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View Full Version : The March of the Old Saurus(tourney list, please comment)



Ragnoff
03-06-2009, 22:43
This is a list I intend to take to a Rogue Trader style tournament that's happening in a couple weeks. I say rogue trader style because I don't know if and if it's an official Rogue Trader tournament, this is the first fantasy tournament at this particular game store. They're apparently going to have some sort of composition scoring but it's not going be severe, they specifically were trying to set questions up about the Army in general so that you could not simply score down someone who beat you in order to win the meta-game. Having painted unit does score points I'm only considering my painted models, although I have a fair number of additional unpainted lizards I do not have time to get more units painted before the tournament.

I am going to be taking a lizard man army, although I have hardly played any lizard men under the new edition. Actually, I've only played about a dozen games under the new edition in the last two and half years, and fairly rusty. I just picked up the nihilism and books, and I need to use my existing painted models. I'm going to give you my list as it is, and then list other possibilities I have with the models available to me. I understand the super Slann in the temple guard unit backed by ancient sidearms with the engines of the gods is a nasty tourney list, I do not have either the state on models or painted temple guard available. I do, however, have an old one on a car sore that I recently finished, and I like the model enough I wanted to use this as my general.
So I am making a flighty army rather than a magicy army.

Characters: (total points 511)
Saurus Oldblood -- light armor and shield, Sword of the Hornet, riding a Carnosaur -- 396 points
Skink Priest -- 2x dispell scroll -- 115 points

Core Troops: (total points 993)
3x 18 Saurus Warriors -- spears, musician, standard and champion -- 246 points each
2x 10 Skink Skirmishers -- 70 points each
12 Skinks with a Kroxigor -- 115 points

Special Troops: (total points 590)
4 Terradon Riders -- 120 points
2x Stegadons -- 235 points each

Rare Troops: (total points 155)
Salamander Hunting Pack with extra skink handler -- 80 points
Salamander Hunting Pack -- 75 points

Total Points: 2249

The idea behind deployment on this is that each saurus unit and stegadon deploy on the largest open area in the middle the field with the stegadons on either side of the central saurus unit. This block of five units move forward using the great bows to take shots at enemy large units and to deliver a great deal of damage when I get to the enemies battleline. The skirmishers, skinks was kroxigor, and salamanders are the flank units. Alternatively, the skink skirmishers can screen them basic battleline if I faced an opponent with a fair amount of shooting and fast cavalry. Terradons are used either to get to a flank and clear combo charges when the saurus units charge (and thus being likely to run down anyone who chooses to flee) and hopefully early in the game to punish an opponent fast cavalry or scout unit with dropped rocks. The Carnosaur deploys on one of the two immediate flanks of the battleline usually after the enemy has deployed as it will be my 12th placement. Assuming nasty shooters like Dwarven Bolt thrower's he would hide behind terrain, otherwise his job is to invite charges from small hard units and hope that his always strike first sword will allow him to get the drop on them. This guy has survived a double chariot charge and destroyed the chariots, he is survived a dark elf on a manticore. Although far from invulnerable, he's a nice bit of power.

This does use a majority of my painted models. I could put command unit in the skinks with the crocs are, and I do have two more prosperous. However, the 32 skinks in this army plus the three command models are all painted skinks I have (setting aside the mage for the moment). So while I can redistribute the skinks I can't really increase the number of them. I do have two more kroxigor's so I could either make a big unit of skinks with kroxigors or separate the kroxigors out into a unit of their own. I have a fifth Terradon model so that unit could be larger. I also have additional saurus Warriors for each of the saurus units; they could be size 21, 25 and 26. I also have a Slann if I'm willing to feel the Slann with no temple guard, although as I said above I'm really favoring using my Carnosaur model.

I could certainly tool up the characters more if I take points from something else, or I can exchange the Carnosaur for the toad on the platter, I could add more heroes, (mostly fighting saurus heroes although I do have one other skink mage), but any of these reduces either my flanking support or my primary battleline. I found in the couple games I've had that the 18 saurus units tend to take damages they come forward because 25 strength 4 attacks are somewhat scary, but as each unit can absorb six casualties before they start losing attacks and seven before they've lost both rank bonuses they got the enemy lines with a fair amount of oomph left. They've even taken the charge of some nasty (but obviously not phenomenal) units such as Knights of the realm, monsters, and dark elf spears with an assassin.

I would love to have anyone tell me if they think this is a viable list for this tournament (obviously super cheese is super cheese and nothing but luck will help there). Suggestions on changes within my limited model selection are also appreciated, suggestions on changes that require new models would be considered for later tournaments but won't help me 10 days from now!

Nicha11
04-06-2009, 02:36
Personally i would give the oldblood Blade or Realities or Blade of Revered Tzunki.

People don't like the skinks with Kroxigors, but they have always performed well for me.
But i'm not sure twelve skinks with a Krox is going to be very useful.
Also if you have an EOTG i would use it.

Ragnoff
04-06-2009, 02:58
I only have the old stegadon models, so I would have to proxy a EOTG which would cost me tourney points. -

The 12 skinks & krox are light infantry - they took a house from scouts in one game and flank charged another. they also are a part of the 12 placement army allowing me to react with some troops after most opponents have deployed. I also had Bret, nights fail a fear charge to charge them, that worked out well! But no, they are not heavy infantry. I find them useful, but they would be one candidate to scrap to get points for other units.

I am not sure what to give up to get the list points for the EOTG if I take one or the better sword for the Oldblood, any suggestions?

Nicha11
04-06-2009, 03:44
I am not sure what to give up to get the list points for the EOTG if I take one or the better sword for the Oldblood, any suggestions?

Maybe drop one of the saurus units, and use the rest to buy another unit of Skirmishers and bulk up the other two sarus units.

happy_doctor
04-06-2009, 12:50
I think your list is solid and will provide for some challenging and really fun games!

Some observations:

-Although you don't NEED a BSB, with so many saurus warriors he will greatly augment their staying power. Your units could find themselves losing battle by one or two, a re-roll means that you'll be sticking around for a long time. A saurus BSB costs quite a lot, so maybe you could get away with a bare skink battle standard bearer...

-Oldblood: Sword of the Hornet is all he'll ever need in terms of a magic weapon, provided you keep him away from nasty fighter lords with high armour saves. If you want to save points, you could go for the Venom of the Firefly Frog and a Halberd, getting poisoned magical attacks at S6.

-Magic defense: I'd go for a dispel scroll and the diadem of power. 5 dispel dice and a scroll beat 3 dispel dice and 2 scrolls in my book.

-Skink/Kroxigor: Consider giving this unit a musician and maybe even a banner. You could drop the size to 11+krox, giving you a unit with 2 ranks, banner and movement of 6!

-Salamanders: Depending on the battlefield role you've got in store for these guys, Razordons might work better. Keeping your flanks safe from fast cavalry and the such is their specialty and you've already got your saurus spearmen to deal with ranked blocks either way.

All in all, the major change I'm suggesting is getting a bsb in your army, perhaps at the expense of some saurus warriors (dropping one unit to 12 models might do the trick) and investing in the diadem of power.

Ragnoff
04-06-2009, 13:43
I had not thought of the diadem, but you are right that he will rarely if ever be in a position to successfully cast his one spell UNLESS it is another low magic army, in which case he can just store 1 die. That is an interesting and no other cost option.

The Oldblood option, the Halberd+Venom means I have the option every fight of 2+As and 5 str5 attacks or 3+ AS and 5 Str 6 attacks, which would likely be better on the charge. All attacks are poison and magic. This is 7 points cheaper than 2+ AS and 5 ASF str5 magic attacks. If I charge things that do not have the ASF ability the first option is better, so the question is when receiving a charge from something WITHOUT ASF which is better? My concern was that without a ward save I needed to attach before the characters that can get weapons that eliminate armor saves. I don't know how often I will face such things. As a non-flyer, most flying terror mounts will decide to charge me rather than the reverse.

THe bare skink BSB is 80 points, I can get that by eliminating 1 terradon (30), Oldblood option (7), and 4 Sauraus from one unit (48). That and the leftover point would give the skin/krox unit a musician as well. the cost is one sauraus unit is more medium than heavy infantry & the Terradon unit is less robust, but the 2 remaining strong Sauraus units are more likely the stand when charged allowing stegadon flank charges (I am assuming the reduced unit will be to badly savaged from a strong charge for it to matter if they stand).

Interesting choices, thanks happy_doctor!

beaumontbrawler
04-06-2009, 17:08
If you're gonna give him VotFFF, then give him a GW instead of a halberd, as he loses shield with either (both are 2-handed), and GW gives S7.

Ragnoff
04-06-2009, 19:55
GW gives him S6, he is mounted. Although is the carnasaur is killed he would be on foot. Wonder if that is worth removing a musician or another saurus from the ranks for though.

Ragnoff
06-06-2009, 19:16
ok, dropping 1 terradon (leaving 3) the saurus champions and the extra skink handler. I also dropped 1 saurus from 1 unit, and, with most of the points gained above, added a bare skink chief BSB.

The skrox unit lost a skink to get a musician.

Additionally I replaced one of the skink priest's dispel scrolls with the diadem of power, agreeing that I won't cast much anyway I may as well have the 2 extra dispel dice.


I thought about giving the oldblood a shiny new weapon but I do not know that it is worth loosing a salmander for or a full rank off the sauruses.

Ragnoff
10-06-2009, 02:24
Well I have gotten a few test battles in with this army.

Massacre against DE with manticore and hydra, the oldblood took a chariot charge and use ASF blade to kill the chariot before crew fought. This was prior to adding the bsb and the army overall performed ok.

I then Fought Bretonnians and the lack of a BSB showed in the first version of my list was VERY painful. Never the less the main saurus units stood up to and held the lance charges. The Oldblood under performed, (rolled LOTs of 1s & 2s to hit, failed to kill the Bret. lord in the challenge) and was run down. That and a fail break text by a saurus unit at the end of the game cost me the win! Overall the salamanders and saurus units worked VERY well in both of these fights.

I then made the changes mentioned above and fought VC. My Opponent was OK but not truly skilled. Lord level vamp, 2 lvl 1 caster vamps and the hero special character that is a fighter, all but a flying lvl 1 vamp were in the BIG grave guard unit. He had several smaller core units that I assumed we going to be added to but he did not take the items that allow a vamp to raise those units beyond their starting size. The Vamp lord had a sword that allowed the immediate raising/healing of his unit for each wound he did. he had 2 night units (one blood guard or whatever their top cav. are) lots of dogs and a small banshee unit! I won with a massacre, and once again the 18 saurus units more than earned their points, doing enough wounds and having enough static CR to eliminate the starting undead smaller units in one round overrunning into the units meant to countercharge! A stegadon was able to stubborn lock down the grave guard until the lord and 2 saurus units were finally able to join, flank and kill it. THe fact that he did not get vanheals dance on any character was certainly a big help! The BSB kept the steggy and the skrox units form running more than once and certainly earned his points.

In the follow up battle with my wife's HE I saw the lord go down to a star dragon list, although he did some wounds first. I do not know that a better sword would have helped, although it is possible. The dragon went on to do a LOT of damage, but I smashed most of the rest of her army. The BSB was killed when the dragon/lord smashed his unit and ran him down. I ended with a losing draw with all the the destruction, but not killing the dragon/lord hurt.

Fighting a HE high Magic army now and this list is doing very well, outcome still in doubt but i have a definite edge after 2 full turns.

I am not going to reduce a saurus unit or remove a salamander to get points to tool up the lord, those units have performed admirably and the 6x3 saurus units ability the lose 6 figure and still start at 24 potential return attacks when charged has won engagement after engagement in these battles. The salamanders have earned their points several times over. The Skink Skirmishers have been very hit or miss however. I could drop on to get the Blade of Realities and the enchanted shield on the lord, plus a unit champion for the BSB unit. I could change both from skirmishers to 5x2 ranked units to get the Scimitar of the Sun Resplendent and the Enchanted Shield, preserving the throw away placement/redirector units but losing the skirmisher flexibility.

Thoughts?