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Edonil
04-06-2009, 04:57
Alright, so I have a specific question, and a less specific question. The less specific question is the more important one for creating conversation, so here goes- Shamans. How useful are they? And I don't mean compared to an Epic Hero- I know, Kardush, MoS, any of the Nine, and a good two or three other characters blow a regular shaman out of the water. For those of us who, for one reason or another, don't want to include such characters (for me, I'm limiting myself to one Ringwraith at 1500, and MoS or Kardush don't fit my theme at all), how useful are they? Mordor Shamans have access to Darkness, and so have tons of potential uses, but are they worth the 100 points?

At the moment, I'm looking over my 1500 point list, and I have a decision to make. I can drop a shaman from a formation who really doesn't need it, and take a Troll Chieftain, whose extra overall statline would make my one monster in my army better at both of his purposes (killing is the one I like to see happen, being a pin-cushion is the more common one, but if he draws fire from the infantry, he's still doing something). But I'm not sure, because I haven't used either.

Jorgen_CAB
04-06-2009, 10:56
In short... game wise why would you ever want to use a shaman over a Ringwraith. The Wraith only cost you 25 points extra and he is a level three caster with both Dismay and Darkness spells. Furthermore they have fight and courage value of five and are Epic Heroes so they can move between formations and be used wherever they are most needed. Two Ringwraithes are equal in value to two shamans and a captain, the only drawback are that you loose two Might point on it. But i turn you have the potential to cast up to six spells per turn and two very good special abilities as well.

If you are going for a Themed army (as you obviously are) and don't care about the balance issues of power per point then the shamans are still too expensive in my opinion.

I would at least take Kardush before a Shaman, he has Ruin spells and are a level two caster. He also have a few good Epic Actions as well. He is also not a character from the books, so you can include him without breaking your theme.

Shamans only have a resilience of one, that mean they will often be dueled and killed along with some troops. Even an Orc captain have a reasonable chance to kill a shaman in a duel and it will only cost him one Might to do so. There are allot of other fight five heroes out there that will kill them without breaking a sweat. You basically trade 25p (1 Might point) for 100p shaman. Of course they can be useful at times and there are some useful spells in the Darkness range.

Lord Asuryan
04-06-2009, 15:10
he wasn't asking about relative value... read the OP's post.

personally, I think that some of them have uses. darknes shamns can be very good-not having to worry about focus rolls can mean that you get off a lot more high focus spells. (Black DART!) unfortunately, only darkness and nature really hae much use...if there were command ones, maybe, but dismay and ruin really require too much spell synergy to be really useful with only one spell.

Nu Fenix
04-06-2009, 16:39
I think that Modor Shamans are good for Hero hunting, using either Black Dart or Black Breath, or for speeding up your army with Wings of Terror.

Plus on top of that, you are getting a point of Might which can be used by the Formation if needed, taking pressure of any other Hero within.

Marauder
04-06-2009, 18:48
Wings of Terror is amazing. Black breath and black dart are good at dealing with heroes, but the problem is you are targetting a hero who can potentially cancel your one spell per round. Wings of Terror can't be countered!

I have one orc shaman model, so I might just include him in my Morgul Rat formation (because I'll already have at least 4 other wraiths in my force, and well enough is enough!). That way he can cast wings of terror, and have the unit move 36" across the table! (courtesy of the witch king sitting in their back arc).

Nothing like losing priority but moving so fast that you can flank someone and get the charge in because they can't see you!

Edonil
04-06-2009, 19:22
Hmm...well, it seems to me that shamans can indeed be useful then. However, I'm still not sold on their point cost. At the least, I'll have to try one out, and then figure out best placement for them- a 100 point model won't be that useful in my Mordor Orcs, they die too quickly, but Morgul Rats could get excellent use out of 'em with their speed, as could Mordor Uruk-hai. Wings of Terror applied to any unit that has a decent strength and two handed weapons just sounds like fun.