah, the two handed weapon units are not much good since they are trading off their defence value for the + 1 to wound. Plus they are darned metal.... Khazad Guard are the best bet for a Good formation with two handed weapons. Those guys are insane!!

The point I tried to make about the Grey Company is that you use them as a combat unit when not shooting. Normal archery in the game isn't that great since it has less strength on the to wound table than warriors in combat, plus you can't do stuff like heroic combats (which you should do if you are going to win a combat by a big margin, the effect it will have is to double the casualties you cause). So archery slowly whittles down the enemy army over the whole course of the long game, all 8 turns. But with the Grey Company you can use them as a flanking unit with their 16" move and strength 4 etc... in other words they are an extremely versatile unit that can move fast and do almost anything well. And you can use them decisively wherever you need to... possibly adding might to your shooting roll if you needed to kill a monster or something like that. Whereas most archer units either don't have a captain or hero in them. The Grey Company are one of the best units in the game IMO.

Xelee
09-03-2010, 03:17
Darkened Sun, being 'twice as good' was not a reference to anything you wrote, it was just a general musing on the Gondor thread and referred only to the fact that the cost of the SKODA is twice that of lancers. I am not arguing that SKODA are worthless in all cases, in fact it would be odd to both do so and also post I am planning on buying them :) Personally, In bigger games where frontage is scarce, a number of units will be relatively more attractive to me.

Knights without shields, or Lancers, die twice as often only vs odd numbered str. So archery at range, and some of your CC opponents.

Given shield arcs, I have tended to find that I often did not get my shield bonus and even if I had, there is no reason for Cav to necessarily be out there being shot at long range. Crossbow and seige both do a number on the relatively fragile cav.

In melee, IME most opponents actually have had str 4 (ie Isengard, Morranan Orcs), I do like the idea of shields vs eg Goblins but like the idea of mass even more given the WOTR mechanics and the close link between model count and durability.

I wouldn't go so far as to call the Grey Company (or White Company) one of the best units in the game. Base def 5 and high cost per model ratio are their Achilles Heel and while I have found them worthwhile, they are a 'priority target' and seldom survive the game. It's probably due to my painting them White though lol.

darkened sun
09-03-2010, 03:56
SKODA are too expensive for 1500 points and below, but in 2000 points and above they are exactly the kind of unit you want. But as I said they come out to alot less than twice the price of KOMT once you actually factor in captains, and shields if you take them. I am pretty curious to see a photo of the new models, whether they are in fact alot slicker than the current ones.

I dunno, personally I would always takes shields for the knights because it's so cheap first of all, and second it's really S3 which is the norm for all armies except Dwarves and Isengard. There are units around with S4, but S3 is the standard strength value for most infantry types, - men of gondor, rohan, elves, mordor/angmar orcs, goblins, fallen realms men...

As for the Grey Company, the point I tried to make is that you can use them very aggressively because of their high move value and fighting ability, plus they strike before cav. Once you deploy them on the flank of your army they will easily defeat in CC any similar units that the opponent has on the flanks such as archers or whatever is deployed there. You can use them agressively and get flank charges; that kind of thing. Their D5 is alot better than D4 which is what Dunedain and Rangers have. So it makes them better against S4.

KaldCB
23-04-2010, 12:21
Really fun that this thread have continued without me!

I'm starting too pick up wotr again, and have dusted off my gondor army.
Played a game a couple off days ago, and won with great success, Aragon is a beast :D


Will get back too more tactical discussion soon.


I have started painting more on my army, and have finished another company.
you can find them here;

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203767

It's good too me back.