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gumbio
05-06-2009, 03:20
i can never kill the slann wit my dwarfs my opponent always makes him only hit by magical attacks. and i cant kill him in close combat because of temple guard and there stubborn and wat not.and i can never avoid it cause he just channels his magic. wat do i do

Asmodai48
05-06-2009, 03:25
i can never kill the slann wit my dwarfs my opponent always makes him only hit by magical attacks. and i cant kill him in close combat because of temple guard and there stubborn and wat not.and i can never avoid it cause he just channels his magic. wat do i do

How does him being only affected by magic attacks affect you much? Runes??? plus you can easily get strong magic defence if you want. Hammerers with a lord/hero should be able to take his temple gaurd/slann.

pfishy98
05-06-2009, 03:44
anvil of doom has magic attacks i think. could be wrong tho. ya never know what GW will forget to put in the rules. non-flaming fireballs for example ;)

famehunter
05-06-2009, 03:44
you can still win a combat even though you dont actually cause any wounds "hint" "hint" ;)

pfishy98
05-06-2009, 03:45
you can still win a combat even though you dont actually cause any wounds "hint" "hint" ;)

u can? how?

Horus38
05-06-2009, 04:07
u can? how?

LOL, wow, prepare to be amazed my friend: combat resolution. Also known as +3 for ranks, +1 for banner, +1 for battle standard, +1 for outnumbering, +1 for flank, etc.

famehunter
05-06-2009, 04:14
You get +1 combat resolution for outnumbering, +1 for flanking, +2 for a rear attack, +1 with a standard, a further +1 with a rune of battle, another further +1 with a bsb in range and from +1 to +3 for each rank of 5 beyond the first.

Add this all up and there are good chances you still win the combat even without causing a single wound. Then if the enemy breaks, you got a chance to easily destroy it with your pursue move.

pfishy98
05-06-2009, 04:19
LOL, wow, prepare to be amazed my friend: combat resolution. Also known as +3 for ranks, +1 for banner, +1 for battle standard, +1 for outnumbering, +1 for flank, etc.

yes i know that, but temple guard and slann will have equal or better static res and they will rape u in combat, so if you do win, it wont be by much. and if you dont cause any wounds, you probablay wont last long in that combat. you cant count on winning a uber unit vs. uber unit combat on static combat resolution.

famehunter
05-06-2009, 04:28
Trying to help you there.
I dont know much about the slann special items but I assume that the imunity only applies to the mage itself and not his guards. So killing theese guards will earn you combat resolution. Then, you can always place a hero or even a lord in one of your units and equip him with a magic weapon.

Troah
05-06-2009, 04:31
If the BSB is in the same unit and is in combat and wounds someone you get an additional +1.

P.S. I use Slann, mine dies kinda easy when charged by 1/3 of his army.

Gork or Possibly Mork
05-06-2009, 04:33
i can never kill the slann wit my dwarfs my opponent always makes him only hit by magical attacks. and i cant kill him in close combat because of temple guard and there stubborn and wat not.and i can never avoid it cause he just channels his magic. wat do i do


Here's a little secret. You won't kill his Slann about 99% of the time.


So instead bring plenty magic defence and shooty death warmachines, Organguns, bolt throwers, grudge throwers, cannons etc.

How do you feel about the gyrocopter or miners? You could march block his big blocks and it will give you more time to shoot the crap out of them.

Thats the key to your sucess. Sit back and shoot the crap out of them while taking few magic casualties ( because you have good defense ) By the time reach your line they are so weakened it's hard to win combat.

So Yeah don't count on killing the Slann but try to kill everything else around him.

Jetty Smurf
05-06-2009, 05:32
Warmachines vs the Slann:

A rune placed on a warmachine gives it magical attacks. Thereby making his immunity to mundane attacks useless.

For 5 points you can put a flaming rune (forget the name) on your warmachines (cannons and boltthrowers at least) which makes them flaming. Thereby making is Regen completely useless.

I assume these 2 are what is making his slann difficult to kill? But all in all, it SHOULD take more than 200 pts of your army to kill his 400 pt lord. Would it honestly be fair any other way?

ivrg
05-06-2009, 06:19
To me the power that makes the slann only vulnerable to magic weapons is the most powerfull. Ofc an additional power dice is also superb. But an invulnerable slann in a tenple guard reg is fearsome.

dsw1
05-06-2009, 09:28
To me the power that makes the slann only vulnerable to magic weapons is the most powerfull. Ofc an additional power dice is also superb. But an invulnerable slann in a tenple guard reg is fearsome.

Especially if the slann causes terror too ;).

My advice would be Organ gun, Organ gun, cannon cannon :D. The Organ gun will mow down most of the temple guard and magical cannons can really put a dent in a slann. If you want to hold the Temple guard still so you can flank them, take a Dwarf lord in hammerers (stubborn ld9/10?) and give them a rune of determination. After that send in a unit of your choice to the flank to knock off his Rank bonuses (and HW & shield bonus for the unit in the flank) you shouldn't have a problem :).

Just be careful though as his unit is Stubborn at LD9 so the chances of them running are slim.

Lord Khabal
05-06-2009, 09:35
Slim? Try almost zero!

Ld9 stubborn = 11,1% chances
Ld9 stubborn + BSB (reroll) = 1,2% chances

so its literally 1 IN 100!!!!

urien
05-06-2009, 10:21
Slim? Try almost zero!

Ld9 stubborn = 11,1% chances
Ld9 stubborn + BSB (reroll) = 1,2% chances

so its literally 1 IN 100!!!!

temple guards are 8 ld, so chances are a little better, but still that mad hamster is a **** to break with his bodyguards.

PeG
05-06-2009, 11:11
Use runes and you will be OK but probably he will have better targets to focus on. Either shoot him with flaming cannons/bolts aim at the Slann with the hope that he fails his look out sir. If he doesnt at least you will kill TG and make them easier to handle in close combat.

Once you have reduced his rank bonuses you can take him in combat. Hit him with something with as good armour saves as possible to minimize losses and beat him by CR. Dwarfs also have runes that will help you with extra CR.

Eulogy2
05-06-2009, 12:58
temple guards are 8 ld, so chances are a little better, but still that mad hamster is a **** to break with his bodyguards.

but the slann in the unit is LD 9...

Malorian
05-06-2009, 13:05
Here's a nice trick:

Anvil+miners+a joined character or two (rune of brotherhood) = bad news for temple guard flank/rear.


The best thing is that this can be cheaper (point wise) than the slann/temple guard unit :D And meanwhile the 3 DD from the runelord/anvil always helps and he can use his anvil on other stuff later.


Example:

Runelord w/ anvil (315)
thane w/ rune of brother hood, rune of cleaving, rune of snorri, shield (132)
thane w/ rune of brother hood, rune of cleaving, rune of fury, shield (132)
20 miners w/ full command (245) (could also add the steamdrill to be safer)

Total: 692 with 1 thane, 824 with both

Most slann/temple guard units are around 700-800 points.


Finally just take an oath stone if you are worried about counter charges.

Alltaken
05-06-2009, 17:54
Actually a slann can get WS of 2+ against shooting.
I for one woulnd't count on killing the slann, but try. I mean he will use lore of metal, stoping a cannon a turn with some luck. Destryoing any iron breakers. So try gyrocopters, crossbows. Go for gun line as much as possible. You have to be shure he can't stop all cannons all time, meaning the odds are hell throw terradons and maybe cameleon skinks at you. A skink chief with that evil bow x3 multiple shot S5 is designed to shoot crewmen

Gaargod
05-06-2009, 18:59
Sigh, odds of breaking TG are quite a lot slimmer than that. They're coldblooded remember

Therefore (i hate doing 3 dimensional probability tables, so this may not be precisely right)

Ld8 on 3 dice requires (order does matter):
466,646,664
566,656,665
666
555
556,565,655

So 11/216 (i think). But its rerollable, so need this twice in a row, so 121/46656 = 0.00260 or 0.26%

Which isn't exactly huge odds....

Basically, don't expect them to flee. They usually have Static combat res 7 as well, with T4 WS4 and 2+ armour save in combat, so its not even that easy to beat them up in the first place. 2 S4 attacks doesn't hurt either.

As the Slann has a 2+ look out sir and a 4+ ward and 5 wounds, i usually just don't bother giving mine any other protection, he's just not going to need it...

Way to deal with him is taking a solid magic defense to ignore most of his spells (2-3 smiths with runes of 'its a scroll' should deal with him). Then shoot and marchblock his unit till you get about half victory points.

Mind you, if he gets 1st turn and has Sun Standard (-1 to hit at long range, -2 in short range), i'd just give it up entirely and shoot the rest of his army to death.

You have to be really, really hitty to beat it up sufficiently to get points from it in combat.

Malorian
05-06-2009, 19:31
Just shoot the unit with cannons to knock off a rank or two and hit it with that miner unit.

Once the TG are all dead (may take most of the game but is very possible) the slann will break for sure.

Rockgut
05-06-2009, 20:36
but the slann in the unit is LD 9...


Which they would test on if there is no negative combat res. If there is, they test on their own leadership of 8 for Stubborn. Maybe that is what was meant.

kardar233
05-06-2009, 20:59
Yeah, that needs to be FAQ'd. I think that the ruling should be that they use the Slann's Ld, counting it as stubborn.

Just my bias though, as I'm looking for more all-infantry armies.

Malorian
05-06-2009, 21:19
No faq needed.

You're just biased ;)

Witchblade
05-06-2009, 22:44
I'd aim your cannons at his stegadons and salamanders rather than at the nigh unhittable slann.

Shiodome
05-06-2009, 22:54
shoot the temple guard down to 50% and be happy with half VP's, then concentrate on killing everything else.

Necromancy Black
05-06-2009, 23:38
Against my Slann is there to draw firepower. If it's shooting my Slann, it's not shooting my Salamanders, COR or Saurus units.

My Salamanders have proven fantastic against Dwarfs. Template attacks with -3 to AS hurts, even if I need 5's to wound. Better yet, charge at dwarf warmachines: 4's to hit, 3's to wound they won't get a save then if they loose they'll be outnumbered by fear causes, getting past their stubborn and making them run.

If the Slann's with a unit, blow that unit away, don't really worry about the Slann unless he's in a very small unit and you can charge with a large block unit.

Also, Slann's arn't that fast. If you use a gyrocopter to march block him you can spend some time killing of the COR or Stegs instead. Last game of 200 points vs Dwarfs my COR (5, banner, musician plus scar-vet) got over 900 VP by themselves :D

rolly_321
07-06-2009, 10:18
Most simple option to me would be a few cannons with some cheap rune. By by Mr Slan.

With dwarfs' ability for such a large amount of magic artillery i would have thought a slann would be at the disadvantage.

Gork or Possibly Mork
07-06-2009, 10:36
Most simple option to me would be a few cannons with some cheap rune. By by Mr Slan.

With dwarfs' ability for such a large amount of magic artillery i would have thought a slann would be at the disadvantage.

Not really. If the Slann is in a unit he gets a look out sir. Now that doesn't stop you from tearing up the unit and combo charging it later but don't count on killing the Slann. It's often more effective to target expensive support units otherwise you could spend all game trying to go after the Slann and or TG and not really get much done. Killing the Slann and or the unit he's with is hit or miss. Killing other support will often net you much more VP's than trying the all or nothing approach of trying to get the Slann and or his unit.

fishound7
07-06-2009, 10:43
Just take solid magic defense and march block the unit. Destroy the rest of his army. Let the magic missles hit your dwarves and stop the scarry stuff. The slann is just annoying thats all. Properly gear you blocks for high static combat rez and you'll be fine.

Atzcapotzalco
07-06-2009, 12:47
11/216 is correct for LD9 coldblooded, which is superior to leadership 10. In combat they're only LD8 stubborn, which gives you another 12 chances to fail (roughly equivalent to LD 9.5 on 2 dice). You still won't see them run often.

Gonzoyola
08-06-2009, 03:40
A unit that eats a BK + Varghulf charge and lasts for 3 more whole turns is one bar short of invincible in my list. Insane rolls are all that kept my Blood Knights in the game long enough to be able to kill that unit. Thank god for Summon horde and constant 1d 6+s on healing blood Knights and the rest of my army. not to mention i run a power list against them which leaves me extremely strapped for dice.


All in all moral of this post: run 12 S7 attacks with 2+ armour into that unit, and pray that the dice gods have mercy on your soul

Necromancy Black
08-06-2009, 03:49
Most simple option to me would be a few cannons with some cheap rune. By by Mr Slan.

With dwarfs' ability for such a large amount of magic artillery i would have thought a slann would be at the disadvantage.

Regeneration, 2+ ward save against ranged attacks...you have fun shooting at him while Terradons, Cold ones and Stegadons are running around the place.


Just take solid magic defense and march block the unit. Destroy the rest of his army. Let the magic missles hit your dwarves and stop the scarry stuff. The slann is just annoying thats all. Properly gear you blocks for high static combat rez and you'll be fine.

Against dwarfs I never use Magic Missiles. Spirit of the Forge is as close as it gets. Rule of burning Iron quickly kills of dwarf characters before they get into combat. Hell, Banehead onto the BSB is a fantastic way of killing them in one turn. Then I mostly pump out rerolls from the skinks plus Transmutation of Lead. That's how you make sure dwarfs die.

And if a Slann goes into a unit of TG that Slann is very likely to have the War Drums, meaning you can't march block it at all. By themselves march blocking Slanns isn't that affective at all.

Also not annoying, he's more then that. Ld 9 and BSB at once, he keeps my entire army from running away better then dwarfs can manage. Target the right things and the damage output he can do is impressive, but as I said he's best used for supporting other units when it comes to dwarfs. His direct damage abilities are best left for things like humans and elves.

xpo50
07-07-2009, 03:12
You get +1 combat resolution for outnumbering, +1 for flanking, +2 for a rear attack, +1 with a standard, a further +1 with a rune of battle, another further +1 with a bsb in range and from +1 to +3 for each rank of 5 beyond the first.

Add this all up and there are good chances you still win the combat even without causing a single wound. Then if the enemy breaks, you got a chance to easily destroy it with your pursue move.
It doesnt really matter since Temple guard have good leadership and are stubborn, so i doubt they will break often especially if a BSB is nearby