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doomscape
04-06-2009, 17:48
Hi folks. Need to get a tournament army rolling and thought I'd come to the people of Warseer, once again, with my first try at a Warhammer Fantasy Vampire Counts list.

I'm a little worried about my lack of a good 'hammer' unit, though I thought the ghouls/varghulf combo charge might help act as one. I know my usual tournament scene doesn't have any VC players, so I'm relying on the element of surprise :rolleyes:

Also, it's a 2000 point tourney.

Thanks in advance!

Vampire Lord - MoDA, Summon Skeletons, Dark Acolyte, Skull Staff, Flayed Hauberk, +1 magic level

Vampire - Red Fury, Sword of Kings, Nightshroud (sits with ghouls)

Vampire - MoDA - Power Stone

Vampire - Summon Skeletons, Dark Acolyte, Helm of Command

20 Skellies with spears, FC

20 Skellies with hand weapons, shields, FC

20 ghouls with overenthusiastic cannibal leader

Chuck Wagon with balefire

Vhargulf

5 wolves

5 wolves

9 wolves

Spirit
04-06-2009, 20:43
Red fury and sword of kings is a silly combination in my opinion.

Give your lord dread knight instead of dark acolyte, then you can give the flayed hauberk to another vamp. This makes them far more reliable.

Only one of your heroes has a save and thats only 5+. Whats to stop people running at your vampires an killing them? T4 and 2w will not last long.

Youve got 7 dispell dice as it is, balefire is a waste of 100 points. My list a 2k runs with 6 dispell and no scrolls and it does fine. Vampires can weather a lot of magic without much worry.

Why 9 wolves? Drop a skeleton and make the 9 two units of 5. They are only there to distract anyway.

There isnt really much punch in this army, you have rubbish troops, rubbish saves on your vampires and one varghulf. I would drop the cart + a hero (with my above change you could give your lord the helm of command and lose the other vampire) then i would buy some grave guard or some black knights, just somethign with some punch.

Edit: Spotted another one. Don't bother with spears on skeletons. 5 extra WS2 S3 attacks at I2 over +1 save is not worth 20 points. Spears need to be 7 frontage at least and need to be combined with the staff od damnation before they are any good, even then its iffy.

doomscape
04-06-2009, 21:21
Hmm. Thanks kindly for the replies.

I'm stuck with the troops that are listed, unfortunately - the spears weren't my idea, but I'm not really able to nab + paint up 30+ skellies with hand weapons.

Black Knights are definitely something I could manage, however. Just need to find a way to convert them, the ones we have now are so...awful.

I wasn't aware the corpse cart was such rubbish! And to think it looks so good sitting there on my paint table. Damn. And I will certainly up the wolf count.

Spirit
04-06-2009, 21:35
Well what do you expect your 100 point model to do? -1 to casting isnt overly amazing and with S2 attacks and only 3 wounds, even with regeneration it is an easy target.

It cant join units so if it gets into a combat with another of your units and you lose, BOTH units have to take wounds.

And it gives your enemy an easy target for all their flaming attacks. (the varghulf isnt easy because it can hide) One firey blast and you HAVE to dispell it or give your enemy 100 vp's. If someone casts 2d6 S4 hits on any of my other units, i'll often just let them have it, 4 dead skeletons/ghouls is hardly a scratch, but 100 points of corpse cart isnt.

Im not saying they are useless, but in order to make corpse carts good you have to do some specific things with them. For example 2x balefires + staff of sorcery = effectively +3 to dispell (+4 with skull staff!) Good luck having a magic phase against that!

Or sticking it behind a unit of black knights/wraiths with the unholy lodestone makes them almost invulnerable because you raise 2 back with one casting of IoN (usually on a 3+ because i use the skull staff alot)

If you put a necromancer on the back on one it can join a unit, this effectively adds 10 models to the unit for rank purposes, making one big unit! And its attacks in this case are a good boost to the undead unit, especially if you make the whole lot ws6, now its rubbish attacks are backed up fully by ranks + standard and even if you lose combat your only losing core troops, not the cart.

Xarius
05-06-2009, 18:29
just try and ditch the wolves, simply not worth it.

Spirit
05-06-2009, 21:26
just try and ditch the wolves, simply not worth it.

Do you mean the unit of 9 or wolves in general? Because 8 point M9 flankers / march blockers / screeners are worth it in every army.

Gokamok
06-06-2009, 10:22
Spirit and I disagree on a lot of things about the VC army, so I'll just throw in a different opinion on some units, as well as a few other pointers.

In my opinion, Corpse Carts are a godsend. The Balefire upgrade is very, very good against magic heavy armies, even though I think you need 2 of them to really have an impact. The bound spell is also awesome, since it's often a "must dispel" effect for your opponent. Again, I find that having 2 Carts makes the bound spell a lot more efficient.
I always run my Corpse Carts behind my other units, so I won't have to worry about (flaming) magic missiles targeted against them.

Spears on Skeletons is a very good option from my point of view. You can still use HWS in those situations where you want the extra save, but against low armor, high kill efficiency troops (Daemons are a good example), actually getting 5 attacks back is way better than +1 save. Striking first with 10-11 WS6 skeletons is also rather nice against most opponents, so I think it's a good option spending a bit of points to make your skeletons more flexible.

Now, on to some things that Spirit and I probably don't disagree about:D

I find that Wolves should either be units of 5-6 to act as screens/ war machine hunters/ misdirectors, or units of 7, including a Doom Wolf. The unit of 7 can charge ANY single model in the game that can be challenged, and end up with 1 wolf alive after combat, thereby "trapping" the big thingie during their own movement phase so you can be absolutely sure to swamp them with zombies/skellies in your next turn.

Your vampires are built a bit odd. The guy with Red Fury would likely benefit far more from Dread Knight and Infinite Hatred, allowing you to ditch Nightshroud, or swap it for Cursed Book if you want him to fight other characters.

I think you should get Black Periapt in somewhere. At 15 points, it's simply too good to miss; maybe put it on the guy with Helm of Commandment who'll be hanging back anyway.

I'm not usually a big fan of MotBA on hero vampires, since they can't help healing the units that have been raised above starting size. You could consider giving him Sceptre de Noirot, which I have found to be very efficient at drawing out dispel dice, since people aren't too happy when you raise units of 10-12 Zombies on a 5+;)

You'll want magic standards on your skeletons, since the ability to get those is one of their main advantages over Ghouls. Hellfire Banner on the spears and War Banner on the HWS unit would seem like good options.

Since you can't raise the Ghouls above starting size, I think you'd be better of running them in 2 units of 10 with a champion in each, and then use them as flank support for your skeletons, or alternately using one unit as a bunker for your caster Vampires while using the other as flank support.

Your magic phase has 14 power dice, 8 of which can be cast with the Skull Staff. I think you'd be better off by starting with smaller units of skeletons (12 in each unit or so) and then spend the points left over on magic standards and another Corpse Cart, maybe with an Unholy Lodestone to help you raise even faster.

I'll throw in some comments on Grave Guards/Black Knights whenever you post a build that includes them, since including those will definitely mean removing other elements of the army.

kalleha
07-06-2009, 04:24
Black Knights are definitely something I could manage, however. Just need to find a way to convert them, the ones we have now are so...awful.

I played vampire counts back when you could still have a blood dragon army (I've been told you can't do this any longer) and had to come up with four units of black knights. So in addition to having an army of flimsy looking cavalry I also had the prospect of buying some $300 worth of blisters.

So to save face (and money) I ended up getting the boxed sets of empire knights and simply painting them to appear ethereal (to great success I might add - drybrushing makes anybody look pro).