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View Full Version : What percentage of your army are Heroes and Upgrades?



Angelust
03-06-2009, 20:52
In most wargames, I usually try to take more bodies versus heroes and special units or upgrades (at least when playing more competitively). In WotR, a big draw is the way heroes can interact with the formations and affect the battle field.

However, in most of the games I've played, I've seen a lot of players taking lots of heroes and upgrades for their formations, trying to make them as versatile and bad@$$ as possible. They then subsequently get slaughtered by double or triple their number in uruk-hai or goblins.

The problem I see is this: even with special abilities, banners, captains, and the like, a casualty is usually still a casualty. A 50 pt company of elves is usually just as easy to kill as a 20 pt company of morannon orcs, though the elves obviously have major advantages. The problem is severely compounded, I think, when you start adding banners, captains, and lots of epic heroes to that expensive formation. You end up only having 80-100 "wounds" on the table, while your opponent has 180-200 "wounds" on the table. Sometimes I shake my head when I see 100+ pts of upgrades in a 120 pt formation, with a 100 pt epic hero in it. It just doesn't have the depth to absorb enough damage, which shortens the return on great heroes and upgrades.

I think I usually try to spend no more than 30% of my army on epic heroes or upgrades, and usually I take epic heroes because they add a lot of variety, rather than lots of tactical options. If I wanted a purely winning kinda force, I suppose I'd just take like a hundred companies of goblins or 70+ companies of MT warriors or something.

Question:
How much do you typically spend on epic heroes and formation upgrades? Is it about 25% of your army, 50%? Is it more for fun and flavor, or for strategic purposes?

Edonil
03-06-2009, 20:59
42.6% in my current 1500 point list. I have more banners in my army cause I take Gothmog, and banners are just a super useful thing with him. I have two heroes, four captains, and four banners, along with one drummer for my Black Guard (I had 15 points, and putting it with them seemed like a good idea), and one Fate, Tormented Steeds, for my Morgul Knights. The rest is invested in infantry, one unit of heavy cavalry, and a single Troll. I have 153 'wounds' in total in my army, with more than half of those having a defense of 7 or higher. I haven't gotten to use it, but at lower point scales, the individual components work extremely well together.

My army is designed for strategic purpose first, flavor second. Not that there isn't flavor, mind. I decided to do a Barad-dur focus with my army, so I've got a unit of Black Guards, some orcs and morannon orcs, and, because I needed the punch, a unit of Morgul Knights. I have the Dark Marshal (first character I picked up for this army) because I love his look, and Gothmog because he fits my play style nicely.

And I've seen what you talked about, with units having upgrades that aren't worth it. Two companies of Fighting Uruk-hai with a shaman...forget the shaman, just take an additional 100 points of uruk-hai, better use of the points!

Angelust
03-06-2009, 21:06
75 or so "wounds" with D7 is not too shabby I think, and I can see how Gothmog + banners can make a great combo. (Btw, I LOVE the idea of Black Guard, I just wish their models weren't metal!)

I think Evil usually has an easier solution, as you can pad your force with lots of cheap orcs or goblins to fill out the numbers, and save some points for juicy monsters and rare/legendary formations.

Edonil
03-06-2009, 21:19
At current, the Black Guard don't have models...I just used Fighting Uruk-hai. Equipment wise, they are more WYSIWYG than Morgul Uruk-hai. And I would agree that Evil has an easier time with this, although I have to say that the cheapest thing in my army per company are my Mordor Orcs with 2h weapons, at 20 points a piece. I think Gondor has a good shot at pulling it off along the Evil perspective of cheap(ish) effective troops and good solid characters, so long as you plan it right.

Angelust
03-06-2009, 21:20
I also plan on using fighting uruk warband, but I also would like to include some Isengard Uruk-Hai, and I figure it'd get confusing. Maybe paint the Mordor version differently...hm...good ideas...

Edonil
03-06-2009, 21:27
I painted mine with a darker tone of iron and grey skin, instead of the rusted iron/red skin look I'd use for Isengard. PM me if you want the full rundown on paints I used.

Jorgen_CAB
03-06-2009, 21:51
I have 38.2% in my 1500p Mordor army. (2 Banners, 6 Captains, Gothmog and Kardush)

I have 39,5% in my Gondor army (2 banners, 5 Captains, Madril & Damrod, Faramir and Boromirs model with Isildurs profile)

I find troops to be much more efficient than filling up with lots and lots of heroes and other upgrades. I try to keep it simple and rather sprinkle captains around to give me a tactical advantage than using expensive Epic Heroes.

When I go for 2000p in my Gondor army I will upgrade Boromir to his true profile. Further along I will use Gandalf the Grey as well, but that is far in the future.

Mordor will get the Witch King on a fellbeast and perhaps a Troll Chieftain and a couple of more Trolls. Later I will add a detachment of Numenoreans and Morgul Knights lead by the Dark Marshal.

In my experience troops win over quality in this game. Troops give you so many better tactical options and elements to work with. It is almost impossible to flank you and you can usually flank the opponent, even though we always play on very large battlefields to accommodate all troops and leave room for maneuver as well.

Mephaine
03-06-2009, 21:58
Just checked my Rohan/Dwarf 1250 army. I am at 34.8% (Eomer, Eorl, Deorwine, 2 Banners, 2 Shieldbearers). Seems about 1/3 of most peoples army is in heroes and upgrades. Anywho thats my thoughts at least.

Magos Saphentos
03-06-2009, 22:48
i've just checked and my 1k elves are 59.5% heroes and upgrade
and thinkin about it my 1k moria force is 97% heroes

Edonil
03-06-2009, 23:19
97% heroes? With moria? What are you, crazy? :p:wtf:

Emissary
04-06-2009, 02:24
For my Black Guard I bought 24 of my friends uruk scouts without shields and slapped the loose morannon orc shields on them. This way I was able to get away from the iconic isengard shield pattern in my mordor force.

Anyway, my regular 1,500 point army has 36.67% in heroes and upgrades right now (Amdur, Gothmog, Ringwraith, 3 heroes). I'm converting a mouth of sauron with some black numenorean bits to make a black numenorean version of Amdur for use. It's a pity I can't use him, my 4 morgul knights with knight commander and my 3 black numenoreans with a marshal in 2,000 points. It also irks me that the 4 morgul knights with knight commander and 4 black numenoreans with marshal are 5 points over the 25% limit in 1,500 point games...

I do have a troll chieftan, winged nazgul, winged witch king, 3 ringwraiths and other upgrades available, I just don't use them as often (especially since my monsters are on a streak of 4 straight 1 hit kills against them.)

Edonil
04-06-2009, 04:22
4 morgul knights with commander is over the 25% limit? huh? You've got 375 points to work with for a 1500 point game, the Knights with commander and banner are 225 points...leaves you 150 points to work with.

Sedge
04-06-2009, 08:01
In my 1000pt pure Galadrhim force I have 100 wounds and 29.5% characters. Galadrial, Elladan, Elrohir and a hero. No upgrades.

Emissary
04-06-2009, 11:09
4 morgul knights with commander is over the 25% limit? huh? You've got 375 points to work with for a 1500 point game, the Knights with commander and banner are 225 points...leaves you 150 points to work with.
No the 4 morgul knights with commander plus 4 black numenoreans with marshal are 5 points over the 25% limit. It's just a little annoying I can't have the max size units of both by 5 measly points.

Lord Asuryan
04-06-2009, 16:12
theres also the fact that more bodies fills up deployment zones VERY quickly... it's not much help when you can't maneuver.

Edonil
04-06-2009, 16:30
That's why the War of the Ring reserves rules are so important. I'm actually considering holding my Knights in reserve for a time, free up movement for the infantry, and let me get maximum use out of them. Remember, this isn't 40k- with the exception of the Maelstrom deployment you get to pick what turn they show up on, and what part of your board edge they show up on, plus they get to act as normal from there. Makes cavalry in reserve pretty scary, actually, since they can show up with a lane to a juicy target, at the double, and then charge.

And I didn't realize you were talking about the knights and their infantry counterpart Emissary...makes more sense now.

Nu Fenix
04-06-2009, 17:12
You can't At the Double on the turn you arrive as a reinforcment Edonil, so that may impact your opinion of reinforcements.

Edonil
04-06-2009, 17:15
really? Pity. Ah well, only a slight change in the planning. Still, legitimate strategy, now I just have to bait them further back...or Wings of Terror.

Marauder
04-06-2009, 19:40
You can't At the Double on the turn you arrive as a reinforcment Edonil, so that may impact your opinion of reinforcements.

You can't charge the turn you come in from reserve either.

For both my 1000pt and 1500pt Mordor I'm weighing in at about 25% epic heroes/upgrades. But this doesn't include trolls/fellbeasts/artillery - which really are a whole other category.

I think a good rule of thumb is if you are going to provide full support for a formation - make sure its a big formation!

Edonil
04-06-2009, 19:59
I thought that with Heroic Charge you could charge even when not normally able to...? Hm. Still, this is why I bring these things up on the boards- so people can tell me what I overlooked!

Angelust
04-06-2009, 20:08
Heroic charge allows you to charge first, heroic shoot allows you to shoot after moving.

Druzhag, on the other hand, can summon, move, and charge all in the same turn. Nastiness!

Edonil
04-06-2009, 20:13
Thanks for the correction on that. Makes reserves less useful, but still good nonetheless, you just have to plan it better, that's all. I definitely prefer it to the 40k system.

darthham
06-06-2009, 21:27
im most of my lists i try to have around 25-30% of upgrades and heros but in the one game i went to just under 50% i got massacred

any way thats just my veiw on it